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Montreal trades for Parros ---get Thornton some help already

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Old
07-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
More likely that that bit of motivation didn't resonate with him that time. Otherwise, he'd have registered a zero or two in the games in between when his role was to hit less, and Scott theoretically would have neutered the team after KO'ing Thornton.

In reality, Lucic already started not hitting against the Sabres after the Miller incident, and the connection is far more likely that he gives consideration to retribution from the league in those games.
If you had watched that game vs Buffalo, or any vs the leafs last season, you'd have noticed how different the Bs look when real heavies are around. Its clear to see. They don't play their game.

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07-16-2013, 01:26 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Shoebottom View Post
If you had watched that game vs Buffalo, or any vs the leafs last season, you'd have noticed how different the Bs look when real heavies are around. Its clear to see. They don't play their game.
Thornton, Lucic and Chara 15 combined fights...

2 vs Buffalo or Toronto....The Bruins did have a couple 3 fight games....vs noted tough guy teams Washington and Carolina...

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07-16-2013, 01:28 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Shoebottom View Post
If you had watched that game vs Buffalo, or any vs the leafs last season, you'd have noticed how different the Bs look when real heavies are around. Its clear to see. They don't play their game.
Where your theory has massive John Scott sized holes:

1. I watched almost every game this season like every other.

2. The Bruins don't play their game quite often in the regular season, there's threads about it constantly, and the reason differs depending on who the perceived culprits are that week, whether it be Julien, Horton, Seguin, Krejci, Lucic, and generally it has nothing to do with heavies, it's our top line played their game whenever they felt like it. Lucic didn't play his game for large swaths of last season, whether it was Carolina or Montreal or Buffalo or Toronto.

In fact, in the regular season, the Bruins were 3-1 against the Leafs, and their game 4-6.5 lull had nothing to do with the presence of Orr/McLaren.

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07-16-2013, 01:29 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
If I'm a team playing the Bruins, the last thing that's going to get me not to extract retribution from Lucic, Marchand, or Chara is heavy on heavy staged loving.

Our issue with the Sabres isn't John Scott, it's Kaleta and Brave Steve.

Take Cooke, ends Savard's career. Thornton punches him into oblivion, a few years later, he's boarding McQuaid. Enforcers don't enforce, they entertain. The best teams actually learn this fairly quickly.
Its not "heavy on heavy". Its simple math: if our heavy occupies their heavy, there aren't any heavies left to run Chara or annoy Lucic or pick on Marchand. Plus it would be nice to have more hitting coming from somewhere else than only Lucic & Boychuk. Peluso would be great. Plus, whats wrong with a little entertainment? You make it sound like its a bad thing. We're talking about a 13th forward. Would you rather watch Pandolfo or Peluso play 4 min/gm? Or would you rather waste Spooner on these shifts?

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07-16-2013, 01:31 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
More hyperbole as you love to say...

Did you watch those games? Thornton and Campbell getting destroyed in fights weren't the only things going on...Stafford elbow on Dougie? Khudobin knocked over a half dozen times...Scott elbow on Paille...Scott on Pervws...Ott and Kaleta taking turns on kill shots with Krejci..over and over...those kinda things
You're pretty good in the hyperbole department as well.

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07-16-2013, 01:32 PM
  #256
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Yup, Kaleta took a nasty, kill-shot run at Krejci that could have *easily* been a concussion and the end of any thoughts of a Cup run for the Bruins.

But that's OK, there weren't any bloody limbs left on the ice, so Kaleta can do as he wishes.

btw: once again, here is how you deal with Kaleta. He was aaaawful quiet vs. the Leafs after that. And here is how the Bruins 'deal' with Kaleta..




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07-16-2013, 01:36 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by QC View Post
You're pretty good in the hyperbole department as well.
Did you even watch the game in question? Kaleta could have very, very easily killed Krejci's season with another late Buffalo-cheap-shot concussion (if you are old enough to remember the Adam Mair one).

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07-16-2013, 01:38 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by QC View Post
You're pretty good in the hyperbole department as well.
Hahah guilty as charged...

Still there is nothing untrue there... Watch the games, or maybe there are highlights on the Dafoomie channel...

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07-16-2013, 01:39 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
Did you even watch the game in question? Kaleta could have very, very easily killed Krejci's season with another late Buffalo-cheap-shot concussion (if you are old enough to remember the Adam Mair one).
And Patrick Kaleta just started doing that once John Scott got there?

And Matt Cooke stopped taking runs at the Bruins when Thornton pummeled him?

I would imagine Kaleta was very quiet against the Leafs after that, they didn't play each other again.

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07-16-2013, 01:40 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Where your theory has massive John Scott sized holes:

1. I watched almost every game this season like every other.

2. The Bruins don't play their game quite often in the regular season, there's threads about it constantly, and the reason differs depending on who the perceived culprits are that week, whether it be Julien, Horton, Seguin, Krejci, Lucic, and generally it has nothing to do with heavies, it's our top line played their game whenever they felt like it. Lucic didn't play his game for large swaths of last season, whether it was Carolina or Montreal or Buffalo or Toronto.

In fact, in the regular season, the Bruins were 3-1 against the Leafs, and their game 4-6.5 lull had nothing to do with the presence of Orr/McLaren.
1. Then You must have noticed how docile the Bs were in the games I'm referring to.

2.I'm not talking about records here. I'm talking about what they look like out there. And most everyone could tell that the Bs didn't want to rock the boat vs these teams with heavies. They might have won them but not with dignity. Do you think the Bs would've lost those games with Peluso in the game instead of Pandolfo or Bourque? Of course not, it doesn't make a difference. But it would be nice to win and leave the building with heads up, not cowering.

And I'm not talking about playoffs obviously, just the long hard regular season.

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07-16-2013, 01:41 PM
  #261
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See that is what I am saying The Leafs have TWO HWs. Watch that video. Mclaren occupied Scott while Orr took care of the pest Kaleta.

The team needs another HW. It is asinine to think other teams won't take advantage of the fact that the Bruins only have Thornton this year.

I wanted the Bs to pursue Orr

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07-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Shoebottom View Post
Its not "heavy on heavy". Its simple math: if our heavy occupies their heavy, there aren't any heavies left to run Chara or annoy Lucic or pick on Marchand. Plus it would be nice to have more hitting coming from somewhere else than only Lucic & Boychuk. Peluso would be great. Plus, whats wrong with a little entertainment? You make it sound like its a bad thing. We're talking about a 13th forward. Would you rather watch Pandolfo or Peluso play 4 min/gm? Or would you rather waste Spooner on these shifts?
So if your game plan is to run Lucic, Chara, Marchand with your heavy...why would 5 minutes of punching put a stop to it? If it was sooooo effective, would you come right back out and continue...I mean, even if you get into that 2nd fight (more staged occupying), what are you losing? 4 minutes of quality ice time from your heavy?

In fact, if your game plan was to do those things to Lucic, Chara, and Marchand....why would you waste your time with Thornton or Peluso? Frankly, you wouldn't even put your heavy on the ice with them.

Mutually Assured Destruction works when you respond to threats against your best, with threats against theirs. The response to Kaleta running Krejci isn't going after John Scott, it's going after Vanek. Unless you stop and consider that Kaleta is only going after Krejci because maybe Lucic went after Miller.

Lastly, Marchand was able to prove his worth at the NHL level from a regular shift on the 4th line, and he's been massively valuable since, so yeah, I rather give that shift to guys who can prove their worth than guys who can't play.

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07-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #263
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Right after Scott hammered Thornton, Stafoord went Cooke on Hamilton who dodged it by a hair.

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07-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Shoebottom View Post
1. Then You must have noticed how docile the Bs were in the games I'm referring to.

2.I'm not talking about records here. I'm talking about what they look like out there. And most everyone could tell that the Bs didn't want to rock the boat vs these teams with heavies. They might have won them but not with dignity. Do you think the Bs would've lost those games with Peluso in the game instead of Pandolfo or Bourque? Of course not, it doesn't make a difference. But it would be nice to win and leave the building with heads up, not cowering.

And I'm not talking about playoffs obviously, just the long hard regular season.
Won with dignity. I've heard it all now.

It's not how, it's how many.

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07-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #265
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Kaleta made dirty plays, among a few other players, no question. But I didn't see attempted murder, over and over. I didn't see spinelessness and cowardice. I saw a team attempt to take us off our game by rough and/or dirty play... in a small sample. And Campbell losing a fight = red flag? I love Campbell to death, but he has never been a feared fighter.
Sorry folks, but I'm afraid that our players may lose a fight occasionally. We still managed to make it to the cup, and its because of our toughness, grit, fearlessness, and camaraderie. Our guys have each other's back 9 times out of 10.

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07-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
And Patrick Kaleta just started doing that once John Scott got there?

And Matt Cooke stopped taking runs at the Bruins when Thornton pummeled him?

I would imagine Kaleta was very quiet against the Leafs after that, they didn't play each other again.
No, but he was "braver" than ever last year with Scott as team bodyguard.


I've never seen him play as stupid as last year and he certainly has never run Krejci like that before.

That is a few times you have said that Thornton "pummeled" Cooke --he did nothing of the sort. Very disappointing fight from Thornton, who got the edge, but didn't do any damage at all. He should have Evander Kane'd him.

I think you know that I meant the rest of the game (which I watched in entirety) --he came out in the game in full-blown-cheap-ass Kaleta mode and was quiet as a church mouse after that.

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07-16-2013, 01:54 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
No, but he was "braver" than ever last year with Scott as team bodyguard.


I've never seen him play as stupid as last year and he certainly has never run Krejci like that before.

That is a few times you have said that Thornton "pummeled" Cooke --he did nothing of the sort. Very disappointing fight from Thornton, who got the edge, but didn't do any damage at all. He should have Evander Kane'd him.

I think you know that I meant the rest of the game (which I watched in entirety) --he came out in the game in full-blown-cheap-ass Kaleta mode and was quiet as a church mouse after that.
We're not going to convince either other on this topic, Kaleta has been a punk his entire career.

Which game of the season were all of these hits in?

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07-16-2013, 01:55 PM
  #268
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Won with dignity. I've heard it all now.

It's not how, it's how many.
So your pride doesn't take a hit when you turn down a fight in front of thousands of fans who think you're tough? I think it does. You might think its stupid, but its human nature.

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07-16-2013, 01:56 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Bi Coastal Bawse View Post
See that is what I am saying The Leafs have TWO HWs. Watch that video. Mclaren occupied Scott while Orr took care of the pest Kaleta.

The team needs another HW. It is asinine to think other teams won't take advantage of the fact that the Bruins only have Thornton this year.

I wanted the Bs to pursue Orr
And the Bruins have TWO Stanley Cup Finals appearances in 3 years.

Toronto has 2 in....48 years?

I'm kidding to an extent, but I'll take the playoff success every time. I spent decades watching the Bruins win the fights but lose the games.

Listen, if the B's add Peluso or someone as a 13th forward, fantastic. I do believe team toughness is a factor, I just don't believe that goon-ism is as much of a factor as some are making it out to be.

But it's a fun discussion for a hot July day when I should be working!

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07-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
Did you even watch the game in question? Kaleta could have very, very easily killed Krejci's season with another late Buffalo-cheap-shot concussion (if you are old enough to remember the Adam Mair one).
Yes Colt, I watched the games. I wasn't denying Kaleta's dirty play, I'm just trying to put things into perspective here. The guy is a dirtbag against every team, he didn't run Krejci because he thought we were pansies with no backbone. We have a pretty good track record when it comes to toughness and grit. I'm really curious as to why we suddenly are harping on a couple of Buffalo games. We have a well-deserved and universal reputation as a team that plays on that edge, and we have a similar rep in the discipline department. Most teams envy that status.

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07-16-2013, 01:59 PM
  #271
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Right after Scott hammered Thornton, Stafoord went Cooke on Hamilton who dodged it by a hair.
Yeah, I think that happened really quickly, and nobody on the ice took exception to it including the officials.

I can't be convinced that Stafford calculatingly told himself that the Bruins had no goons on the bench before deciding to throw that elbow out.

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07-16-2013, 01:59 PM
  #272
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Best example are the leafs two seasons ago and last year. The team played much bigger and tougher with Orr & McLaren in the line up.

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07-16-2013, 02:01 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Won with dignity. I've heard it all now.
Personally, I wouldn't use that term but I think I know where he is going with this.

We were a MAJOR headcase team --a "Jekylle and Hyde" team last year and it cost us poor playoff positioning that almost got us bounced in round 1.

Hmmm, we were used to being the toughest guys in the division by a long-shot, we are known as the 'Big, Bad Bruins' and yet here we are often getting completely away from *our game* and cowering at times to two of our biggest, hated divisional rivals.

No **** we had an identity crisis --J&H for a reason.

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07-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #274
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Yes Colt, I watched the games. I wasn't denying Kaleta's dirty play, I'm just trying to put things into perspective here. The guy is a dirtbag against every team, he didn't run Krejci because he thought we were pansies with no backbone. We have a pretty good track record when it comes to toughness and grit. I'm really curious as to why we suddenly are harping on a couple of Buffalo games. We have a well-deserved and universal reputation as a team that plays on that edge, and we have a similar rep in the discipline department. Most teams envy that status.
Thats the whole point that we have that reputation, but it goes out the window when we face a team with real heavies. Hypocrisy at its best.

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07-16-2013, 02:08 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
Personally, I wouldn't use that term but I think I know where he is going with this.

We were a MAJOR headcase team --a "Jekylle and Hyde" team last year and it cost us poor playoff positioning that almost got us bounced in round 1.

Hmmm, we were used to being the toughest guys in the division by a long-shot, we are known as the 'Big, Bad Bruins' and yet here we are often getting completely away from *our game* and cowering at times to two of our biggest, hated divisional rivals.

No **** we had an identity crisis --J&H for a reason.
They were a major headcase team each of the last 4 seasons. There was nothing new last year at all really.

Go back and look at the Sabres games last season. After the Campbell/Kaleta fight (which I believe Campbell lost) the Sabres' list of penalties was:

Slashing
Cross-Checking (Sulzer)
Tripping
Smothering the Puck
Diving
Holding
Slashing
Closing Hand on the Puck

Doesn't strike me as a team that has neutered their opponent and is now willing to play bigger and stretch the boundaries of the rules.

What it does strike me is a team who spent their entire offseason last year hearing about how they did nothing in response to Lucic burying their star, and came out with something to prove in their first meeting...and then went back to being the nothing team they are.

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