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Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #76
WhiskeySeven
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PK doesn't have attitude problems. Jacques Martin, Gauthier and Bergevin have attitude problems.

The lockerroom of Jacques Martin, where Scott Gomez got 20min/game was the problem, not PK. Bergevin pooping out extensions onto abhorrent scrubs is the problem, not PK.

Price getting a crazy expensive contract with very little to show for it is the problem, not PK. Hell, I'm a Price fan and I think that PK deserved a better deal than him. PK's gotten farther in the playoffs, won more individual accolades and exhibits much more mental strength.

PK's our superstar, Bergevin should've never jerked him around and now we'll pay for it through the nose.

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07-16-2013, 12:34 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
PK doesn't have attitude problems. Jacques Martin, Gauthier and Bergevin have attitude problems.

The lockerroom of Jacques Martin, where Scott Gomez got 20min/game was the problem, not PK. Bergevin pooping out extensions onto abhorrent scrubs is the problem, not PK.

Price getting a crazy expensive contract with very little to show for it is the problem, not PK. Hell, I'm a Price fan and I think that PK deserved a better deal than him. PK's gotten farther in the playoffs, won more individual accolades and exhibits much more mental strength.

PK's our superstar, Bergevin should've never jerked him around and now we'll pay for it through the nose.
Fully agree. Example of attitude problem would be Georges and gio talking smack to the media about his teammate. Thats an attitude problem from scrubs like those two who at this point are dime a dozen.

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07-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

It's a crap excuse the supporters of this deal cling on to because they have no other reason to really back it up with otherwise.
That's a pretty arrogant statement. PK is pretty much my favorite player but I wouldn't have wanted him signed to a 6-7 plus million dollar longterm deal before last season, I don't buy that they could have locked him up for 5 million either.

Obviously I am not a fan of these long term deals that pay the player on future potential, look at how bad Price gets reamed over the coals, and guys like Tyler Myers etc. I knew PK was going to be a superstar and he would get paid like it one day, and he just proved that he is worth it.

All I know is I was happy with the deal at the time and still happy because Subban won a Norris and we know he earned big money. Too many chicken littles here that think this is going to become a problem because as it has been shown time and time again, the salary cap can be managed in one way or another.

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07-16-2013, 01:16 PM
  #79
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Pk would of signed a long term deal of 5 milly per depending on term easly last year. You can easily assume that given he accepted under 4. He had no reason to demand 6+ last year. But 5.5×5years he would accepted in heartbeat.

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07-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
There have been no mention of cliques since Gainey blew up the team in 2009. And I seem to recall at the time one of the big reasons was that he wanted to change the culture of the team. So Gainey probably deserves more credit than Bergevin for that.
I heard rumblings that Gomez and a few players were at odds. Cammy was a bit of a ***** to so there was that as well. Ultimately I don't think you are giving enough credit to Marc and Michel for the work they did this year. I though 24CH did a good job of showing this.

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07-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #81
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Paying 7-8M per season to a Norris Trophy winner should not be a problem for any team.
Paying 3.9M for scum like Gorges should be what rubs people here the wrong way.

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07-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
it has been shown time and time again, the salary cap can be managed in one way or another.
Yea by hustling players to sign hometown discounts, front loaded 20 year contracts, buying out other players and losing valuable depth which is not always easy to replace (aka trade for new depth ar high premiums at trade deadline). All options i would rather avoid. One option which is not doable under new cba too.

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07-16-2013, 01:22 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Pk would of signed a long term deal of 5 milly per depending on term easly last year. You can easily assume that given he accepted under 4. He had no reason to demand 6+ last year. But 5.5×5years he would accepted in heartbeat.
I thought the rumours were he was looking for Doughty money which is a 7m caphit. Knowing PK and what he thinks he has potential for, I doubt he would have settled for 5-5.5 on a long term deal.

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07-16-2013, 01:25 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well the way you were discussing the matter lead me to believe you thought it did. Sorry for the assumption.

But what I have an issue with is that it's such a small, insignificant reason that it is barely worthy of mention. It's as if he had signed a deal, won the Norris, and I said he wanted to prove to the world he was worth his deal. It's entirely subjective to begin with, and so, I find it rather unworthy of mention.

I believe his work ethic, his off/on ice training, his experience and maturity are why he won the Norris last season. Him wanting to prove he's worth more than a bridge deal is a superficial reason.
You can find a new one like this every year. Every year you can find about a million reasons of what players want to ''prove'' and say they served as motivation.
I am not sure that I think motivation as it pertains to training and physical effort are really the variables that I think could possibly be in play.

I am more alluding to Subban potentially being more willing to listen to his coaches and play more of a team game. The reason for his improvement this past season was that he simplified his game as the coaches have pleaded with him to do from the day that he arrived. Perhaps he finally understood how strongly they felt about his need to improve this part of his game by playing hardball due to a lack of evidence that he was able/willing to take this next step.

I submit to you that this is pure conjecture and only exists as a plausible possibility because it was only after his negotiations had finished that he addressed this deficiency in his game. Perhaps he would have done it anyways....we will never know.

Like I said I don't believe or dismiss this conjecture but am only acknowledging it's existence as a plausible theory. I am a cynic by nature so my standard of plausibility is inherently higher than most.

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07-16-2013, 01:25 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Paying 7-8M per season to a Norris Trophy winner should not be a problem for any team.
Paying 3.9M for scum like Gorges should be what rubs people here the wrong way.
This! Although I don't agree Gorges is a scrub and will hopefully find his game again but my sentiments exactly. Pay stars big money when they earn it, not because you think they are going to earn it.

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07-16-2013, 01:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
I actually agree. PK came in as a rookie as immediately stepped into the #1 role and was massive in the teams biggest playoff run since 93. But then I thought they (coaches, management and media) treated him like dirt.

It was clear to a lot of people (including PK) that he deserved a lot more than they gave him last off season.

Just give him the money, give him the years and get it done asap. Losing him would suck
Exactly.

People need to realise that he knew what he was capable of and Bergy made him hold out, then signed him cheap. It was a HUGE mistake for a player of this caliber. You treat Norris winners with white gloves, you don't freaking treat them like the other players. Who was the last Norris winner that the Habs treated like dirt ? Chelios ? Where did he end up playing his career ? Montreal ?

Wake the **** up.

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07-16-2013, 01:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
I heard rumblings that Gomez and a few players were at odds. Cammy was a bit of a ***** to so there was that as well. Ultimately I don't think you are giving enough credit to Marc and Michel for the work they did this year. I though 24CH did a good job of showing this.
Agreed.

This is also the reason that Cole was hastily dispatched as they are building a team culture and he was poisoning the well.

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07-16-2013, 01:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
PK doesn't have attitude problems. Jacques Martin, Gauthier and Bergevin have attitude problems.

The lockerroom of Jacques Martin, where Scott Gomez got 20min/game was the problem, not PK. Bergevin pooping out extensions onto abhorrent scrubs is the problem, not PK.

Price getting a crazy expensive contract with very little to show for it is the problem, not PK. Hell, I'm a Price fan and I think that PK deserved a better deal than him. PK's gotten farther in the playoffs, won more individual accolades and exhibits much more mental strength.

PK's our superstar, Bergevin should've never jerked him around and now we'll pay for it through the nose.
Don't agree with you on Price. That contract's in line with Ward, Miller and most starters.... you aren't going to find too many guys who log as many games as Price does. And the guy dragged us into the playoffs in 2011. I have zero problem with that contract and neither should anyone else. We could trade him tomorrow and have teams lining up for him. His contract is right in line with where it should be. If you want to get a cheaper goalie, we can go the Flyers route and have auditions... hope for a guy who can play 50 games. If we want a guy who's going to play 65+ games a year, we're going to pay for it. And it would help if we had at least one decent shutdown guy on the team but that's a whole other story...

As for PK, we should've signed him for sure. And now that he's won a Norris and is on the verge of becoming a full blown superstar we are going to pay through the nose. Esp since we lowballed him (and it was a lowball.)

I wouldn't rule out 8 mil a year for 6 or 7 years... that's what it's going to take to sign this guy now.

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07-16-2013, 01:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Pk would of signed a long term deal of 5 milly per depending on term easly last year. You can easily assume that given he accepted under 4. He had no reason to demand 6+ last year. But 5.5×5years he would accepted in heartbeat.
I'm sure you're right. Seemed pretty clear that this was what he was looking for and he was already well worth that money based on last season... Totally dumb not signing him.

"I want to make him a better person..." Yeah, right.

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07-16-2013, 01:36 PM
  #90
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Copy paste Doughty's contract. Subban deserves every dime coming to him.

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07-16-2013, 01:37 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
That's a pretty arrogant statement. PK is pretty much my favorite player but I wouldn't have wanted him signed to a 6-7 plus million dollar longterm deal before last season, I don't buy that they could have locked him up for 5 million either.

Obviously I am not a fan of these long term deals that pay the player on future potential, look at how bad Price gets reamed over the coals, and guys like Tyler Myers etc. I knew PK was going to be a superstar and he would get paid like it one day, and he just proved that he is worth it.

All I know is I was happy with the deal at the time and still happy because Subban won a Norris and we know he earned big money. Too many chicken littles here that think this is going to become a problem because as it has been shown time and time again, the salary cap can be managed in one way or another.
Not arrogant at all. These little extra sources of motivations sound a lot more like clichés than anything else, and as I brought up, there's plenty of new ones to come up with every year, for every situation.

If you think PK was asking for 6-7+ last time around, then I'm curious, how much do you think he'll ask for now? 8-9-10M??? Not sure how PK who had a career high of 38pts and just finished his sophomore year could be asking for 7M. Don't understand how this makes any sense. Furthermore, you seem to believe PK's words and say you're a big fan of his, so then there's no reason for you to think he was asking for so much after he publicly stated he wasn't asking for the moon and just wanted a fair price of his worth.

The difference with Price is that he hadn't proved to be top 3 goalie yet he was signed to a top 3 cap hit.
Myers had a rough sophomore year, PK didn't. Also, Myers got injured and never got back to his better ways.
In any event, there are examples of both kinds. Some that sign a deal early and don't live up to it, others that do. When you look at PK though, there's really no reason to think he's the type of player to disappear after signing a lucrative deal.

I don't think it's a problem. I didn't like the way Bergevin handled the situation because he held out the best player of the team and seem to alienate him from the rest of the team a bit but at the end of the day he was signed. I just think that if you have a chance to put a surefire youngster under contract to a cheaper deal, you go for it. Any cap space saved over big players is always a plus.

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07-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I'm sure you're right. Seemed pretty clear that this was what he was looking for and he was already well worth that money based on last season... Totally dumb not signing him.

"I want to make him a better person..." Yeah, right.
I hope the making him better part was just covering for MB still having a doubt about PKs skills, because he woyld never be able to say that publicly. Which is much better then treating PK like a 10 year old teaching him " discipline" through regulating his "allowance".

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07-16-2013, 01:52 PM
  #93
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If PK is not signed at the training camp, expect the season to be a big circus

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07-16-2013, 01:53 PM
  #94
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MB will get PK signed to a long term deal at some point, i'm sure he won't give a damn that it's going to cost him more now then it would have last year because;

A) he earned it
B) he's likely to sign him to a longer deal that will eat into his prime years (UFA years)

All this belly-aching over Subban's next contract is ridiculous.

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07-16-2013, 01:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
If PK is not signed at the training camp, expect the season to be a big circus
When is a Montreal Canadiens season NOT a big circus?

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07-16-2013, 01:57 PM
  #96
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I hope the making him better part was just covering for MB still having a doubt about PKs skills, because he woyld never be able to say that publicly. Which is much better then treating PK like a 10 year old teaching him " discipline" through regulating his "allowance".
The 'making him better' part was just for public consumption IMO...there's not a GM or hockey person/fan in the world who can't recognize the talent that Subban posesses.

I just think that MB wanted/wants to establish a way of doing business, especially as a guy just coming into the General Manager position. I respect him for trying to instill a team hierarchy and will respect him even more if he rewards Subban with a huge deal as the Habs highest paid player.

He earned it...

As i've said many times, teams all over the NHL are paying all their stars big time money...currently, the Habs only have 1 player making north of 6m. Paying Subban
7-8M per year is not going to cripple the Habs.

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07-16-2013, 01:57 PM
  #97
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Some reaction in this thread is laughable.

Has the media reported a rift between Bergevin and Subban or something? Because the way I am reading it, many of you are of the persuasion that Subban will be on the first bus out of town if his demands are not met, which many of you are also fabricating off of other contracts given to similar defensemen recently.

NOBODY including Subban would have guessed he would have the season he did last year. Good for him, and good for us. To villainize Bergevin in all of this is ludicrous and semi-retarded.

Some of you need to quit acting like you know it all, are Subban's agent, or are Bergevin's conscience, and realize that HINDSIGHT IS 20/20.

The *****ing and whining on this board has reached epic proportion this past year.

The patience of 2 year olds I tell you.

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07-16-2013, 02:02 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The 'making him better' part was just for public consumption IMO...there's not a GM or hockey person/fan in the world who can't recognize the talent that Subban posesses.

I just think that MB wanted/wants to establish a way of doing business, especially as a guy just coming into the General Manager position. I respect him for trying to instill a team hierarchy and will respect him even more if he rewards Subban with a huge deal as the Habs highest paid player.

He earned it...

As i've said many times, teams all over the NHL are paying all their stars big time money...currently, the Habs only have 1 player making north of 6m. Paying Subban
7-8M per year is not going to cripple the Habs.
This, thank you for eloquently saying what I was trying to say. I am glad Marc set a precedent and glad Subban proved he is the real deal.

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07-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The 'making him better' part was just for public consumption IMO...there's not a GM or hockey person/fan in the world who can't recognize the talent that Subban posesses.

I just think that MB wanted/wants to establish a way of doing business, especially as a guy just coming into the General Manager position. I respect him for trying to instill a team hierarchy and will respect him even more if he rewards Subban with a huge deal as the Habs highest paid player.

He earned it...

As i've said many times, teams all over the NHL are paying all their stars big time money...currently, the Habs only have 1 player making north of 6m. Paying Subban
7-8M per year is not going to cripple the Habs.
Just like he earned a nice 5-5.5 milly contract last year. There is a reason there is so much talks about his contract, since his perceived (talking about MBs and all people who found contract fair and half the fanbase who was rdy to trade him last offseason, which is the reason there seems to be so many defending MBs craptastic valuation of PK) value basically 2x + over less then a year. You pay professionals what they are worth, and using salaries to discipline pros is fuking dumb and will back fire. Treat others how you would like to be treated. I dont see PK jumping around telling everyone how MBs "philosophy" has changed him so much that he became a norris winner.

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07-16-2013, 02:18 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by prairie hab View Post
Some reaction in this thread is laughable.

Has the media reported a rift between Bergevin and Subban or something? Because the way I am reading it, many of you are of the persuasion that Subban will be on the first bus out of town if his demands are not met, which many of you are also fabricating off of other contracts given to similar defensemen recently.

NOBODY including Subban would have guessed he would have the season he did last year. Good for him, and good for us. To villainize Bergevin in all of this is ludicrous and semi-retarded.

Some of you need to quit acting like you know it all, are Subban's agent, or are Bergevin's conscience, and realize that HINDSIGHT IS 20/20.

The *****ing and whining on this board has reached epic proportion this past year.

The patience of 2 year olds I tell you.
It's not hindsight when you said it was bad decision at the time and then you turned out to be right. It's called foresight.

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