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Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-16-2013, 03:21 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Just like he earned a nice 5-5.5 milly contract last year. There is a reason there is so much talks about his contract, since his perceived (talking about MBs and all people who found contract fair and half the fanbase who was rdy to trade him last offseason, which is the reason there seems to be so many defending MBs craptastic valuation of PK) value basically 2x + over less then a year. You pay professionals what they are worth, and using salaries to discipline pros is fuking dumb and will back fire. Treat others how you would like to be treated. I dont see PK jumping around telling everyone how MBs "philosophy" has changed him so much that he became a norris winner.
I don't think athletes/executives are as emotional when it comes to negotiations as fans perceive them to be. If Subban ego is bruised over his GM using the same policy that guys like Price, Pacioretty had to go through...then he'll just have to get over it.

MB wanted PK to earn his next big contract, PK went out and did it...let's at least give MB the chance to show that he's a man of his word. Who cares if he'll be making 3M more now then he would have had he signed a long term deal last year.

Had he signed a long term deal last year, he would also be up for another HUGE raise right in his prime years. Furthermore, precious cap space that fans continually obsess about would of been scarce with the cap going down next year.

Contrary to popular belief...Bergevin DOES have the long term security of this team in mind.

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07-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's not hindsight when you said it was bad decision at the time and then you turned out to be right. It's called foresight.
How have you turned out to be right?

Having to pay Subban more money is NOT a bad thing

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07-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by prairie hab View Post
Some reaction in this thread is laughable.

Has the media reported a rift between Bergevin and Subban or something? Because the way I am reading it, many of you are of the persuasion that Subban will be on the first bus out of town if his demands are not met, which many of you are also fabricating off of other contracts given to similar defensemen recently.

NOBODY including Subban would have guessed he would have the season he did last year. Good for him, and good for us. To villainize Bergevin in all of this is ludicrous and semi-retarded.

Some of you need to quit acting like you know it all, are Subban's agent, or are Bergevin's conscience, and realize that HINDSIGHT IS 20/20.

The *****ing and whining on this board has reached epic proportion this past year.

The patience of 2 year olds I tell you.
I don't think people are "villainizing" him at all. Yes, I think they mishandled the situation and I hated the way they treated him. Doesn't mean I think that they're terrible or that they should be fired.

But it's very clear now (as it was to many of us back then) that the guy was lowballed. Why he was lowballed is open to debate but he'd proven himself well beyond what he got. You say his season was surprising? Okay, to a certain extent maybe so. But nobody should be surprised that he had a strong year. He had improved almost game by game last season before coming into this one.

A 5 year 5 mil per was not unreasonable and many of us thought it was a great idea and argued so AT THE TIME.

So don't come here now and blame us for being right about this. And don't tell us we're 'whining' when we turn out to be right. Most of us are mature enough to say when we were wrong and do so all the time. There's no reason for blasting people when they get things right. And they certainly did in this case.

MB was foolish for making the offer he did and now we have to live with the consequencences of that decision. We have every right to rip him for this. You don't like it? Then don't post on a message board. Save yourself the stress and go watch The Bachelorette or something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The 'making him better' part was just for public consumption IMO...there's not a GM or hockey person/fan in the world who can't recognize the talent that Subban posesses.

I just think that MB wanted/wants to establish a way of doing business, especially as a guy just coming into the General Manager position. I respect him for trying to instill a team hierarchy and will respect him even more if he rewards Subban with a huge deal as the Habs highest paid player.

He earned it...

As i've said many times, teams all over the NHL are paying all their stars big time money...currently, the Habs only have 1 player making north of 6m. Paying Subban
7-8M per year is not going to cripple the Habs.
But getting Norris value production out of a player for 5 million dollars would've given us a huge competitive advantage over the next five years... That's how you build cup winning teams. We cost ourselves 2-3 mil in cap space for no reason.

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07-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's not hindsight when you said it was bad decision at the time and then you turned out to be right. It's called foresight.
All of the competently run teams in the NHL sign their "star" players to a longer term contract after their ELC unless the player needs to prove himself, or he isn't a "star" player yet, or the player doesn't want to sign a longer contract, none of which applied to Subban.

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07-16-2013, 03:26 PM
  #105
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You dont "earn" 7-8milly in a shortened season with quick first round exit. Iys accumulation of prior years. This year was basically confirmation that he was and is mtls #1 dman.

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07-16-2013, 03:27 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't think people are "villainizing" him at all. Yes, I think they mishandled the situation and I hated the way they treated him. Doesn't mean I think that they're terrible or that they should be fired.

But it's very clear now (as it was to many of us back then) that the guy was lowballed. Why he was lowballed is open to debate but he'd proven himself well beyond what he got. You say his season was surprising? Okay, to a certain extent maybe so. But nobody should be surprised that he had a strong year. He had improved almost game by game last season before coming into this one.

A 5 year 5 mil per was not unreasonable and many of us thought it was a great idea and argued so AT THE TIME. So don't come here now and blame us for being right about this. And don't tell us we're 'whining' when we turn out to be right. Most of us are mature enough to say when we were wrong and do so all the time. There's no reason for blasting people when they get things right. And they certainly did in this case.

MB was foolish for making the offer he did and now we have to live with the consequencences of that decision. We have every right to rip him for this. You don't like it? Then don't post on a message board. Save yourself the stress and go watch The Bachelorette or something like that.
I keep seeing this number quoted...5 years at 5M. Has Subban and/or his agent confirmed that's what he was looking for and/or that's what he would of accepted?

Hmmm...if i'm Subban last year, I actually think that's a pretty crummy deal to take if I'm convinced I can be among the best dmen in the league like we all know he thinks he can.

Subban is going to see way more money by taking that bridge deal then he would have by taking that 5/25M deal people here keep referencing.

I know at first glance it seems as though that deal is better for the team...but it's really not and I am for one very thankful our GM has the vision to see that. I also think that after some convincing and reflection, Subban was also able to see that.

That 5/25M deal is going to look like chump change around this time next year...and good for him

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07-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't think athletes/executives are as emotional when it comes to negotiations as fans perceive them to be. If Subban ego is bruised over his GM using the same policy that guys like Price, Pacioretty had to go through...then he'll just have to get over it.

MB wanted PK to earn his next big contract, PK went out and did it...let's at least give MB the chance to show that he's a man of his word. Who cares if he'll be making 3M more now then he would have had he signed a long term deal last year.

Had he signed a long term deal last year, he would also be up for another HUGE raise right in his prime years. Furthermore, precious cap space that fans continually obsess about would of been scarce with the cap going down next year.


Contrary to popular belief...Bergevin DOES have the long term security of this team in mind.
You're putting lipstick on a pig here.

Dude, no matter how you slice it, this is a lot uglier than it would've been had we just paid the man what he'd already shown himself to be worth...

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07-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't think athletes/executives are as emotional when it comes to negotiations as fans perceive them to be. If Subban ego is bruised over his GM using the same policy that guys like Price, Pacioretty had to go through...then he'll just have to get over it.

MB wanted PK to earn his next big contract, PK went out and did it...let's at least give MB the chance to show that he's a man of his word. Who cares if he'll be making 3M more now then he would have had he signed a long term deal last year.

Had he signed a long term deal last year, he would also be up for another HUGE raise right in his prime years. Furthermore, precious cap space that fans continually obsess about would of been scarce with the cap going down next year.

Contrary to popular belief...Bergevin DOES have the long term security of this team in mind.
Gauthier wanted to sign Price long term because Gauthier understands how the cap works.

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07-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
How have you turned out to be right?

Having to pay Subban more money is NOT a bad thing
We said he was a star and a potential Norris calibre defenceman. He won the Norris so we were right. Paying Subban isn't bad, it's just not as good as paying him less.

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07-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Paying 7-8M per season to a Norris Trophy winner should not be a problem for any team.
Paying 3.9M for scum like Gorges should be what rubs people here the wrong way.
''Scum like Gorges''

Are you real? ****ing disgrace to call our heart and soul players ''scum''.

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07-16-2013, 03:31 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I keep seeing this number quoted...5 years at 5M. Has Subban and/or his agent confirmed that's what he was looking for and/or that's what he would of accepted?

Hmmm...if i'm Subban last year, I actually think that's a pretty crummy deal to take if I'm convinced I can be among the best dmen in the league like we all know he thinks he can.

Subban is going to see way more money by taking that bridge deal then he would have by taking that 5/25M deal people here keep referencing.

I know at first glance it seems as though that deal is better for the team...but it's really not and I am for one very thankful our GM has the vision to see that. I also think that after some convincing and reflection, Subban was also able to see that.

That 5/25M deal is going to look like chump change around this time next year...and good for him
It was pretty well known that that's what he was looking for. Initially I thought he wanted a lot more but it became apparent very quickly that this wasn't the case.

Yes, 25 for 5 would've gone down...

And there's no excuse for paying him as low as we did. At the very least he was owed a heck of a lot more than we paid him this year. Pissing off your star players isn't a good idea. And it will come back to bite us in the ass in the long run.

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07-16-2013, 03:32 PM
  #112
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Plenty of time for Bergevin

PK as 1 year left, Bergevin will see what he gives an entire season with PK's new attitude. Then if he is still as great as we all believe he will be, than the Habs will pay him what he deserves, 7+

If they have trouble getting alone, maybe some wa-hoo offer sheet him 9 millions a year for 7 years - that's 63 millions which would bring PK, at the end to 33 and probably at the end anyway of the HABS next cup cycle 5 to 7 years.

Let someone do the offer sheet, if Bergevin really want PK, he won't have the choice but to match like Nashville did with Weber (who, accepted or not, as proven more in the NHL at this time than PK)

If not he'll take 5 first round picks and we'll just have to be pissed, but i'll wait before getting crazy and be pissed....

And with Markov, Gionta, Bouillon of the books (12 millions right there) and the cap getting back up a bit, let's be conservative and say only 3 millions), i'm sure we'll be able to fit our star defenseman salary, whatever is the cost....

so relax y'all.....

it's nice outside.... if you're too hot, take a shower.... could really help some of you !!!

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07-16-2013, 03:34 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
''Scum like Gorges''

Are you real? ****ing disgrace to call our heart and soul players ''scum''.
Our "heart and soul players" were the first one to spit at Subban in the media before the start of last season. They're also the ones who freakin' let the team down in the last months, whether it's because of injuries (Gionta), declining play (Markov), or just sucking as **** (Gorges).

Gorges is struggling to pass a freaking puck. He's always getting outmuscled and loses tons of 1 on 1 battle...

Steve Begin was a heart and soul player too. Doesn't mean an NHL team need a player like him.

Our veteran/leaders group rubbed me the wrong way last season. And even though I used to adore the guy, I clearly didn't like Pacioretty jumping on Subban's back after doing such a stupid suicide pass to him. Especially the way he was playing.

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07-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post

PK as 1 year left, Bergevin will see what he gives an entire season with PK's new attitude.
I lol'd. Crazy how many people think pk has a new attitude with MBs allowance discipline program

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07-16-2013, 03:36 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I keep seeing this number quoted...5 years at 5M. Has Subban and/or his agent confirmed that's what he was looking for and/or that's what he would of accepted?

Hmmm...if i'm Subban last year, I actually think that's a pretty crummy deal to take if I'm convinced I can be among the best dmen in the league like we all know he thinks he can.

Subban is going to see way more money by taking that bridge deal then he would have by taking that 5/25M deal people here keep referencing.

I know at first glance it seems as though that deal is better for the team...but it's really not and I am for one very thankful our GM has the vision to see that. I also think that after some convincing and reflection, Subban was also able to see that.

That 5/25M deal is going to look like chump change around this time next year...and good for him
Then you're clearly not thinking straight. Most people are willing to trade money for security. PK knows that he might get injured tomorrow and never sign another contract again. So he takes less money in order for it to be guaranteed. Hell just look at Ryan White, he could have made more money if he signed his QO, but instead he opted for less money but it being guaranteed (1-way instead of 2-way). It's completely normal.

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07-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It was pretty well known that that's what he was looking for. Initially I thought he wanted a lot more but it became apparent very quickly that this wasn't the case.

Yes, 25 for 5 would've gone down...

And there's no excuse for paying him as low as we did. At the very least he was owed a heck of a lot more than we paid him this year. Pissing off your star players isn't a good idea. And it will come back to bite us in the ass in the long run.
I'd like to see an actual article, quote or whatever from either PK Subban, Marc Bergevin or Donald Meehan that says 25 for 5

i dare you to find it

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07-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #117
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Next year he might earn the right to the triple low five if he behaves

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07-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #118
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But getting Norris value production out of a player for 5 million dollars would've given us a huge competitive advantage over the next five years... That's how you build cup winning teams. We cost ourselves 2-3 mil in cap space for no reason.
That's an assumption...it's not reality.

You build Cup winners by having the right kind of players, regardless of how much money they make. You do that by drafting well, developing those players well, making astute trades and having competent coaching

Not by trying to be a scrooge with the salary cap

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07-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
I'd like to see an actual article, quote or whatever from either PK Subban, Marc Bergevin or Donald Meehan that says 25 for 5

i dare you to find it
I dare you to prove that water is wet.

It was reported all over the media man. TSN, Cherry, CBC... everyone said that this was what he was looking for. Do you expect them to come out and publicly declare this? No, they did what any smart agent would do... they leaked it out to the media.

And no matter how you slice it, we paid we below what we should have for him last year and PK actually signed it. So there's very clear evidence that he wasn't asking for the moon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That's an assumption...it's not reality.

You build Cup winners by having the right kind of players, regardless of how much money they make. You do that by drafting well, developing those players well, making astute trades and having competent coaching

Not by trying to be a scrooge with the salary cap
There's good evidence to suggest that this was the case.

As usual, the folks who defended the move back then will now cling to some form of Cartesian Skepticism - we can't possibly know anything about anything - to try to argue their point. It's absurd to do this man...

Go back and look at my posts. I initially thought PK was asking for the moon too. I blamed his agent (Meehan's a shark) and argued that he was going to drag this out. It became very quickly apparent though that this wasn't the case. It was reported everywhere what they wanted... You want to say maybe it would've been 26 over 5? Okay, but it was in that range. And I have a hard time PK wouldn't have signed at 5 for 25 esp given what he signed for.

Look at what MB's final offer was. You're going to tell me this was a good decision? Really?

As for cap management... it's definitely key to winning cups.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 07-16-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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07-16-2013, 03:40 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
I'd like to see an actual article, quote or whatever from either PK Subban, Marc Bergevin or Donald Meehan that says 25 for 5

i dare you to find it
No need for quoting something thats rationally assumed given his role and production over the years.

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07-16-2013, 03:41 PM
  #121
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I lol'd. Crazy how many people think pk has a new attitude with MBs allowance discipline program
well i f you follow news and media whatsoever, you'd realize that the way PK acted last year was different than the year before, not saying that, much medias did.... so yeah there was a change in his attitude

am i saying that the way he acted before disturb me? NOT at all, i alway's liked PK but the facts are that he change his way last season...

And i'm not saying that Bergevin had anything to do with that...

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07-16-2013, 03:42 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
No need for quoting something thats rationally assumed given his role and production over the years.
Yeas maybe he deserves that, but unless someone proves that it's what him and Newport Management ask last year, i don't give more credibility to this than to the people saying that he ask for Doughty money (so 7+)

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07-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Yeas maybe he deserves that, but unless someone proves that it's what him and Newport Management ask last year, i don't give more credibility to this than to the people saying that he ask for Doughty money (so 7+)
Subban refuted that he wanted Doughty type money. A lot of the players like, as an example, Hall and Seguin were getting $5.5 million to $6 million per year on a 6 year deal and Subban said that he wanted to get paid like the others in his peer group.

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07-16-2013, 03:48 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You're putting lipstick on a pig here.

Dude, no matter how you slice it, this is a lot uglier than it would've been had we just paid the man what he'd already shown himself to be worth...
I am?

I just completely disagree that having to pay more annually for our best dman is somehow handicapping this team's ability to be competitive.

Nothing comes to to just one contract like that...the Habs will have MORE then enough money to have PK Subban for the best part of his career AND still be able to ice a competitive team.

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07-16-2013, 03:50 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I dare you to prove that water is wet.

It was reported all over the media man. TSN, Cherry, CBC... everyone said that this was what he was looking for. Do you expect them to come out and publicly declare this? No, they did what any smart agent would do... they leaked it out to the media.

And no matter how you slice it, we paid we below what we should have for him last year and PK actually signed it. So there's very clear evidence that he wasn't asking for the moon.
Yeah, cause agents never lies and if your source are Cherry or Healy... thatMs not looking to good.

Give me Bob McKenzie or Pierre Lebrun....

And, of course 5 years would not have been a bridge contract, which your all star goalie and best forward had to endure, so same with PK, it's not the Montreal PK's it's the Montreal Canadiens...

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