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Mikhail Grabovski [MOD Warning Post #17]

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Old
07-16-2013, 02:40 PM
  #201
shakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
so the Leafs have a ton of cap space right? why would they not give Grabo another yr cause we all know he has talent to score

Bolland in , Grabo out is not an offensive upgrade, Defensive sure

Kadri, Bozak are not good number 1 Cs, 2nd line maybe. Mclement is one of the best 4th though.

All in all I dont see how the Leafs got much better. Clarkson is overrated, sure he will bring physical play but he wont score a ton.

Bernier is the key
You really don't see that the Leafs got better? Come on.. The Leafs were one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL and unfortunately, defensive lapses cost the Leafs the season. I will take Bolland over Grabovski 10 out of 10 and the offensive output, at least compared to last season, is negligible.

Thanks for your input on Kadri as a 2nd line centre.. so kind. Maybe after he plays more than one full season we could get a more accurate representation of his talents.

Notice how you didn't compare MacArthur to Clarkson.. just went straight for the "overrated" stand by. Clarkson is clearly an upgrade over MacArthur.

Bernier isn't any key. The Leafs have a fine NHL goalie already. Reimer carried the team to the playoffs last year and there is no reason to suspect he couldn't do the same. Now that the Leafs have Bernier, they have better options in net should there be any problems. I don't think that anyone would want Scrivens to carry the load for a season or playoffs. He performed well, but he wasn't ideal. I really can't see anyone here picking Scrivens over Bernier.

As far as I am concerned, I believe the new players are clear upgrades on the old players and therefore, have upgraded.

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07-16-2013, 03:49 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Grabo is the epitmimy of looking good but accomplishing little.

He was the #2C(played with JVR) for us to start the series with Boston but was lit up against Krejci. Produced little.

Randy Carlyle made an adjustment and went back to Kadri in a top 6 role later in the series and when Bozak went down. Dropped Grabo to #3C and he failed again, ending with a woeful -10 in the series.

Pretty much this is the summary of his work. Get rocked, played leaky defence, little to no secondary offence, no physical game.

Teams will realize this when and if he signs with another team.
How did you feel when he scored 29g, and centered the 5th best line in the league?

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07-17-2013, 09:38 AM
  #203
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How did you feel when he scored 29g, and centered the 5th best line in the league?
He was part of the run and gun Wilson days, so his stats were a bit inflated.

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07-17-2013, 09:44 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
How did you feel when he scored 29g, and centered the 5th best line in the league?
I'd liken Grabovski's inflated performance those years to a guy who has a few boom seasons on a newly minted expansion club, like a Brian Bradley or a Donald Audette. Those guys usually tend to lose their top six roles when their clubs get better.

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07-17-2013, 09:45 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
so the Leafs have a ton of cap space right? why would they not give Grabo another yr cause we all know he has talent to score

Bolland in , Grabo out is not an offensive upgrade, Defensive sure

Kadri, Bozak are not good number 1 Cs, 2nd line maybe. Mclement is one of the best 4th though.

All in all I dont see how the Leafs got much better. Clarkson is overrated, sure he will bring physical play but he wont score a ton.

Bernier is the key
Scoring isn't their problem though. They have Kadri, Lupul, Kessel, JVR. They needed a great defensive center and a gritty forward who can score. These are guys they needed.

Then they added a solid 1-2 punch in nets

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07-17-2013, 10:27 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
How did you feel when he scored 29g, and centered the 5th best line in the league?
That was a pretty bad team in 10-11, being the best line on a bad team doesn't mean much. Scoring goals and allowing just as many goals, you take those stats and balance them out by asking what they would have done if Ron Wilson had demanded a defence first approach instead of a run and scatter approach.

29 goals and 29 assists and 58 points for a career high is not something to be especially proud of when you play under those circumstances.

Regardless, I thought Kulemin, Macarthur were just as much if not more responsible for that line's success. I would post Kulemin's 30 goals from that season to prove just how little Grabo had to do with it. But I think you already know this from the Leafs board.

None of them have been as good as that one year which now looks more like a fluke than reality.

Grabo last 73 games 26 points

Macarthur no where near the 62 point winger he was in 10-11

and Kulemin is looking closer to a 15 goal winger rather than a 30 goal winger, which is fine for the defence and hard mins he plays for the team.

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:35 AM
  #207
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
so the Leafs have a ton of cap space right? why would they not give Grabo another yr cause we all know he has talent to score

Bolland in , Grabo out is not an offensive upgrade, Defensive sure

Kadri, Bozak are not good number 1 Cs, 2nd line maybe. Mclement is one of the best 4th though.

All in all I dont see how the Leafs got much better. Clarkson is overrated, sure he will bring physical play but he wont score a ton.

Bernier is the key
Grabovski would have provided nothing for us. I love him as a player and wish he wasnt bought out but he didnt fit anywhere and wouldn't provide us with anything we don't already have. He had no chemistry with Kessel and would not usurp Kadri on the second line. For the role he would've been forced into by default, Bolland is a significant upgrade.

By role or position in the lineup
Clarkson > MacArthur
Bolland > Grabovski
Bernier >>>>> Scrivens
Nothing <<< Komarov + Frattin

The only downgrade thus far this offseason were the loss of Frattin and Komarov without replacement, everything else was an upgrade. From this point on Nonis' job will be to bolster the blue line (which can happen internally) and find a solid two-way Bergeron-like center.

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07-17-2013, 10:45 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Grabovski would have provided nothing for us. I love him as a player and wish he wasnt bought out but he didnt fit anywhere and wouldn't provide us with anything we don't already have. He had no chemistry with Kessel and would not usurp Kadri on the second line. For the role he would've been forced into by default, Bolland is a significant upgrade.

By role or position in the lineup
Clarkson > MacArthur
Bolland > Grabovski
Bernier >>>>> Scrivens
D'amigo or Ashton = Komarov + Frattin

The only downgrade thus far this offseason were the loss of Frattin and Komarov without replacement, everything else was an upgrade. From this point on Nonis' job will be to bolster the blue line (which can happen internally) and find a solid two-way Bergeron-like center.
There are no downgrades from the moves Nonis has made this year IMO. All were significant upgrades , more importantly all bad cap hits are now off the books.

You cannot waste a cent in a 64.3 cap ceiling, and Nonis has pretty much done this.

The only move, and I agree is for a trade for a stay at home Defenceman and to rid ourselves of JM Liles.

I expect Rielly to make the team out of training camp, I believe that's one too many PMD with Gardiner and Rielly being better options than Liles.

Nonis has one move to go, that is to find a #2D partner for Phaneuf next season. I was hoping that would have been Ferrence, but he was snapped up.

A Ferrence, Scuderi type of D man would make the Leafs very dangerous in the Playoffs, the team that was one or 2 players away from upsetting the Bruins. Given that Bozak, Kadri, JVR, Reimer, Gardiner, and Kessel are another year older, I expect this team to keep on getting better under the guidance of Carlyle. This core and team are still ascending, they still haven't reached their potential.

Additions of Clarkson, Bolland, and Bernier will help that process out greatly as will the addition by subtraction of Grabo and Komi.

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:57 AM
  #209
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I see Interactif is still tirelessly attempting to defend the buyout 200 posts later.

Query: any indication as to why he isn't signed yet? Still on the post-marriage kick and not focused on finding a new team yet? KHL-bound? I haven't even heard any rumours which is strange since he's obviously the best FA left on the market at this point.

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Old
07-17-2013, 11:10 AM
  #210
The Podium
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Though id add a fun fact here, anyone else realize Grabovski was born in Germany!?!?!

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Old
07-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #211
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Fun fact #2

Grabo and Phaneuf were married on the same weekend.

Wonder how many more teammates went to Dion's wedding instead of Grabo's?

Further, since Nonis could not even convince a NHL GM to give him a 6th rd pick for his services, the honeymoon excuse is a flimsy one on why he hasn't signed on with another team yet.

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07-17-2013, 12:04 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Scoring isn't their problem though. They have Kadri, Lupul, Kessel, JVR. They needed a great defensive center and a gritty forward who can score. These are guys they needed.

Then they added a solid 1-2 punch in nets
You have McClement and Bozak for your defensive C. I understand Grabs having a bad season, but what happens IF Kadri re-gresses a bit? You then have a 40-50 point #1 C, a 30-40 point #2 C, a 35 point #3 C. I have no issue getting rid of Grabs, I just think that keeping Bozak was not necessary for your #1 C spot. An upgrade there would have been ideal.

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07-17-2013, 12:08 PM
  #213
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The only move, and I agree is for a trade for a stay at home Defenceman and to rid ourselves of JM Liles.
Swapping one for the other would be ideal.

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07-17-2013, 12:23 PM
  #214
Interactif
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You have McClement and Bozak for your defensive C. I understand Grabs having a bad season, but what happens IF Kadri re-gresses a bit? You then have a 40-50 point #1 C, a 30-40 point #2 C, a 35 point #3 C. I have no issue getting rid of Grabs, I just think that keeping Bozak was not necessary for your #1 C spot. An upgrade there would have been ideal.
JVR, Lupul, and Kessel are all proven first liners with Bozak as their Center. Infact when Lupul went down Kessel continued to produce with Bozak with Joey Crabb as the 3rd winger in 11-12. Bozak had 8 points in 10 games when Lupul went down so if he has to play more offensive he has demonstated this.

Bozak is not a finished product, next season will only be his 4th full NHL season. Reasonable to believe the best is still to come, but he knows his role on any line that features Kessel and JVR or Lupul.

It's to be the 3rd man high, play defence while the more creative players score. Kill penalties, take key faceoffs, and be the best shootout player on the team. For which I always love the comparisons of Bozie's faceoff % vs. others on the team. Bozie faces the best faceoff men of other teams nightly, his % is against much tougher than Grabo's or Kadri's.

Bozak comes in at a reasonable 4.2, with that caphit we can allocate the money saved from 5.5 elsewhere, such as a Defensive partner for Dion. It doesn't always have to be scientific, but Kessel, JVR, and Lupul all have had their best PPG averages with Bozak as their Center. It works so I don't see a need for an upgrade. There is only so much money to throw around in a cap world and still expect to re-sign Kessel and Phaneuf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Swapping one for the other would be ideal.
Nonis probably has something in mind, I would expect a move if Rielly makes it impossible to send him back to Moose Jaw this year.


Last edited by SnS: 07-17-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 12:40 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
There are no downgrades from the moves Nonis has made this year IMO. All were significant upgrades , more importantly all bad cap hits are now off the books.

You cannot waste a cent in a 64.3 cap ceiling, and Nonis has pretty much done this.

The only move, and I agree is for a trade for a stay at home Defenceman and to rid ourselves of JM Liles.

I expect Rielly to make the team out of training camp, I believe that's one too many PMD with Gardiner and Rielly being better options than Liles.

Nonis has one move to go, that is to find a #2D partner for Phaneuf next season. I was hoping that would have been Ferrence, but he was snapped up.

A Ferrence, Scuderi type of D man would make the Leafs very dangerous in the Playoffs, the team that was one or 2 players away from upsetting the Bruins. Given that Bozak, Kadri, JVR, Reimer, Gardiner, and Kessel are another year older, I expect this team to keep on getting better under the guidance of Carlyle. This core and team are still ascending, they still haven't reached their potential.

Additions of Clarkson, Bolland, and Bernier will help that process out greatly as will the addition by subtraction of Grabo and Komi.
I think the Leafs got better this offseason, but if you think Ashton/D'Amigo=Komarov/Frattin then any opinion you have is irrelevant.

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Old
07-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #216
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A little pathetic to see Leafs fans crap all over Grabovski because of small sample sizes and mismanagement. Carlyle is horrendous and they'll never get anywhere with him.

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07-17-2013, 01:03 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by officialmark7 View Post
I think the Leafs got better this offseason, but if you think Ashton/D'Amigo=Komarov/Frattin then any opinion you have is irrelevant.
Komarov was a agitator that hit and killed penalties, hardly a player you cannot replace, do you not agree with this?

For all of Frattin's promise, he was not going to play in the top 6 this year. He's not really a 3rd line checking winger either. He had a good start last year, but really went cold towards the end of the year and was a healthy scratch many times.

Josh Leivo, Tyler Biggs, or Ashton or D'amigo are better fits as 3rd line wingers. Younger players, many people forget Frattin is 25, he's not a 20 or 21 year old.

So unless you think Frattin was going to beat out Lupul, JVR, Kessel, or Clarkson for a top 6 role, I am not sure what was exactly irrelevant from my post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
A little pathetic to see Leafs fans crap all over Grabovski because of small sample sizes and mismanagement. Carlyle is horrendous and they'll never get anywhere with him.
Carlyle made the Playoffs in his first year as the Leafs Coach, he also has won a cup many bright coach's haven't. He has won at every level of coaching in his coaching career. If Carlyle is horrendous, then 99.99% of coaches with this type of thinking must be horrendous.


Last edited by SnS: 07-17-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 01:13 PM
  #218
TMI
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Yeah since this isn't even close to being on topic it's getting shut down. When he signs with a team we will have a thread.

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