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Carolina - Florida

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:03 PM
  #1
Stanley Cup
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Carolina - Florida

First time I do this, don't hurt me!


To Carolina :
Erik Gudbranson
2014 2nd round pick

To Florida :
Jeff Skinner


Gudbranson and Skinner are at the same age, both were early 2010 picks. Both could use a change of scenery (-22 and -21 respectively this past season) and I feel they'd fill roster needs. Carolina just drafted Lindholm who could replace Skinner in the long run. The 2nd is added because Skinner is, in my opinion, more proven at this point and therefore seems less risky. Does this make sense?

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:20 PM
  #2
Howboutthempanthers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley cup View Post
first time i do this, don't hurt me!


To carolina :
Erik gudbranson
2014 2nd round pick

to florida :
Jeff skinner


gudbranson and skinner are at the same age, both were early 2010 picks. Both could use a change of scenery (-22 and -21 respectively this past season) and i feel they'd fill roster needs. Carolina just drafted lindholm who could replace skinner in the long run. The 2nd is added because skinner is, in my opinion, more proven at this point and therefore seems less risky. Does this make sense?
Wtf???? Gudbranson is not available. He's going nowhere. The bolded part is way off with Gudbranson.


Last edited by Howboutthempanthers: 07-16-2013 at 09:34 PM.
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07-16-2013, 09:30 PM
  #3
Zombie Mike Murphy
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Carolina says no ****ing way. Trading Skinner would be like a $5M hit in merch sales alone.

That's not even mentioning that Skinner already has his 2nd contract sorted, where as Gudie is an RFA after this year.


Last edited by spiny norman: 07-17-2013 at 12:51 AM. Reason: filter4
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Old
07-16-2013, 09:35 PM
  #4
impeach estaalo
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Quote:
Both could use a change of scenery (-22 and -21 respectively this past season)
Skinner: on-ice shooting percentage of 5.04%, on-ice save percentage of .890
Gudbranson: on-ice shooting percentage of 4.51%, on-ice save percentage of .889

I'd say that both players just need more luck, which they will get. Skinner had an on-ice shooting percentage of 10.97 and 9.28 his first two years. Last season was an anomaly.

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:37 PM
  #5
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No thanks

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:38 PM
  #6
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Cup View Post
First time I do this, don't hurt me!


To Carolina :
Erik Gudbranson
2014 2nd round pick

To Florida :
Jeff Skinner


Gudbranson and Skinner are at the same age, both were early 2010 picks. Both could use a change of scenery (-22 and -21 respectively this past season) and I feel they'd fill roster needs. Carolina just drafted Lindholm who could replace Skinner in the long run. The 2nd is added because Skinner is, in my opinion, more proven at this point and therefore seems less risky. Does this make sense?

Why does a kid going into his 3rd year need a change of scenery? Ohhhhh....the plus/minus, he must need a change! Never mind how poorly the whole team played due the insane amount of injuries, his own injury, and that making him ease up due to doctor's orders.

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:49 PM
  #7
ucanthanzalthetruth
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Not a bad attempt for your first try. I may be in the minority, but I have been unimpressed with Guds first two years in the show. I know he was hurt last year, and I like the edge he plays with, but I was/am still expecting much more. That being said, though Florida badly need a top line center, this trade would result in a huge hole at defence. And you should not use plus minus as an example for players needing a change of scenery. In many cases, it's an overrated stat. Also, Florida having to add a second round pick makes me like this deal less.

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:58 PM
  #8
ShootIt
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Not sure why either team would do that.

Florida isn't going to give up on Gudbranson so soon.

Has he been underwhelming so far? Sure.

However, his game is built around physicality, and it's hard to expect a 21 year old defenseman to be like Pronger on the blueline.

Hopefully they get rid of Jovoslowski from Gudbranson's pairing and allow him to be paired with someone who can help out if he gets out of position.

For Carolina, I don't see the point of getting rid of a skilled forward like Skinner for a defenseman who has some time to go before he possibly reaches his potential.
IE, it would make sense for Carolina to trade Skinner for a more established defenseman. Like Jovo

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07-16-2013, 10:41 PM
  #9
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucanthanzalthetruth View Post
Not a bad attempt for your first try. I may be in the minority, but I have been unimpressed with Guds first two years in the show. I know he was hurt last year, and I like the edge he plays with, but I was/am still expecting much more. That being said, though Florida badly need a top line center, this trade would result in a huge hole at defence. And you should not use plus minus as an example for players needing a change of scenery. In many cases, it's an overrated stat. Also, Florida having to add a second round pick makes me like this deal less.
I was unimpressed with Kuba and, unfortunately, Strachan, losing them doesn't create a 'huge hole.'

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07-16-2013, 11:11 PM
  #10
ucanthanzalthetruth
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I was unimpressed with Kuba and, unfortunately, Strachan, losing them doesn't create a 'huge hole.'
I meant trading Guds would create a huge hole. If anyone thinks the loss of Kuba is bad for Florida, they have never watched hockey in their lives. The only good thing Kuba did for us is that amazing pylon gif with Ovi

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Old
07-16-2013, 11:17 PM
  #11
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucanthanzalthetruth View Post
I meant trading Guds would create a huge hole. If anyone thinks the loss of Kuba is bad for Florida, they have never watched hockey in their lives. The only good thing Kuba did for us is that amazing pylon gif with Ovi
I understood that, was questioning if he's unimpressive, or if his absence creates a huge hole. Unimpressive guys don't create huge holes is all.

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07-16-2013, 11:42 PM
  #12
ucanthanzalthetruth
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I understood that, was questioning if he's unimpressive, or if his absence creates a huge hole. Unimpressive guys don't create huge holes is all.
You are completely right, I contradicted myself by saying that trading someone who has been unimpressive would cause a huge hole, it's just that I'm torn. I still have high hopes for Gudbranson, but I really don't like seeing Matthias as our first line center for this year. I also worry about the fact that Ed slower than Jason Allison Jovanovski will likely be his partner the next year or 2, and wonder if that will stunt his development. As a Panther's fan, there's so much to be nervous about

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Old
07-17-2013, 12:12 AM
  #13
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Change of what?



Last edited by AaronEkbald: 07-17-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 12:46 AM
  #14
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i think skinner's a stud, so the proposal is not bad at all imo. im just not interested in trading gudbranson is all, unless its for a real elite forward, which isnt going to happen. isnt skinner a winger, not a center?

and if anyones curious, thats matthias and gudbranson in that picture

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07-17-2013, 08:43 AM
  #15
ShootIt
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Jeez, Matthias needs to go out in the sun more.

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Old
07-17-2013, 08:55 AM
  #16
tarheelhockey
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Is Matthias hiding behind that white glare?

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Old
07-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #17
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by Zombie Mike Murphy View Post
That's not even mentioning that Skinner already has his 2nd contract sorted, where as Gudie is an RFA after this year.
I wouldn't consider that a positive, since it was a significant overpayment.

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07-17-2013, 09:53 AM
  #18
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I wouldn't consider that a positive, since it was a significant overpayment.
He has the same cap hit as Seguin and Zajac, I'd say that's right around market value.

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07-17-2013, 10:09 AM
  #19
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
He has the same cap hit as Seguin and Zajac, I'd say that's right around market value.
Both of those players are overpaid as well.

Boston gave Seguin that contract and traded him a year later.

Zajac still had 1 year left on his current deal when he was re-signed, after which he would have been UFA. Lou bought 8 UFA years. That's a big difference from Skinner. Skinner still had a year left on his ELC when Rutherford re-signed him. He only bought 2 UFA years.

Would you still give Skinner that contract based on his last 2 years? I wouldn't, and I'm sure Rutherford is regretting it right now. He should have waited until Skinner was RFA to re-sign him, rather than extending him a year early.

All 3 of those players may by worth their contracts at some point in the future, but right now, they are all overpaid.

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07-17-2013, 12:44 PM
  #20
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Would you still give Skinner that contract based on his last 2 years?
Knowing that he'd spend a big chunk of that time either out of the lineup or hampered by injury? No, but that's not normally how one judges a player as "overpaid".


Quote:
All 3 of those players may by worth their contracts at some point in the future, but right now, they are all overpaid.
What young 30-goal scorer makes significantly less? Kessel is at $5.4m and he's going to get PAID next summer. Kane is at $5.25m, Couture is at $6m, Eberle is at $6m, Lucic is at $6m. The only one I know of who's really discounted is Pacioretty.

Could he have shaved a couple hundred thousand, sure, it would have been nice. But you're not getting a young talent like him for under $5-6 mil, and that's before you bring marketing value into the conversation.

In terms of giving him the contract so early, I agree that was a mistake. I believe JR was expecting the compliance portion of the CBA to be based around rollbacks instead of buyouts, based on this and other moves he made right around that time.

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07-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Howboutthempanthers View Post
Wtf???? Gudbranson is not available. He's going nowhere. The bolded part is way off with Gudbranson.
According to Dineen, he's working extremely hard on his overall game this summer and will be spending the next week or so in Boston with a power skating coach. Doesn't sound like he's gonna be looking for a change of scenery.

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07-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #22
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Knowing that he'd spend a big chunk of that time either out of the lineup or hampered by injury? No, but that's not normally how one judges a player as "overpaid".




What young 30-goal scorer makes significantly less? Kessel is at $5.4m and he's going to get PAID next summer. Kane is at $5.25m, Couture is at $6m, Eberle is at $6m, Lucic is at $6m. The only one I know of who's really discounted is Pacioretty.

Could he have shaved a couple hundred thousand, sure, it would have been nice. But you're not getting a young talent like him for under $5-6 mil, and that's before you bring marketing value into the conversation.

In terms of giving him the contract so early, I agree that was a mistake. I believe JR was expecting the compliance portion of the CBA to be based around rollbacks instead of buyouts, based on this and other moves he made right around that time.
You agree you wouldn't have given him that contract based on the last 2 years. You agree that Rutherford extended him too early. Yet you say he isn't overpaid?

If Rutherford had waited a year, wouldn't Skinner's cap hit be less based on his body of work? Absolutely it would. So he is overpaid.

You bring up Couture. Couture isn't even making that money yet. That contract doesn't start until 2014, and that's his 3rd contract. His 2nd contract was 2 years @ 2.875 mil. SJ extended him a year early, the summer after he put up 32 goals. He has followed that up with a 31 goal season and a 21 goal in 48 games season.

Lucic's contract is also his 3rd contract. Kane is on a different level than Skinner. His first 2 years in the league were both better than Skinner's best, and he got extended in the middle of his 3rd season.

Eberle and Kessel are the only ones who are comparable. Both only had 1 great year under the belts at the time they were extended and got big bucks. That's the gamble that teams make. If the player continues trending upward, then the contract becomes a bargain. If the player regresses, the contract is an overpayment.

Skinner's production has done nothing but go down since his rookie season. Maybe he'll stay healthy and prove worthy of his contract. But until that happens, he is overpaid.

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07-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You agree you wouldn't have given him that contract based on the last 2 years. You agree that Rutherford extended him too early. Yet you say he isn't overpaid?

If Rutherford had waited a year, wouldn't Skinner's cap hit be less based on his body of work? Absolutely it would. So he is overpaid.

You bring up Couture. Couture isn't even making that money yet. That contract doesn't start until 2014, and that's his 3rd contract. His 2nd contract was 2 years @ 2.875 mil. SJ extended him a year early, the summer after he put up 32 goals. He has followed that up with a 31 goal season and a 21 goal in 48 games season.

Lucic's contract is also his 3rd contract. Kane is on a different level than Skinner. His first 2 years in the league were both better than Skinner's best, and he got extended in the middle of his 3rd season.

Eberle and Kessel are the only ones who are comparable. Both only had 1 great year under the belts at the time they were extended and got big bucks. That's the gamble that teams make. If the player continues trending upward, then the contract becomes a bargain. If the player regresses, the contract is an overpayment.

Skinner's production has done nothing but go down since his rookie season. Maybe he'll stay healthy and prove worthy of his contract. But until that happens, he is overpaid.
Since Skinner hasn't played a game on his new contract it's pretty tough to call him overpaid.

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Old
07-17-2013, 02:04 PM
  #24
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You agree you wouldn't have given him that contract based on the last 2 years. You agree that Rutherford extended him too early. Yet you say he isn't overpaid?
I wouldn't give him that contract based on exclusively on two years where he was in and out of the lineup, but that's trivial. I also wouldn't give Crosby an $8.7 million cap hit based on his past two seasons -- but that doesn't make him overpaid. You can't just ignore the past and future when negotiating a deal. You are paying for a skillset, and Skinner's skillset makes him a roughly $5.5 million player in this league.

Quote:
If Rutherford had waited a year, wouldn't Skinner's cap hit be less based on his body of work? Absolutely it would. So he is overpaid.
Yeah, if you're basing value on counting stats instead of direct experience with the player, and consider an injury to be "regression" I guess that's true.

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Old
07-17-2013, 02:13 PM
  #25
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I doubt either player gets traded before the start of this season. Both will get another season under current mgmt before they are willing to move either one.

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