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Old
07-17-2013, 06:33 AM
  #101
Spectrefire
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People still don't. The Canucks finally got it into their heads that they need to kickstart the youth movement now before we turn into the Flames, and now you want to throw that away for a guy who might help us for the 1 year our window is still open for?

Come on. We can't keep throwing away the future for another shot at the cup, we need to start thinking about that future and how we're going to survive post-Sedin, and here's a hint, it doesn't involve trading promising prospects for a 30 year old who if he re-signs, will likely spend the rest of his career on a rebuilding Vancouver team.

Not.

Worth.

It.

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Old
07-17-2013, 06:50 AM
  #102
DJOpus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
It's not necessarily what we have done, it's what we need to do. Drafting and retaining homegrown talent is essential in today's NHL.

Anyways, most of our core has been drafted and developed from within
You draft and develop key guys from within and sign + trade for what you are missing.

The Canucks drafted core has a few years left and needs to be supplemented to try and win while it still can...after that, there's plenty of time to rebuild.

The whole "before we become the Flames" thing is crap... they will be fine in a couple of years, their problem was not being successful enough to make the playoffs while they were still going for it.

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Old
07-17-2013, 07:25 AM
  #103
LPH
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
You draft and develop key guys from within and sign + trade for what you are missing.

The Canucks drafted core has a few years left and needs to be supplemented to try and win while it still can...after that, there's plenty of time to rebuild.

The whole "before we become the Flames" thing is crap... they will be fine in a couple of years, their problem was not being successful enough to make the playoffs while they were still going for it.
We are looking to be fine in the future, but if we decide to mortgage our future trying to "supplement our core" when it is blatantly apparent that we are more than one piece away. We will begin to look like Calgary if we make moves like this to give up top prospects for temporary fixes. I want there to be pieces in place for when the Sedins retire so that we are not starting from scratch and can minimize our time as a weaker team.

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Old
07-17-2013, 08:54 AM
  #104
Prospector74
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
We are looking to be fine in the future, but if we decide to mortgage our future trying to "supplement our core" when it is blatantly apparent that we are more than one piece away. We will begin to look like Calgary if we make moves like this to give up top prospects for temporary fixes. I want there to be pieces in place for when the Sedins retire so that we are not starting from scratch and can minimize our time as a weaker team.
What other holes do you have? I ask because Buffalo might have the pieces to help with that and could be convinced to move them. We have a number of other players that likely won't be here on the other end of the rebuild that could be moved if you wanted to expand the trade (Kaleta/Ott/Stafford) and move an add'l combination of short term salary dumps/picks/prospects(Gaunce) back the other way.


BREAK

Vancouver should also be interested in Clifford if he is on the market IMO.


Last edited by Prospector74: 07-17-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 09:26 AM
  #105
NYVanfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
People still don't. The Canucks finally got it into their heads that they need to kickstart the youth movement now before we turn into the Flames, and now you want to throw that away for a guy who might help us for the 1 year our window is still open for?

Come on. We can't keep throwing away the future for another shot at the cup, we need to start thinking about that future and how we're going to survive post-Sedin, and here's a hint, it doesn't involve trading promising prospects for a 30 year old who if he re-signs, will likely spend the rest of his career on a rebuilding Vancouver team.

Not.

Worth.

It.
or, conversely, the Sedins/Luongo window is the next 2-3 years, so go all-in now, then blow it up in a few and go the Pens/Hawks/Kings route and suck for a decade to stockpile the really premium talent for the next go around

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Old
07-19-2013, 04:42 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Prospector74 View Post
What other holes do you have? I ask because Buffalo might have the pieces to help with that and could be convinced to move them. We have a number of other players that likely won't be here on the other end of the rebuild that could be moved if you wanted to expand the trade (Kaleta/Ott/Stafford) and move an add'l combination of short term salary dumps/picks/prospects(Gaunce) back the other way.


BREAK

Vancouver should also be interested in Clifford if he is on the market IMO.
I disagree, our future looks bleak and it will continue to look bleak until we trade our core players for picks + prospects...

I do not think now is the time to do that but that should be revisited every year at this point. Not being decisive on contender vs. rebuild is what leads teams to be mediocre for 10 years, being decisive leads to two to three year turn arounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
or, conversely, the Sedins/Luongo window is the next 2-3 years, so go all-in now, then blow it up in a few and go the Pens/Hawks/Kings route and suck for a decade to stockpile the really premium talent for the next go around
Yep, I say go for it this year and if it looks like the team is really never going to get there, then this off-season you trade a lot of the older players for 2015 1st round picks + prospects. I don't think an extra 20-30th overall pick in 2014 is really going to help turn the team around, so rather than dumping guys at the deadline or at the draft, I'd suggest trading guys for picks in the next year, like MTL did to get Lafleur, and NJD did to get Niedermayer, and roll the dice on where the pick will be.

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Old
07-19-2013, 06:09 PM
  #107
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Or we stay the course and have rookies on entry level deals ready to step in and contribute.

Making the transition from sedin era to new era without sitting in the basement for years. Who wants that? The oilers rebuild has been going on for like seven years.

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Old
07-19-2013, 06:49 PM
  #108
Bourne Endeavor
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Corrado or Tanev could be brought into the discussion if Buffalo is looking for defense. Regardless, I would love to have Vanek, but the max I would go is Jensen/Gaunce + 1st + 2nd and even that is a bit steep. Anyone saying it takes more needs to look at Hossa and Kovalchuk. Neither got nearly as grand a package as HF tends to presume.

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Old
07-19-2013, 06:55 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Corrado or Tanev could be brought into the discussion if Buffalo is looking for defense. Regardless, I would love to have Vanek, but the max I would go is Jensen/Gaunce + 1st + 2nd and even that is a bit steep. Anyone saying it takes more needs to look at Hossa and Kovalchuk. Neither got nearly as grand a package as HF tends to presume.
The Sabres need zero guys on the backend, we are overloaded. We need forwards, specifically wingers. The only prolem with your offer for Vanek is there is a good chance it is a late first rounder.

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Old
07-19-2013, 07:00 PM
  #110
Vankiller Whale
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The Sabres need zero guys on the backend, we are overloaded. We need forwards, specifically wingers. The only prolem with your offer for Vanek is there is a good chance it is a late first rounder.
No team with a high 1st rounder is likely to be interested in Vanek, though.

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Old
07-19-2013, 07:58 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No team with a high 1st rounder is likely to be interested in Vanek, though.


Anything is possible. Lets se florida won the division in 11/12 then ended up in last place while Mmontreal picked 3rd and this year they won the division...quite frankly anything is possible.

When buffalo made the trade of Pominville they figured Minnesota would pick around the mid 20s...not 16.

Going into next year the only teams I think are playoff safe are the semifianalists from this year.

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