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Marc Staal to Colorado

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:58 PM
  #301
tucker3434
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
in Mac's case. I think he's a keeper. But to propose a trade and take your best chips off the table is disingenuine. Staal is just as important to the Rangers as the big three are to the Avs. You have to give to get, even if there are additional risk to acquiring a player like Staal.

As to the quick rebuild, it's a lot easier said than done. IMO
I was just responding to the post asking why unproven mackinnon would be valued over staal. For me that was an easy one. As to taking our best pieces off the table, he just isn't worth that to us. If that's what's required there's no deal to be made. No big deal. Regarding the quick rebuild, we've been sucking since the 08-09 season. I hardly call this a rush job, but my point was that we need to develop what we have. We don't need to rush at this point. We probably aren't a playoff team this year or next, but if the right moves are made, we could be a real force in 3-5 years. No point in risking that for a couple years in the playoffs now.

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07-17-2013, 07:07 AM
  #302
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I'm sorry, that's just not correct. Only a homer would argue that Tyson Barrie is currently in the same stratosphere of value, or contribution, as Michael Del Zotto. Del Zotto wasn't thrown to the wolves? He started playing in the NHL at 18. He went through struggles at the NHL level and was sent to the AHL to get his game back. It's like people forget the NYR have been a borderline playoff team every year because they had the one strong regular season and deep run to the ECF. Del Zotto has played on mostly very mediocre teams. He's so far ahead in his development now and the likelihood of Barrie catching him is really, truly not that high. You believe that Barrie is going to be a 45 point, physical offensive d-man who plays 22+ minutes a night ES/PP/PK? That's what Del Zotto, essentially, already is and he is barely older than Barrie. It's not because you disagree with my opinion that your post is biased and hypocritical; it's because your post is biased and hypocritical. Accusing others of "clearly" not watching Barrie and than making extraordinarily inaccurate statements about Del Zotto isn't a difference of opinion. It's just hypocritical behavior. And the fact that you believe Barrie and Del Zotto are truly comparable can only be attributed to bias, because it can't really be attributed to logic without there being something wrong with the logic in question.
Avs fan here, and one who would take a MDZ-Barrie swap in about 3 seconds, and never look back. And I like Barrie a lot, happy he's on the roster, look forward to him stepping up to be a legit NHLer this season. But MDZ's definitely more proven.

Now, MDZ's not a player without his flaws (in particular, I feel he throws the puck into nasty areas of the ice at times, but then again, what 22 year old defenseman doesn't?). But given the Avs defense of the last few years, boy would MDZ look good out there.

With all of that said, I've forgotten the original proposal.

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07-17-2013, 07:50 AM
  #303
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Staal would not be cheap.

Why would Landeskog be worth more than Staal?

Staal is a proven Nr 1 D who has logged 25-30 minutes against the best player in the league playing in the Atlantic. Staal is a proven work horse who can win series for his team in the POs.

Staal is a coach's dream. Great locker room guy.

Posters complain on posters being so biased/homers a this place, but I think the real problem is that people just don't watch hockey. They don't know who this "Stall" player is...

If Staal's eye isn't fine (against all indications) and he got career problems, that is one thing. If not, NYR aren't trading him for anything less than a Yakoubov or Landeskog or someone like that.


Last edited by Ola: 07-17-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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07-17-2013, 08:03 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Staal would not be cheap.

Why would Landeskog be worth more than Staal?

Staal is a proven Nr 1 D who has logged 25-30 minutes against the best player in the league playing in the Atlantic. Staal is a proven work horse who can win series for his team in the POs.

Staal is a coach's dream. Great locker room guy.

Posters complain on posters being so biased/homers a this place, but I think the real problem is that people just don't watch hockey. They don't know who this "Stall" player is...

If Staal's eye isn't fine (against all indications) and he got career problems, that is one thing. If not, NYR aren't trading him for anything less than a Yakoubov or Landeskog or someone like that.
Yeah, it's never NYR fans proposing Staal deals.

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07-17-2013, 08:34 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Because I disagree with your opinion? Do you know the biggest difference between Barrie and MDZ? One got to develop playing sheltered minutes behind one of the best defensive cores in the NHL and in front of Hank and the other was thrown to the wolves as a rookie and FTR played admirably well. Only a homer would argue that one of those two players has a significant edge over another based on what they showed in the NHL mostly because of the fact that they were used in a completely different way on teams which were/are on the completely opposite side of the spectrum when it comes to the quality of the player surrounding them.



As we all know delusional/impatient fans on these boards are the true barometer of players worth and potential.
That was irrelevant. I said that to show why I was watching Av's games. MDZ played sheltered minutes his first year. He doesn't play against top line competition (generally - there are exceptions), but he plays 23 minutes a game. That isn't against 3/4 lines. There is a stratosphere between the two players.

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07-17-2013, 10:39 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Staal would not be cheap.

Why would Landeskog be worth more than Staal?

Staal is a proven Nr 1 D who has logged 25-30 minutes against the best player in the league playing in the Atlantic. Staal is a proven work horse who can win series for his team in the POs.

Staal is a coach's dream. Great locker room guy.

Posters complain on posters being so biased/homers a this place, but I think the real problem is that people just don't watch hockey. They don't know who this "Stall" player is...

If Staal's eye isn't fine (against all indications) and he got career problems, that is one thing. If not, NYR aren't trading him for anything less than a Yakoubov or Landeskog or someone like that.
Value wise, he may not be, but to the Avs, Landeskog is much more valuable. He's only 20 years old. He's our captain, and he's still on an ELC. We know we can get at least 5 more years of service before he's a UFA, and we'll probably have him long after that. Staal's likely gone as a UFA in 2 years. It just wouldn't make sense for a team that isn't going to be a real threat for at least 2 years anyway.

I can see why the NYR wouldn't move Stall, but it isn't like the rest of our team is scraps either. Obviously this trade couldn't happen until the deadline, but something around O'Reilly for Staal could be good value for both teams.

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07-17-2013, 10:42 AM
  #307
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Even though Duch was coming back from significant injury in 12-13, I highly doubt any Avs fan valued him any less. He's young and talented and the same goes for Marc Staal. When he's on the ice he's still one of the best blueliners in the game, certainly so in his own zone. He's smart, big, skates very well, and has an elite pedigree.

No Mak, Duch, or Land, fine....

Barrie, Aittokallio, & 1st

for

Staal & Powe

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07-17-2013, 10:53 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Even though Duch was coming back from significant injury in 12-13, I highly doubt any Avs fan valued him any less. He's young and talented and the same goes for Marc Staal. When he's on the ice he's still one of the best blueliners in the game, certainly so in his own zone. He's smart, big, skates very well, and has an elite pedigree.

No Mak, Duch, or Land, fine....

Barrie, Aittokallio, & 1st

for

Staal & Powe
On the contrary, there was a faction of Avs fans that were more than willing to part with Duchene.
As for the proposal, I'd take it and run, which probably means the Rangers aren't getting enough.

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07-17-2013, 10:55 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Even though Duch was coming back from significant injury in 12-13, I highly doubt any Avs fan valued him any less. He's young and talented and the same goes for Marc Staal. When he's on the ice he's still one of the best blueliners in the game, certainly so in his own zone. He's smart, big, skates very well, and has an elite pedigree.

No Mak, Duch, or Land, fine....

Barrie, Aittokallio, & 1st

for

Staal & Powe
Pending successful physical/workout, I'd absolutely take this deal.

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07-17-2013, 10:59 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Even though Duch was coming back from significant injury in 12-13, I highly doubt any Avs fan valued him any less. He's young and talented and the same goes for Marc Staal. When he's on the ice he's still one of the best blueliners in the game, certainly so in his own zone. He's smart, big, skates very well, and has an elite pedigree.

No Mak, Duch, or Land, fine....

Barrie, Aittokallio, & 1st

for

Staal & Powe
Yeah.... No

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07-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #311
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I agree with your post (taking the top three off the table, leaving us poor trade partners) but I will just add that the reason I used the last 10 (11 if you add Yakupov) top forwards selected is because, as I mentioned, scouting has progressed significantly in the past 12 years or so. There really is no exception among the last 10 or 11 top forwards selected; they are all among the most coveted and successful players in the league (sticking with forwards because they're easiest to project). I doubt you will be seeing many more of those kinds of picks (Daigle/Stefan) in the coming years. The #1 pick is a pretty sure thing these days, depending only on the quality of the draft class, IMO.
I hear you, man. And it seems with the way the game has been regulated the trend towards young offensive phenoms will continue. I was just chafing a bit with posters that think a top ten pick trumps a top dman that holds his own going up against of the monsters in the East.

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07-17-2013, 01:44 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
I was just responding to the post asking why unproven mackinnon would be valued over staal. For me that was an easy one. As to taking our best pieces off the table, he just isn't worth that to us. If that's what's required there's no deal to be made. No big deal. Regarding the quick rebuild, we've been sucking since the 08-09 season. I hardly call this a rush job, but my point was that we need to develop what we have. We don't need to rush at this point. We probably aren't a playoff team this year or next, but if the right moves are made, we could be a real force in 3-5 years. No point in risking that for a couple years in the playoffs now.
It's perfectly understandable to want to keep your prized top five picks, but sooner or later you have to set your eyes on the prize (see EDM). I'm proud the Rangers don't pick in the lottery bracket even if they are perennially mediocre, but they always do everything possible to improve the team and make the playoffs. That should be the goal. To get to the show and hopefully get hot at the right time.

Anyways, we'll just sign the top talent as UFA's.

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07-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
It's perfectly understandable to want to keep your prized top five picks, but sooner or later you have to set your eyes on the prize (see EDM). I'm proud the Rangers don't pick in the lottery bracket even if they are perennially mediocre, but they always do everything possible to improve the team and make the playoffs. That should be the goal. To get to the show and hopefully get hot at the right time.

Anyways, we'll just sign the top talent as UFA's.
Just because the Avs don't sign/overpay the top FAs, does not mean they are not trying to improve, its just a different philosophy of team building.

I think the Avs have done better in regards to the playoffs and "the prize" over the last 20 years than the Rangers, so I think I'll keep the faith in how our team chooses to get back to consistently making the playoffs and hopefully winning the cup another time or two.

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07-17-2013, 02:26 PM
  #314
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Staal is in no way worth Duchy, Landeskog or Mack when healthy even, that's just absurd.
Correct.

But Ranger fans think he is worth a young top line player, a first round pick, another blue chip prospect, and Sakic's left nut (before someone misinterprets this, I'm not referring to the quoted).

Oh and to top it all off, isn't he a pending UFA? Could be wrong, but if not, this thread becomes even more hilarious.

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07-17-2013, 02:28 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
But Ranger fans think he is worth a young top line player, a first round pick, another blue chip prospect, and Sakic's left nut.
Rangers fans also aren't the ones who started this thread or are looking to trade Staal save for a massive overpayment.

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07-17-2013, 02:32 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Correct.

But Ranger fans think he is worth a young top line player, a first round pick, another blue chip prospect, and Sakic's left nut (before someone misinterprets this, I'm not referring to the quoted).

Oh and to top it all off, isn't he a pending UFA? Could be wrong, but if not, this thread becomes even more hilarious.
No, you are wrong. He has 2 more years left. He is worth A 1st + Bluechip or top line young player and I won't even think twice about saying that. When others see that his eye will be fine and not change his play (pardon the pun) we can have this discussion then.

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07-17-2013, 03:17 PM
  #317
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No, you are wrong. He has 2 more years left. He is worth A 1st + Bluechip or top line young player and I won't even think twice about saying that. When others see that his eye will be fine and not change his play (pardon the pun) we can have this discussion then.
Honestly, that would be the time to have this discussion -- AFTER we see that his eye heals 100%, and has absolutely NO effect on his game.

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07-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Correct.

But Ranger fans think he is worth a young top line player, a first round pick, another blue chip prospect, and Sakic's left nut (before someone misinterprets this, I'm not referring to the quoted).

Oh and to top it all off, isn't he a pending UFA? Could be wrong, but if not, this thread becomes even more hilarious.
What exactly are #1 defensemen with 2 years remaining on his contract with only a 3.795m cap hit worth exactly? Take a look at what defensemen not even close to the shut down D Staal is are getting (Wideman last year, Streit, gonchar) and oh yeah he's only 26

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07-17-2013, 04:40 PM
  #319
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Rangers fans also aren't the ones who started this thread or are looking to trade Staal save for a massive overpayment.
But its not only the Avs fans who think the demands are unreasonable. For example, a user named MartyforVezina is likely not an Avs fan.

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07-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #320
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The thing is while I do feel Staal's value is high, I don't over value him or expect him to land a player like Duchene. The difference is, I'm not willing to trade Staal for a package of lesser parts; his value to us is greater than the sum of those parts would be. We don't have a need for several pieces. We need only one or two choice pieces to get where we need to be. So with that said, I would prefer to only move Staal as part of his own package, such as Staal, Miller/Kreider, 2nd for that top young forward. I would rather add to a Staal package than sell him for a package himself. As others have said, right now, with the eye uncertainty, is probably not the time to discuss it, but that's my take.

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07-17-2013, 04:47 PM
  #321
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The thing is while I do feel Staal's value is high, I don't over value him or expect him to land a player like Duchene. The difference is, I'm not willing to trade Staal for a package of lesser parts; his value to us is greater than the sum of those parts would be. We don't have a need for several pieces. We need only one or two choice pieces to get where we need to be. So with that said, I would prefer to only move Staal as part of his own package, such as Staal, Miller/Kreider, 2nd for that top young forward. I would rather add to a Staal package than sell him for a package himself. As others have said, right now, with the eye uncertainty, is probably not the time to discuss it, but that's my take.
Agreed completely. With the eye issue on everyones mind, staal would never be on the market and buyers wouldnt dare to ask for him. If he recovers, thats when we can compare value.

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07-17-2013, 04:50 PM
  #322
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Go right ahead- sell the farm to bring Marc to Colorado. Then sad face when he comes to Raleigh in 2 years. Waaa Waaa Waaaaaah.

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07-17-2013, 05:31 PM
  #323
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Go right ahead- sell the farm to bring Marc to Colorado. Then sad face when he comes to Raleigh in 2 years. Waaa Waaa Waaaaaah.
Hence why the majority of Avs fans throughout this thread are not wanting to sell the farm and therefore the debate of Staal's value.

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07-17-2013, 09:09 PM
  #324
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That eye injury is scary, don't really want him.
this ^, and he will probably end up with his brothers in Carolina , when he'll be a UFA

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07-17-2013, 09:16 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
But its not only the Avs fans who think the demands are unreasonable. For example, a user named MartyforVezina is likely not an Avs fan.
When it comes to matters pertaining to the Rangers, I'd imagine a user named MartyforVezina would be on the side of whomever is opposite the Rangers.

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