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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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07-16-2013, 07:14 PM
  #826
Tinalera
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TNSE had to buy the team before they could file for a relocation application. Their purchase of the Coyotes or Thrashers had been pending for months, apparently. Even IF they had to get a relo approved before buying the team, it's not like they were the owners who could file an application. ASG, the owners at that time, had no interest in moving the team themselves, so obviously they weren't going to file an application for a relocation.

I think [perhaps] that the By-law refers to an existing owner who would like to move a team. If the NHL is leading the charge in finding a NEW owner and they're considering relocation, it's almost implied that the relocation has been approved by the BOG.
Am I wrong (and cynical) to think that all this stuff amounts to moving goalposts-depending on who they like or want they can move change things at their own convenience?

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07-16-2013, 07:16 PM
  #827
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Am I wrong (and cynical) to think that all this stuff amounts to moving goalposts-depending on who they like or want they can move change things at their own convenience?

No, in fact I believe that rule appears to apply to existing owners who wish to relocate, e.g., Karmanos.

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07-16-2013, 07:35 PM
  #828
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No, in fact I believe that rule appears to apply to existing owners who wish to relocate, e.g., Karmanos.
Yes, but then he too moved the posts all over the rink with the Connecticut Development Authority, the corporate sector & the fans. First, he demanded I believe a minimum of 11,000 ST's be purchased, raises the prices by 20%, then increases the deposit required by 750% while simultaneously eliminating the popular 6, 10, & 20 game mini-packs. Then after the Development Authority agreed to build Karmano's a $147.5M arena (the then Governor didnt support public funds for a new building but went along with it anyway) he turned around and also asked that they give him $45M+ to cover his losses over the 3yrs it'd take to build the thing. Well, he moved that team without even having a proper home or shovels in the ground, much more than a glimmer of a hope. Fortunately it worked out, but whatever rules, by-laws that mightve been applicable at league level? Tossed right out the window.

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07-16-2013, 07:54 PM
  #829
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I think the last time that bylaw was enforced was with the Colorado Rockies. However. that was apparently because the Meadowlands rink hadn't been built yet.

Usually when a team moves, there's a ownership sale. Quick and dirty relocation follows. The bylaw does not prevent that.

So maybe that bylaw is in place in order to keep independently-inclined Governors from going rogue. It's a block to be used as necessary.

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07-16-2013, 07:55 PM
  #830
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Yes, but then he too moved the posts all over the rink with the Connecticut Development Authority, the corporate sector & the fans. First, he demanded I believe a minimum of 11,000 ST's be purchased, raises the prices by 20%, then increases the deposit required by 750% while simultaneously eliminating the popular 6, 10, & 20 game mini-packs. Then after the Development Authority agreed to build Karmano's a $147.5M arena (the then Governor didnt support public funds for a new building but went along with it anyway) he turned around and also asked that they give him $45M+ to cover his losses over the 3yrs it'd take to build the thing. Well, he moved that team without even having a proper home or shovels in the ground, much more than a glimmer of a hope. Fortunately it worked out, but whatever rules, by-laws that mightve been applicable at league level? Tossed right out the window.

I'm not a huge fan of Karmanos, nor of several other NHL owners, and a certain commissioner. I was just pointing out that I "believe" that rule is there for existing owners. What the NHL has been confronted with in recent years with Atlanta and Phoenix seems more driven by the NHL office itself in finding owners, as a result of the existing owners basically handing over the keys.

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07-16-2013, 08:36 PM
  #831
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I'm not a huge fan of Karmanos, nor of several other NHL owners, and a certain commissioner. I was just pointing out that I "believe" that rule is there for existing owners.
Ya pretty much. Sort of "general guidelines" if you will, but flexible.... and no, ditto on Karmano's, however, I do like Jimmy Rutherford so those scales I can balance. Good works with Compuware, terrific support of amateur & Junior hockey in Michigan, the Carolinas.

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07-16-2013, 10:19 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think [perhaps] that the By-law refers to an existing owner who would like to move a team. If the NHL is leading the charge in finding a NEW owner and they're considering relocation, it's almost implied that the relocation has been approved by the BOG.
Yes, that's exactly right. It applies to any owner who wants to move a team whether they've owned the team for 20 years or 20 minutes. If ASG had decided to stay on as owners of the Thrashers but wanted to move the team immediately... if the BOG had decided that was acceptable (not in a million years ), they would have simply voted to allow the short notice.

I can't remember who it was but someone was suggesting that RSE would have difficulty moving the team when they reach the outclause trigger due to the "deadline" bylaw. I was presenting that the bylaw would only be an obstacle if the league wanted it to be. If at that point they decide relocation is the best option they will simply waive the rule.

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07-16-2013, 10:36 PM
  #833
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When does the sale need to be complete by?

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07-16-2013, 10:49 PM
  #834
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When does the sale need to be complete by?
August 4th.

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07-16-2013, 10:51 PM
  #835
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August 4th.
If it gets done it won't be until the last minute, I suspect.

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07-16-2013, 11:14 PM
  #836
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If it gets done it won't be until the last minute, I suspect.
Thats what I figure as well as posted earlier.

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07-17-2013, 01:42 AM
  #837
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When does the sale need to be complete by?
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
August 4th.
Approximately 2 and a half weeks from now

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07-17-2013, 08:38 AM
  #838
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I left these threads in early July thinking that it was all over, but of course the clowns haven't been able to close the deal and this is still going on.

What happens if they can't close by August 4th? Will there have to be a new vote? Can the dead line simply be extended?

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07-17-2013, 08:56 AM
  #839
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I left these threads in early July thinking that it was all over, but of course the clowns haven't been able to close the deal and this is still going on.

What happens if they can't close by August 4th? Will there have to be a new vote? Can the dead line simply be extended?
There's no way that happens. If they cannot close; the NHL, Glendale, Fortress and Renaissance would have to be the biggest bunch of useless, idiotic businessmen since Enron.

Seriously, that's cannot be impossible, since it'd be a disaster for everyone involved.

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07-17-2013, 09:04 AM
  #840
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There's no way that happens. If they cannot close; the NHL, Glendale, Fortress and Renaissance would have to be the biggest bunch of useless, idiotic businessmen since Enron.
Oh there are far, far worse one's out there...

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07-17-2013, 09:21 AM
  #841
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There's no way that happens. If they cannot close; the NHL, Glendale, Fortress and Renaissance would have to be the biggest bunch of useless, idiotic businessmen since Enron.

Seriously, that's cannot be impossible, since it'd be a disaster for everyone involved.
We've already seen Jamison waste a whole lot of time by failing to close several very sweetened deals. I don't see why something similar couldn't happen again.

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07-17-2013, 09:24 AM
  #842
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There's no way that happens.... Seriously, that cannot be possible, since it'd be a disaster for everyone involved.
Oh? Now Ace, youve been following this closely enough for quite some time now. Anythings possible. What the odds might be of failure to close & launch I know not, but I dont think its in the 99.9% certainty range that it does. "Stuff" could be happening or building that see this thing being derailed temporarily or whatever. No idea, but until its announced formally, signed, sealed & delivered....

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07-17-2013, 09:29 AM
  #843
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Oh? Now Ace, youve been following this closely enough for quite some time now. Anythings possible. What the odds might be of failure to close & launch I know not, but I dont think its in the 99.9% certainty range that it does. "Stuff" could be happening or building that see this thing being derailed temporarily or whatever. No idea, but until its announced formally, signed, sealed & delivered....
Seems to me like the longer it takes the less likely it is that it will happen at all. Would you agree with that?

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07-17-2013, 09:53 AM
  #844
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Seems to me like the longer it takes the less likely it is that it will happen at all. Would you agree with that?
Not in this case, no, as the nature of this deal is so complicated & complex, youve just gotta figure it'd take the Attorneys from multiple parties some time to finalize all of the agreements. An awful lot of Devil in the details, reams of paper, clauses. When one considers how in comparison a $1.5B deal in Toronto for MLSE was essentially closed over 2 weeks, Vinik's purchase of the Lightning taking about 6-8 weeks, then consider that Glendale approved the Lease on July 2nd with an August 4th Deadline for RSE & the NHL to close, well, speaks more to what is actually fairly common in deals of this nature, sports & entertainment properties, really in any number of fields. The smaller deals, and those that are highly leveraged as this one surely is, they often maddeningly seem to take forever. At least there is a fairly short window to get it finalized and there are in fact more than just a few potentially fatal obstacles that need to be diffused and waited out somewhat.

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07-17-2013, 09:58 AM
  #845
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We've already seen Jamison waste a whole lot of time by failing to close several very sweetened deals. I don't see why something similar couldn't happen again.
That's not the same thing. Jamison didn't have his financing ready, and the deal was conditionnal on that.

However, everything is apparently ready in the Renaissance case.

Maybe I'm wrong, but on thing is for sure; it'd be a disaster for the NHL and Glendale if the deal fell appart.

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07-17-2013, 10:23 AM
  #846
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That's not the same thing. Jamison didn't have his financing ready, and the deal was conditionnal on that.

However, everything is apparently ready in the Renaissance case.

Maybe I'm wrong, but on thing is for sure; it'd be a disaster for the NHL and Glendale if the deal fell appart.
Which is why I think it'll take until the deadline. The NHL will have to throw more stuff in to actually complete the sale.

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07-17-2013, 11:33 AM
  #847
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Not in this case, no, as the nature of this deal is so complicated & complex, youve just gotta figure it'd take the Attorneys from multiple parties some time to finalize all of the agreements. An awful lot of Devil in the details, reams of paper, clauses. When one considers how in comparison a $1.5B deal in Toronto for MLSE was essentially closed over 2 weeks, Vinik's purchase of the Lightning taking about 6-8 weeks, then consider that Glendale approved the Lease on July 2nd with an August 4th Deadline for RSE & the NHL to close, well, speaks more to what is actually fairly common in deals of this nature, sports & entertainment properties, really in any number of fields. The smaller deals, and those that are highly leveraged as this one surely is, they often maddeningly seem to take forever. At least there is a fairly short window to get it finalized and there are in fact more than just a few potentially fatal obstacles that need to be diffused and waited out somewhat.
Adding - With Mr. Vinik's purchase of the Lightning, it too was due to the complexities of the deal. Assumption of debt - i.e. team debt (and maintenance lapses) and what was still owed by the "original" clowns to the Davidson family (they financed half of the original deal with Koules/Barrie).

Perhaps it's the referendum phase? Once that referendum deadline passes then the announcement will be made.

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07-17-2013, 11:35 AM
  #848
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Should this deal fall apart, it is easy to see what will happen! Just cue up the replays beginning in year one of this charade. The NHL resumes ownership, takes the $6.5MM AMF and then puts out a terse statement saying that they are disappointed that they were unable to close, but they will continue to work with RSE in an effort to forge a new deal in the coming months.

Frankly, I hope this happens and somehow the midget Commish gets egg on his face. He deserves such, given the shady nature of this deal. What fascinates me are the number of moving parts in the leverage equation and the "Blue Sky" projections attached to the contingent revenue streams available to the COG. One way or the other, there is ample opportunity for those streams to come in well below projections. That will be the first domino to fall, and with it will come the rest of the pyramid scheme. It is almost as if they expect it to fail, and with it will come immediate talk of premature relocation.

The out-clause will be fast forwarded, perhaps RSE escapes to another location with a modest profit or loss and the COG comes out far better off w/o the team and a competent arena manager who is capable of filling the empty dates.

The dirty little secret is that Fortress is known to be an impatient investor. If there is a hint of trouble surrounding revenue streams they will play a very aggressive hand, forcing the poor RSE group to hand over the equity. At that point they will have the NHL and the midget in their crosshairs and will make life for the BOG miserable. This story is not going to have a good outcome for the simple reason that has existed since day one: the economic fundamentals of team ownership do no support the financial shenanigans being played in this drama. Too much hope and a prayer, too much internal interest being charged, too little public money available (the COG is broke) a poor location, poor fan interest(particularly at the new inflated ticket prices). Rising expense levels, the team travels four times to the East Coast, higher coaching and admin expenses (both DT and DM signed on for much more money as well as their staffs). They have managed to do a lot on the ice with relatively little talent. Shane Doan is year older, mike Smith is a question mark, and their FA moves are uninspiring at best. Lack of on -ice success will exacerbate all of the issues above.

This thread will have nine lives, what we witnessed the last four years will pale in comparison to what we will see going forward. The new actors, starring the rookie owner "tony" will be comedy at its finest. Yes folks, the circus is coming to town and we get to watch the three rings with amusement as they attempt to keep our eyes averted from the behind the scenes train wreck!


Last edited by mesamonster: 07-17-2013 at 11:41 AM.
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07-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #849
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Part of the reason that it will take until the end is because Jones has until 8/2 to get the petitions signed. My source in the area tells me that Jones is claiming to have 25 circulators on the ground, but they haven't been in the places they normally are (malls, library, etc.) so they suspect that they are going door-to-door.

So if they can get 10000 signatures and drop them off at 4:59 on 8/2 there may not be enough time to validate them by the 4th.

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07-17-2013, 11:55 AM
  #850
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Part of the reason that it will take until the end is because Jones has until 8/2 to get the petitions signed. My source in the area tells me that Jones is claiming to have 25 circulators on the ground, but they haven't been in the places they normally are (malls, library, etc.) so they suspect that they are going door-to-door.

So if they can get 10000 signatures and drop them off at 4:59 on 8/2 there may not be enough time to validate them by the 4th.
I wonder if the Fire and Police are helping to get signatures? They are the ones who have been defecated on by the incompetent Chavira and Sherwood! Time for redemption for the city workers and the taxpayers of Glendale whose ballot box votes were ignored by a group of corrupt rogue politicians. Yet to be seen is who got to Chavira and greased him?

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