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The Out of Town Thread part LXV - All Talk From Around the League Here

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:39 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Seen him play in person about 20 times. He isn't very good.
In 5 years fighting could be gone from hockey....keep that in mind..

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07-17-2013, 01:39 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Seen him play in person about 20 times. He isn't very good.
I'll take Timmins scouting ability over yours 100 times out of 100.

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07-17-2013, 01:41 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'll take Timmins scouting ability over yours 100 times out of 100.
Timmins never makes mistakes I guess.

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07-17-2013, 01:41 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Well it's a gradual process...obviously at that point he had survived all the cuts and, by process of elimination, was looking like a certainty to make the team.

What would be more fruitful would be to look at where people expected Gallagher to play in 2012-2013 in the off-season. If you look at projected lineups for that year, I bet very few would have Gallagher's name on them. I think it was generally accepted that he would play at least a full year in the AHL before jumping to the big leagues.

So maybe not "shocking"...but I think it's a bit revisionist to say Gallagher was even expected to make the team last year.
I guess. Him making the team just never seemed like something that wasn't even an option. With Nokelainen hurt and Gomez sent home before camp, there were openings for roster spots at training camp. It just never seemed that far fetched for Gallagher to impress and make an opportunity for himself to stick, especially when he was extremely close the year prior.

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07-17-2013, 01:47 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
How many guys left NJ ,and became more successful?
Rafalski? Niedermayer? I don't know, these names just came through my head.

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07-17-2013, 01:47 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Timmins never makes mistakes I guess.
You apparently don't...

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07-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'll take Timmins scouting ability over yours 100 times out of 100.
Days of fighting are numbered...So until it is banned, we still got to protect
our players...




NHLPA Fehr wants to address issue of fighting
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1434281

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07-17-2013, 01:50 PM
  #758
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Rafalski? Niedermayer? I don't know, these names just came through my head.
Both guys were better in NJ. At best you can argue they were the same.

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07-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
To the MB whine club, this be from the lips of MB...
Although I agree with having to draft well, the blackhawks did get Toews at 3rd overall and Kane at 1st. Although it was ages ago, they did trade for Sharpe and signed Hossa as a UFA. Those are their 4 top forwards. Fortunate or unfortunate the Habs have not had a #1 pick overall and have not been able to attract a Hossa type free agent. Both those players, Kane and Hossa have been big contributors in winning 2 cups. I dont think Chicago is the proper model to compare the Habs too and how they should build a team.

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07-17-2013, 01:53 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Both guys were better in NJ. At best you can argue they were the same.
Ya but both won the Stanley Cup after they left NJ. Not bad. They were the same, I agree.

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:56 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
Although I agree with having to draft well, the blackhawks did get Toews at 3rd overall and Kane at 1st. Although it was ages ago, they did trade for Sharpe and signed Hossa as a UFA. Those are their 4 top forwards. Fortunate or unfortunate the Habs have not had a #1 pick overall and have not been able to attract a Hossa type free agent. Both those players, Kane and Hossa have been big contributors in winning 2 cups. I dont think Chicago is the proper model to compare the Habs too and they should build a team.
Campbell, Ladd were also traded for in their first cup run. I believe they acquired Madden at the deadline if I'm not mistaken as well. Kopecky was signed as a UFA as was Sopel (though in 2007). You could add Versteeg to that list as well. They weren't directly responsible for the cup win, but the Hawks team wasn't all built entirely through the draft. You could say that once you have a solid core, which is mostly to come about through drafting well, you can afford to trade and sign players, and a core of Toews, Seabrooke, Kane and Keith is about as solid as you can get.

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07-17-2013, 01:59 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
To the MB whine club, this be from the lips of MB...
And teams that build exclusively through the draft have a bad track record. You need to do everything, draft well, trade well, sign good UFAs. Building through the draft isn't a magical formula pretty much every team tries to do this. There's also a big difference between building with top-5 picks and building with picks in the 20s which is what we are getting.

We've built our core through the draft already. Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller (Traded For), etc... We were the 4th best team in the league last year, but late in the year and in playoffs some weakness were exposed. Trying to address those weakness via the draft is stupid because by the time guys like MacCarron are ready the team will be completely different and likely have different set of weaknesses.

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07-17-2013, 02:07 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Niederreiter isn't anywhere close to Beaulieu's value. Try Leblanc.
I wouldn't be so sure, people forget he's only 20. Nino was really impressive in the lockout AHL pre-asking for trade was made public and WC. Leblanc is older and couldn't even put up points as Nino got goals.

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07-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I wouldn't be so sure, people forget he's only 20. Nino was really impressive in the lockout AHL pre-asking for trade was made public and WC. Leblanc is older and couldn't even put up points as Nino got goals.
Nino requested a trade before his ELC was even up. Guys like that nerf their value immeasurably.

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07-17-2013, 02:12 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Timmins never makes mistakes I guess.
He does for sure, but how do you know this isn't a pick that's coming from Bergevin?

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07-17-2013, 02:17 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
He does for sure, but how do you know this isn't a pick that's coming from Bergevin?
I never said anything about who made the pick.

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07-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Trades and UFA have proven to fail over and over in terms of building a core. Building through the draft has much higher odds, especially when you are a team that has a good drafting track record.

Trades and UFa should be used for "finish" on a team, adding depth, rentals or role players once the core is already there.
LA Kings.

Edmonton Oilers.


One used a big trade. One is relying on the draft. One has recently won a Cup.

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07-17-2013, 03:04 PM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
LA Kings.

Edmonton Oilers.


One used a big trade. One is relying on the draft. One has recently won a Cup.
And yet, the core of their team was built...through the draft (captain, #1 centre, #1 defenseman, starting goalie). You're seem to be ignoring the fact that L.A. went through the same lean years that Edmonton is currently enduring. If you call the Kings a team that was built on trades...not sure what to say to that honestly. As Monctonscout said, they "finished" their team off with the Carter & Richards trades. They weren't the foundation of the team, their drafting was.

The Kings won the Cup 4 years after they drafted Doughty, 7 years after they drafted Quick & Kopitar, and 9 years after they drafted Brown. Let's not pretend this Cup winner was put together overnight after a couple of shrewd trades.

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07-17-2013, 03:09 PM
  #769
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Also hard to say the Oilers are building through the draft when they seemingly stop scouting at the 1st overall pick.

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #770
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I remember when McTavish was on TSN he used to always talk about how great Plekanec is and how underrated he is....

Wonder if he would be willing to entertain a package of Pleks + for Yakupov

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:48 PM
  #771
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I like Clifford and I don't really care if he can fight or not. That wouldn't be his primary role on the Habs. We need someone who is going to hit and wear down opposing defenseman. Habs were interested in Torres at the deadline for that reason alone. I think MB would be interested in Clifford. I think he can play both wings too. He might be skilled enough offensively to move up and down the line-up a bit like Prust.

I wonder what L.A. is looking to get for him?

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07-17-2013, 03:54 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
And yet, the core of their team was built...through the draft (captain, #1 centre, #1 defenseman, starting goalie). You're seem to be ignoring the fact that L.A. went through the same lean years that Edmonton is currently enduring. If you call the Kings a team that was built on trades...not sure what to say to that honestly. As Monctonscout said, they "finished" their team off with the Carter & Richards trades. They weren't the foundation of the team, their drafting was.

The Kings won the Cup 4 years after they drafted Doughty, 7 years after they drafted Quick & Kopitar, and 9 years after they drafted Brown. Let's not pretend this Cup winner was put together overnight after a couple of shrewd trades.
In LA's case it was only after they stopped building through the draft and started acquiring veterans that can play right away that they won the cup. Had they kept Schenn, Johnson and company they would still be similar to Edmonton right now. So saying it was X years after being drafted is meaningless. Doughty, Kopitar were good from their rookie years. Brown took only a few seasons to get his groove.

As it relates to us we have already drafted an all-star goalie, a Norris winning D, a 1st line Winger, a potential elite #1 Center along with a slew of other good players. We also don't lack quality veterans like LA did. The time for building our core through the draft should be over.

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07-17-2013, 03:59 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
LA Kings.

Edmonton Oilers.


One used a big trade. One is relying on the draft. One has recently won a Cup.
LA built it's core through the draft.

Edmonton's problem is they have drafted poorly(other than their #1's and Eberle) and have weak veterans. If they ever surround their young stars like Chicago did they might win a cup.

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07-17-2013, 04:03 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
In LA's case it was only after they stopped building through the draft and started acquiring veterans that can play right away that they won the cup. Had they kept Schenn, Johnson and company they would still be similar to Edmonton right now. So saying it was X years after being drafted is meaningless. Doughty, Kopitar were good from their rookie years. Brown took only a few seasons to get his groove.

As it relates to us we have already drafted an all-star goalie, a Norris winning D, a 1st line Winger, a potential elite #1 Center along with a slew of other good players. We also don't lack quality veterans like LA did. The time for building our core through the draft should be over.
No matter how you slice it, their core was built through the draft, not UFA or trades.

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07-17-2013, 04:06 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
No matter how you slice it, their core was built through the draft, not UFA or trades.

Edmonton's problem is they have drafted poorly(other than their #1's and Eberle) and have weak veterans. If they ever surround their young stars like Chicago did they might win a cup.
LA's was built through all 3. And like you just said if Edmonton wants to do ever do something they will have to trade/sign for established players to surround their stars if they want to compete for the cup

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