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The Coming Big Dump

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Old
07-08-2013, 10:07 PM
  #101
jhaf1210
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
The bolded is exactly what I think is happening. Poile does not believe we're close to being contenders. I think Poile believes we are still very much in the middle of a rebuilding process that is going to take longer than most of us would like or think it should. If we make the playoffs, great, but I don't think that is his goal right now. I think he is waiting to see what we have in the system.

Given who we picked up this summer (a young project winger + 3 grizzled vets known for high work ethic), I think it shows we are grooming the young forwards, and waiting for them to develop into our core. One particular problem from last season, was the lazy and somewhat immature play of our young forwards. They're not being pushed hard enough and IMO feel too comfortable with their spot in the lineup. The 3 vets we brought in are here to show them how it's done, and bump them down the depth chart if they start slacking. The ultimate goal is to instill the work ethic and grit of the mentors, with the natural skill of the young forwards. Hopefully, they'll mature into hard working scoring forwards.

So rather than going all out on a scoring forward (which we still need), our goal for the next couple of seasons is to continue to develop our young players and prospects. It's the only way I can make sense of the summer so far. I know the general believe is that "we're only a piece or two away from contending," but the truth is we're still very much rebuilding and it's going to take time. I don't think we're gonna be in the market for a scoring forward for another year or two, at least.
I think that is probably exactly what DP is thinking and in normal circumstances I wouldn't really question him, he has proven time and time again he knows exactly what he is doing. The wild cards here though are both the new divisions probably making a playoff spot a little easier for us to at least contend for, and the cap going up next year. I usually don't buy into the "we're just one player away...." talk, but considering the wildcards I mentioned, I think if you could add a true 1st/2nd line center then we would be right there with anyone in the 2nd tier of the West (St. L, SJ, Minn, Dal, Van). Add in several teams who are probably going to have to move a quality player or two to get under the cap this year, and the fact that we have a few tradeable assests (Smith, Ellis, Ekholm, Watson, Leipsic) and I think it is either make your move this year or try to tread water for at least two seasons and hope for the best. Because when the cap goes up next year all the "big market" teams are going to spend like they just hit the lottery, and we just can't compete with that so all that will be left for us will be the same 3rd line FAs we always get. The stars are kind of aligning themselves for a deal to be made, but I think it would go against everything DP believes in to do it. So he won't unless it comes from ownership to do it. Which I think brings up a real interesting question, how long can the local owners go without the extra playoff revenue? I don't want to start saying there are problems, but between the lockout, Weber's bonuses, and not making the playoffs the owners could not have made out well last year and its not like they are the most deep pocketed owners in the NHL anyway. I am not complaining about them at all, in fact I think the FA signings show a real commitment to the team and trying to win. But they are business men, if you loose too much money eventually have to do something else. Also if you don't make the playoffs the next two years what does that do to the fan base? We have come such a long way from the beginning, I would hate to see us loose momentum because we aren't as competitive as we were. Rebuilding really isn't a luxury this franchise has. It is either win now to keep winning or lose now and who knows what will happen.


Last edited by jhaf1210: 07-08-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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07-09-2013, 07:30 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
You are probably right, but I think adding an upper echelon scorer puts this team firmly in the contender mix. We have too much defensive talent and a superstar goalie/norris caliber defenseman.
No such thing.

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07-09-2013, 07:35 AM
  #103
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No such thing.
And to add, we really aren't that deep at D. I realize our top-4 is set for a long time, but what about injury? Assuming both Ellis and Ekholm make the team out of camp, and Bartley is the 7th, who do we call up? Did we retain Brennen?

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07-09-2013, 07:48 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
And to add, we really aren't that deep at D. I realize our top-4 is set for a long time, but what about injury? Assuming both Ellis and Ekholm make the team out of camp, and Bartley is the 7th, who do we call up? Did we retain Brennen?
We didn't retain Brennan. I also see a need for some depth at D.

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07-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
And to add, we really aren't that deep at D. I realize our top-4 is set for a long time, but what about injury? Assuming both Ellis and Ekholm make the team out of camp, and Bartley is the 7th, who do we call up? Did we retain Brennen?
He signed with Toronto.

I would say having your top 4 retained at the talent level they possess is pretty phenomenal.

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07-09-2013, 09:49 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Vanek, statsny, hemsky, gaborik, pominville will all most likely hit FA... While kessel, thorton, callahan, bergeron all have a possibility to hit FA as well...

That class is 100% stronger than this years. I understand your point legionare but it really is much better.
Can't speak to the others, but Kekalainen has indicated that resigning Gaborik is a priority of his, so "likely" is perhaps a tad strong.

Also, Callahan is the NYR's captain. I really, really doubt they let him go.

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07-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Vanek, statsny, hemsky, gaborik, pominville will all most likely hit FA... While kessel, thorton, callahan, bergeron all have a possibility to hit FA as well...

That class is 100% stronger than this years. I understand your point legionare but it really is much better.
This mantra gets thrown around all the time, but teams will generally find ways to keep their best players. Everybody thought Giroux was going to be a prime target for an offer sheet next summer, but the Flyers locked him up within days, if not hours of being allowed to do so under league regulations.

Most of those players you listed will not reach free agency. Stastny and Hemsky will go; Vanek and Gaborik might. I would chalk up the rest as "very unlikely." If we're getting a high-end offensive player, it's either via trade or at the draft, and we went 0/2 this year.

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07-09-2013, 10:27 AM
  #108
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There certainly weren't any home runs available as UFAs. Sure, I would have liked Grabovski, and we all had our favorites. But the UFA crop was a bunch of flawed forwards. Heck, there's probably a better than decent chance Cullen out produces Grabo (and Roy) the next two years while playing better defense and being more durable (knock on wood).

I honestly believe were a much better team than we were last year. Not even close. We've got a shootout specialist (6 shootout losses last year), quality forward depth, a possible lottery ticket that could pay off big in Stalberg, and grit so we won't get tossed around by St. Louis anymore (hopefully).

I want that big time scorer as much as anyone, but I don't know if there was one to be had so far this offseason.
I initially had an issue with what you said but after doing some research and number crunching I do think Cullen will do well, my issue with Cullen is that he is 35yo and has played over 1000 games. Averages 40 pts/yr and 14gls/yr, 27 pts in a shortened season. I believe he will reach his avg's or exceed them this yr.

I also looked a Grabovski, Roy and Stalberg. Roy is the most consistant producer of the three but has also played the most games of the three. Although just one yr older than Grabo (29), Roy (30) has played 3 more seasons and scored at a much higher rate 50.5pts vs 36.2pts respectively. Roy would have been the safer bet to try and get. Of course Grabo may not have been used wisely and would flourish in a different system than where Toronto had him. Time will tell.

Stalberg's numbers aren't that great except that he has as many goals (52) as he does assists (52). One of the big things Stalberg has is his age, 25yo. Hopefully he can flourish in our system and become a dynamic scorer for the Preds. His 26 pts/yr avg was the least of the three. And is signed at a much better rate than say Grabovski will get.

Although not the flashy moves that we as fans would have liked, I think they were all solid moves and should no doubt make us a better team next yr. Especially if some of our young players (FF, Jones, Watson, Beck, Aberg, Sissons) and some of the little more experienced players (Wilson, Smith, Bourque, Ellis, Josi) step up. The older guys do what they are supposed to do, we will be a playoff team for sure.

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07-09-2013, 10:33 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Can't speak to the others, but Kekalainen has indicated that resigning Gaborik is a priority of his, so "likely" is perhaps a tad strong.

Also, Callahan is the NYR's captain. I really, really doubt they let him go.
I'm not sure if Gaborik is on the down slope of his career but he was awesome in years 1 & 3 in his year in NY ... had 27 points in 47 games last season ... will be 32 in the middle of next year and only had 1 really good/great playoff run (Minnesota's run in '02-'03)

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07-09-2013, 10:41 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by weeze View Post
I initially had an issue with what you said but after doing some research and number crunching I do think Cullen will do well, my issue with Cullen is that he is 35yo and has played over 1000 games. Averages 40 pts/yr and 14gls/yr, 27 pts in a shortened season. I believe he will reach his avg's or exceed them this yr.

I also looked a Grabovski, Roy and Stalberg. Roy is the most consistant producer of the three but has also played the most games of the three. Although just one yr older than Grabo (29), Roy (30) has played 3 more seasons and scored at a much higher rate 50.5pts vs 36.2pts respectively. Roy would have been the safer bet to try and get. Of course Grabo may not have been used wisely and would flourish in a different system than where Toronto had him. Time will tell.

Stalberg's numbers aren't that great except that he has as many goals (52) as he does assists (52). One of the big things Stalberg has is his age, 25yo. Hopefully he can flourish in our system and become a dynamic scorer for the Preds. His 26 pts/yr avg was the least of the three. And is signed at a much better rate than say Grabovski will get.
I like this comparison. Good work - we get a guy going into his prime and signed for less.

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07-09-2013, 01:50 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I'm not sure if Gaborik is on the down slope of his career but he was awesome in years 1 & 3 in his year in NY ... had 27 points in 47 games last season ... will be 32 in the middle of next year and only had 1 really good/great playoff run (Minnesota's run in '02-'03)
Point, but the only impact that likely has on Kekalainen's retention attempts is the spending limits he'll go by.

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07-09-2013, 03:03 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
This mantra gets thrown around all the time, but teams will generally find ways to keep their best players. Everybody thought Giroux was going to be a prime target for an offer sheet next summer, but the Flyers locked him up within days, if not hours of being allowed to do so under league regulations.

Most of those players you listed will not reach free agency. Stastny and Hemsky will go; Vanek and Gaborik might. I would chalk up the rest as "very unlikely." If we're getting a high-end offensive player, it's either via trade or at the draft, and we went 0/2 this year.
It's worth noting that Toronto currently has over $10m in cap space, and they have 11 forwards, 5 defensemen and 2 goalies under contract. I don't think one season for Kadri, a partial one at that, is going to warrant a big contract. I would imagine he gets a couple of million over a couple of years. Then all they really need to do is throw a little bit of money at one of Franson, Gunnarsson or Fraser (probably Gunnarsson as there are reports of Franson maybe wanting to hold out, possibly for a trade). On top of that, I think, at most, Kessel will be looking for 7yrs at $7m, which is only $1.6m more than he makes now. I see no way Kessel hits the FA market unless he simply doesn't like being the go-to guy on an up-and-coming Leafs squad.

I think Stastny, Hemsky and Vanek are all three certain to go if they aren't traded, and even then there is the possibility. The rest? Doubtful at best. I think Columbus will be able to retain Gabby, and the others on CBzP's list will stay where they are.

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07-09-2013, 04:06 PM
  #113
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I know everyone is saying Ellis isnt in play but I think pending a sure re-signing of Vanek, we could probably get him for Smith + Ellis and a first. I feel like there are probably a good amount of GMs that still see the potential in Smith.

I know we haven't been able to nab really big goal scorers such as Vanek because we're Nashville and guys just don't see the potential and love of hockey on our city but when you look at it I feel like Vanek would want to play here with the right words and persuasion. Look at what we have; Wilson only getting better, Forsberg IMO is gonna turn out and end up being a great pickup. He's highly touted and only fell I'm the draft because of an onslaught of defenseman being taken high. Cullen and Stalberg signings are somewhat of a smart pitch of us trying to get better offensively and then the huge sell is we have Weber, Rinne, Josi and Horns signed long term and got arguably the best player in the draft. The sell is there. We just need Poile and Trotz to sell it and sell it hard.

It's for those reasons I feel it hard to believe Vanek wouldn't wanna re-sign here.

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07-09-2013, 04:10 PM
  #114
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I know everyone is saying Ellis isnt in play but I think pending a sure re-signing of Vanek, we could probably get him for Smith + Ellis and a first. I feel like there are probably a good amount of GMs that still see the potential in Smith.

I know we haven't been able to nab really big goal scorers such as Vanek because we're Nashville and guys just don't see the potential and love of hockey on our city but when you look at it I feel like Vanek would want to play here with the right words and persuasion. Look at what we have; Wilson only getting better, Forsberg IMO is gonna turn out and end up being a great pickup. He's highly touted and only fell I'm the draft because of an onslaught of defenseman being taken high. Cullen and Stalberg signings are somewhat of a smart pitch of us trying to get better offensively and then the huge sell is we have Weber, Rinne, Josi and Horns signed long term and got arguably the best player in the draft. The sell is there. We just need Poile and Trotz to sell it and sell it hard.

It's for those reasons I feel it hard to believe Vanek wouldn't wanna re-sign here.
I'm not sure that we have the space. I know it's weird talking about it, but it's true. We'd be taking on $3.5 with a crappy backup goalie and paper thin defensive depth.

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07-10-2013, 02:37 AM
  #115
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Poile said in presser that roster holes have been filled and things are set. I wouldn't expect mech more.
Yes but if you listen to trotz later in the presser he said poile will try to make team better seeing how we have "assets" now.

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07-17-2013, 07:57 AM
  #116
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So the latest from CapGeek has us with almost $6.2 in cap space. This does not include:

Forsberg ($1,460,833)
Bonuses
A legitimate backup (please) / Carter Hutton ($550,000)
Spaling

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07-17-2013, 08:10 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
So the latest from CapGeek has us with almost $6.2 in cap space. This does not include:

Forsberg ($1,460,833)
Bonuses
A legitimate backup (please) / Carter Hutton ($550,000)
Spaling
You also forgot Watson, who owned the development camp scrimmage

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07-17-2013, 08:14 AM
  #118
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You also forgot Watson, who owned the development camp scrimmage
the 6.2 mil figure is with 21 players in the mix, so if Watson makes the team he will replace someone else whose caphit is already in the calculation

I dont know how much of Forsbergs caphit is bonuses but he will probably only take up 900k like jones until he earns his bonus money.

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07-17-2013, 08:15 AM
  #119
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I dont know how much of Forsbergs caphit is bonuses but he will probably only take up 900k like jones until he earns his bonus money.
Good call...didn't think about that.

For the record, Watson's hit is $1.1 not including bonuses.

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07-17-2013, 03:29 PM
  #120
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Hemsky
Pitlick


Spaling
Smith
Gaustad

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07-17-2013, 04:15 PM
  #121
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Hemsky
Pitlick


Spaling
Smith
Gaustad
Spaling and a pick for Hemsky I have already proposed. Smith you can have(I would give him up as a salary dump), but Gaustad is NOT going to be traded.. Poile just spent a huge wad on fleshing out our 4th line and he isnt going to move Goose now.

I dont know about Pitlick so i wont comment on that

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07-23-2013, 07:28 AM
  #122
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Cap Update: CapGeek has us with almost $4.7 in space. This does not include:

Forsberg (?) ($1,460,833)
Watson (?) ($1,111,667)
Bonuses
A legitimate backup (please) / Carter Hutton ($550,000)

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07-23-2013, 07:39 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Cap Update: CapGeek has us with almost $4.7 in space. This does not include:

Forsberg (?) ($1,460,833)
Watson (?) ($1,111,667)
Bonuses
A legitimate backup (please) / Carter Hutton ($550,000)
I don't see Watson on the team to start unless Spaling or someone else is traded.

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07-23-2013, 07:44 AM
  #124
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I don't see Watson on the team to start unless Spaling or someone else is traded.
Possibly not, just wanted to cover the bases. To add, guys that are included in that figure include Smith ($2 mil), Spaling ($1.5), and Beck ($886,667).

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07-23-2013, 07:59 AM
  #125
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I don't think Watson OR Beck start the year in Nashville unless they come into camp and blow away the competition. They'd basically have to force Poile to make a trade. Otherwise they start in Milwaukee just because they're eligible to do so.

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