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Teams that play a lot of rookies tend to lose a lot of games

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:13 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I've seen most lineups include a 4th line LW and a 6th/7th defenseman (Stanton)
Most lineups have NOT included Stanton, seeing as ALL 7 Dmen are returning until Stan deals Brookbank, at which point they aren't. Furthermore, saying Stanton has been included as a 6 is complete lunacy; you just made that up to help your argument.

This lineup will only have 3 rookies max on a given night if managed correctly:

Bickell-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Pirri-Hossa
Saad-Shaw-Morin
Kruger-Handzus-Smith

Bollig-Hayes

Seabrook-Keith
Hjalmarsson-Oduya
Leddy-Rozsival

Brookbank/Stanton

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07-17-2013, 03:14 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Thats because most players that do that aren't any good and don't amount to anything. You know who played his first full season at age 25? Stalberg and he scored 24 points.
So what? Ever consider that Ben Smith has been snake bitten with injuries the last two years in the AHL.

Ben Smith in 8 career playoff games has scored 3 career playoff goals while Viktor Stalberg in 32 career playoff games has scored only 1 career playoff goal. Viktor Stalberg is no big loss whatsoever.

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07-17-2013, 03:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I've seen most lineups include a 4th line LW and a 6th/7th defenseman (Stanton)
That's a bunch of bull since Coach Q has not even finalized a roster for the 2013-14 NHL Season.

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07-17-2013, 03:18 PM
  #29
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Hawks aren't like those other teams. They still have depth, still have the same D and goalie that won them the Cup. They only lost 3 bottom 6 players that get replaced by Rookies... That's not like most of those other teams

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07-17-2013, 03:19 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Most lineups have NOT included Stanton, seeing as ALL 7 Dmen are returning until Stan deals Brookbank, at which point they aren't. Furthermore, saying Stanton has been included as a 6 is complete lunacy; you just made that up to help your argument.

This lineup will only have 3 rookies max on a given night if managed correctly:

Bickell-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Pirri-Hossa
Saad-Shaw-Morin
Kruger-Handzus-Smith

Bollig-Hayes

Seabrook-Keith
Hjalmarsson-Oduya
Leddy-Rozsival

Brookbank/Stanton
Lots of people have Stanton as the 7th defenseman. And guess what, the 7th defenseman is going to play a lot this season with Roszival on the roster. In fact, you just posted this roster with Stanton on the team!

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Bryan Bickell ($4.000m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Brandon Pirri ($0.870m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Brandon Saad ($0.894m) / Andrew Shaw ($0.578m) / Jeremy Morin ($0.887m)
Brandon Bollig ($0.575m) / Marcus Kruger ($1.325m) / Ben Smith ($0.563m)
Michal Handzus ($1.000m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Johnny Oduya ($3.383m)
Nick Leddy ($2.700m) / Michal Rozsival ($2.200m)
Ryan Stanton ($0.578m) / Sheldon Brookbank ($1.250m)

GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.667m)
Nikolai Khabibulin ($2.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,081,795; BONUSES: $677,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $895,705

Waiver Non-Exempt
Ben Smith

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
So what? Ever consider that Ben Smith has been snake bitten with injuries the last two years in the AHL.

Ben Smith in 8 career playoff games has scored 3 career playoff goals while Viktor Stalberg in 32 career playoff games has scored only 1 career playoff goal. Viktor Stalberg is no big loss whatsoever.
Snake bitten? Possibly, but from what I've seen, he's just not very good. He's an ok skater that goes to the dirty areas but he doesn't really excell in any area.

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07-17-2013, 03:21 PM
  #32
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And Stanton's played the fewest games as a Hawk. The main three, the guys that will be in the line-up every game, all have games under their belt. They're rookies, but they're not completely naïve to the NHL's speed/strength.

Again, I really don't see this as a big deal. The rookies Chicago has are talented and very experienced Pros. They deserve the shots they'll get this fall and I'm very confident they'll make the most of it.

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07-17-2013, 03:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Most lineups have NOT included Stanton, seeing as ALL 7 Dmen are returning until Stan deals Brookbank, at which point they aren't. Furthermore, saying Stanton has been included as a 6 is complete lunacy; you just made that up to help your argument.

This lineup will only have 3 rookies max on a given night if managed correctly:

Bickell-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Pirri-Hossa
Saad-Shaw-Morin
Kruger-Handzus-Smith

Bollig-Hayes

Seabrook-Keith
Hjalmarsson-Oduya
Leddy-Rozsival

Brookbank/Stanton
If Coach Q does not like Pirri, the Chicago Blackhawks may start one of the following lineups:

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Handzus - Hossa
Saad - Shaw - Morin
Bollig - Kruger - Smith

Bickell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Kruger - Hossa
Saad - Shaw - Morin
Bollig - Handzus - Smith

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07-17-2013, 03:23 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Snake bitten? Possibly, but from what I've seen, he's just not very good. He's an ok skater that goes to the dirty areas but he doesn't really excell in any area.
And what more could you ask for from a 4th liner? He goes to the net, he's a solid two-way player, and he'll get involved along the boards. I never bought into the hype around him after the 2011 playoffs, but I've always been a big fan of his. He's a winner. That's what he cares about. He'll find a way to contribute and be effective on the Hawks.

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Lots of people have Stanton as the 7th defenseman. And guess what, the 7th defenseman is going to play a lot this season with Roszival on the roster. In fact, you just posted this roster with Stanton on the team!
So you're already backtracking from calling him a #6?

That was easier than I thought it would be

And my lineup includes him as in he's only here if Brookbank is traded, both won't be here.

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by HockeySensible View Post
And what more could you ask for from a 4th liner? He goes to the net, he's a solid two-way player, and he'll get involved along the boards. I never bought into the hype around him after the 2011 playoffs, but I've always been a big fan of his. He's a winner. That's what he cares about. He'll find a way to contribute and be effective on the Hawks.
You could ask for them to be an elite penalty killer like Frolik was, or even a very good penalty killer like Bolland was.

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07-17-2013, 03:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Snake bitten?
Read the damn article:

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=621200

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
So you're already backtracking from calling him a #6?

That was easier than I thought it would be

And my lineup includes him as in he's only here if Brookbank is traded, both won't be here.
The reason I included him as a 6th defenseman is because whoever is our 7th defenseman is going to be playing a lot. Hence why I originally wrote 6th/7th defenseman. Roszival isn't going to make it through an entire 82 game season.

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07-17-2013, 03:30 PM
  #39
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So? He got hurt, he seems to get hurt a lot like when Brendan Smith knocked his head off because he tried a ridiculous toe drag move.

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07-17-2013, 03:30 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Lots of people have Stanton as the 7th defenseman. And guess what, the 7th defenseman is going to play a lot this season with Roszival on the roster. In fact, you just posted this roster with Stanton on the team!

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Johnny Oduya ($3.383m)
Nick Leddy ($2.700m) / Michal Rozsival ($2.200m)
Ryan Stanton ($0.578m) / Sheldon Brookbank ($1.250m)
I see you can't count either since there are 8 defenseman listed on the aforementioned roster.

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07-17-2013, 03:31 PM
  #41
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You could ask for them to be an elite penalty killer like Frolik was, or even a very good penalty killer like Bolland was.
No, you can't ask that of most 4th liners. Michael Frolik was a luxury, I'm pretty sure most posters realized that. At 2.33M, you better find a way to contribute and Frolik certainly did. I was one of his biggest supporters, but his time was over in Chicago and expecting anyone to come in next year at less than 2M and be as effective on the PK as he was next year is not going to happen.

As for Bolland, again, another guy I supported, he wasn't even used on the PK for Chicago's Cup run. The three most frequent forward pairings were Kruger/Frolik, Toews/Hossa and Saad/Handzus.

Do I think Smith can be as good a PKer as Frolik was last year, next year? No. Do I think he could help - to an extent - fill the void? Yes. But asking him to be one of the better PKers in the league next year wasn't going to happen, and expecting most 4th liners to be that is unrealistic.

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07-17-2013, 03:33 PM
  #42
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No, you can't ask that of most 4th liners. Michael Frolik was a luxury, I'm pretty sure most posters realized that. At 2.33M, you better find a way to contribute and Frolik certainly did. I was one of his biggest supporters, but his time was over in Chicago and expecting anyone to come in next year at less than 2M and be as effective on the PK as he was next year is not going to happen.

As for Bolland, again, another guy I supported, he wasn't even used on the PK for Chicago's Cup run. The three most frequent forward pairings were Kruger/Frolik, Toews/Hossa and Saad/Handzus.

Do I think Smith can be as good a PKer as Frolik was last year, next year? No. Do I think he could help - to an extent - fill the void? Yes. But asking him to be one of the better PKers in the league next year wasn't going to happen, and expecting most 4th liners to be that is unrealistic.
And this is my point. I saw someone post that next years roster may be even better than last years. I hope people really don't expect this team to repeat what they did last year.

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07-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #43
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So? He got hurt, he seems to get hurt a lot like when Brendan Smith knocked his head off because he tried a ridiculous toe drag move.
How long ago did that occur? Or did it ever occur to you that Ben Smith today is a better hockey player than he was in the first quarter of the 2011-12 NHL Season.

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07-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
The reason I included him as a 6th defenseman is because whoever is our 7th defenseman is going to be playing a lot. Hence why I originally wrote 6th/7th defenseman. Roszival isn't going to make it through an entire 82 game season.
Alright, I'll give you that then. I think of the numbers in terms of rankings on a depth chart. Your 7th Dman is still the 7th Dman, doesn't become the #6 because he's playing.

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07-17-2013, 03:38 PM
  #45
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How long ago did that occur? Or did it ever occur to you that Ben Smith today is a better hockey player than he was in the first quarter of the 2011-12 NHL Season.
I just watched him in the playoffs and he certainly looked like the same player to me. Except now he's 25 instead of 23.

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07-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
You could ask for them to be an elite penalty killer like Frolik was, or even a very good penalty killer like Bolland was.
But that's unrealistic. There's a huge difference from expecting this team to be the best team in hockey from beginning to end than there is in expecting this team to be a top 5 team.

Ben Smith is a solid to above average fourth line option. Frolik played on the fourth line of a stacked team. His skillset is certainly more than that.

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07-17-2013, 03:41 PM
  #47
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Has a team ever won the Cup starting 4 rookies?
1999-00 New Jersey Devils

Scott Gomez, 20
John Madden, 26
Brian Rafalski, 26
Colin White, 22

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07-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #48
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1999-00 New Jersey Devils

Scott Gomez, 20
John Madden, 26
Brian Rafalski, 26
Colin White, 22
Nice find, even if White only played 21 games that year.

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07-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #49
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And this is my point. I saw someone post that next years roster may be even better than last years. I hope people really don't expect this team to repeat what they did last year.
Why? Only because you say that Saad, Shaw, Kruger, Leddy can't improve from last year? That Ben Smith can't score 3 goals in 48 regular season games as was the case with Michael Frolik this past season?

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07-17-2013, 03:48 PM
  #50
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I just watched him in the playoffs and he certainly looked like the same player to me. Except now he's 25 instead of 23.
Ben Smith had not played competitive hockey in two months prior to the Stanley Cup Finals and did not even participate in warmups.

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