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What Bobrovsky Winning the Vezina Would Mean For The Flyers

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Old
07-17-2013, 11:31 AM
  #351
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I really don't see what's wrong with what Panaccio wrote. In fact, I agree with him here. After Bob got lit up in the Buffalo series, how many of you would have been comfortable with him being the starter the next season? Holmgren/Snider wanted a goalie they could rely on, so they got Bryz (which obviously didn't work out). Bob looked pretty bad as a back up and I think the Flyers did a favor to Bob in trading him; he wan't going to get a shot here once they signed Bryz.

Disclaimer: I disagree with 99% of everything Tim P. writes.

First post after being here for 3 years.
It wasn't Bob's fault that Lavi overplayed him early in the season. He burnt out by the end of it.

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07-17-2013, 11:37 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by KevD10 View Post
I really don't see what's wrong with what Panaccio wrote. In fact, I agree with him here. After Bob got lit up in the Buffalo series, how many of you would have been comfortable with him being the starter the next season? Holmgren/Snider wanted a goalie they could rely on, so they got Bryz (which obviously didn't work out). Bob looked pretty bad as a back up and I think the Flyers did a favor to Bob in trading him; he wan't going to get a shot here once they signed Bryz.

Disclaimer: I disagree with 99% of everything Tim P. writes.

First post after being here for 3 years.
and it took a Timmy P. article to get you to post.

hahah, thats worth a

ps i would have been fine with Bob coming back, and having signed a journeyman older goalie to help him along, it was clear as cyrstal that he was/is a first rate goalie..

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07-17-2013, 12:06 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by KevD10 View Post
I really don't see what's wrong with what Panaccio wrote. In fact, I agree with him here. After Bob got lit up in the Buffalo series, how many of you would have been comfortable with him being the starter the next season? Holmgren/Snider wanted a goalie they could rely on, so they got Bryz (which obviously didn't work out). Bob looked pretty bad as a back up and I think the Flyers did a favor to Bob in trading him; he wan't going to get a shot here once they signed Bryz.

Disclaimer: I disagree with 99% of everything Tim P. writes.

First post after being here for 3 years.
I would have been fine with him starting. It was known from the beginning that Bob was in an overwhelming situation. Players develop and improve over time. Just because he had one bad playoffs doesn't mean it's going to happen every single year, especially based on what we knew of his character at the time.

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07-17-2013, 12:07 PM
  #354
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Bob was a freakin rookie with no real formal tutelage yet he was able to overcome huge obstacles so shortly through sheer hard work and mental fortitude not to mention insane raw skills....the Flyers definitely mishandled him first by overplaying him as a starter (also expecting him to be great in the playoffs as a rookie) and then relegating him to a back up role the following year which is difficult in and of itself for any goalie let alone a rookie goalie..ask Bob Froese.

Obviously, the Bryz roadblock was the impetus behind the latter occurrence and having garbage goaltending with Leighton and Boosh was the consequence of the former.

Pinheadaccio's main premise and that of many, is that Bob never had a chance here and wouldn't have succeeded. My contention is that management along with the coaching staff are at fault for this b/c they doubled down on their humongous big "mistake" Bryz b/c they had to save face and not the result of any true empirical analysis.

Just like how they didn't do their homework with getting Bryz in the first place they didn't do it when they decided to double down with keeping him as a starter in his second year. They should have kept Bob another season and had him compete in camp to push Bryz instead of catering to Bryz's argument that he had to play more games and basically not have anybody push him or shadow him..hence LOLeighton being kept as a backup. This is a massive fail on management's part and that should have been pinhead's focus.

No doubt from a lot of people, including myself, that Bob was always starter material and would have succeeded here. Like one of the article's noted from a scout while Bob was still on the Flyers...Bob's perceived flaws were easily fixable.

Whenever Bob started during his back up stint it was pretty clear that he could carry the team more so than Bryz ever could if he got more reps but Lavi would play him no more than 1 game at a time despite Bob's body of work in the games and practice. He pulled the old Fregosi...I'm going to go with my closer no matter how shot his arm is (probably for "political" reasons as I noted...i.e. saving face).

I remember clearly in the GDT's when Bob would get a start.. the particular argument that Bob showed he could make the big save more than Bryz and that Lavi needed to stop going back to the dry well of Bryz and give Bob a string of games to reward him just like we did with Mason at the end of last season....ironically. But no dice...

In short, the flyers totally botched the whole Bob situation and they better hope he can't sustain his Vezina performance and that Stolarz is legit. Watching Stolarz does temper some of my anger over the Bob botch job. If Emery or Mason can be consistent as well..then that will obviously help even more. But right now we are still dealing with question marks in goal as opposed to an exclamation point!


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07-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #355
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It wasn't Bob's fault that Lavi overplayed him early in the season. He burnt out by the end of it.
Being overplayed didn't anything to do with him being lit up late.

Bob is a 6'2 goalie that plays like he is 5'10". I am glad he found success in CLB but I really seeing him being a Theodore type goalie which isn't a bad thing, however, over the long stretch and in a series I thinks teams will exploit him. He will have lights out stretches during the season because ha has sick athletic skills but when teams game plan for him I think he will just be a good goalie.

Either way, he wasn't going to have success here and Bryz looked like the answer to the goalie issues when he was signed.

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07-17-2013, 12:16 PM
  #356
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How do you figure Bob never would have had success here? He did pretty damned well for himself and just needed to find consistency through a season, something which can take young goaltenders a bit to get a handle on.

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07-17-2013, 12:18 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Being overplayed didn't anything to do with him being lit up late.

Bob is a 6'2 goalie that plays like he is 5'10". I am glad he found success in CLB but I really seeing him being a Theodore type goalie which isn't a bad thing, however, over the long stretch and in a series I thinks teams will exploit him. He will have lights out stretches during the season because ha has sick athletic skills but when teams game plan for him I think he will just be a good goalie.

Either way, he wasn't going to have success here and Bryz looked like the answer to the goalie issues when he was signed.
As long as Bob has his sick athleticism to now match his "easily fixed" technical skills that has him playing larger and less crouched, he will be above average at the least and I don't see him being exploited as you say in a long series. NOW...if he suffers injuries like Nitty and Esche (limiting his athleticism)..then yeah he could very well become average in the Theodore mold. That is my take..

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07-17-2013, 12:21 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by KevD10 View Post
I really don't see what's wrong with what Panaccio wrote. In fact, I agree with him here. After Bob got lit up in the Buffalo series, how many of you would have been comfortable with him being the starter the next season?
Every time I see comments blaming Bob for that year's playoff debacle, I feel like I have to chime in.

Bob had played well all year and what happened to the Flyers in those playoffs was a product of horrible coaching, plain and simple.

First game: Flyers lose 1-0 with Bob in net. Bob almost pitched a shutout – hardly his fault.
Second game: Bob gets three quick goals scored on him in the first period and gets pulled. Makes sense.

At this point, panic sets in (due to years of goalie troubles) and the coaches react in a knee-jerk fashion: They push Bob aside, who was their solid #1 goalie all year, and decide to go with the ridiculous Boucher/Leighton tandem. Bob wasn't even used as the backup!!!

Leighton proceeds to **** the bed and by the time Bob sees the net again, it's only to relieve Boucher in three straight losing efforts.

Finally, in danger of being eliminated, the Flyers realize their decisions on goaltending were a trainwreck and opt to make Bob the starter, but it's too late. They lose that game and the series against the Bruins is over.

The decisions on goaltending in that series were beyond bizarre. Bob was not the problem.

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07-17-2013, 12:25 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Every time I see comments blaming Bob for that year's playoff debacle, I feel like I have to chime in.

Bob had played well all year and what happened to the Flyers in those playoffs was a product of horrible coaching, plain and simple.

First game: Flyers lose 1-0 with Bob in net. Bob almost pitched a shutout – hardly his fault.
Second game: Bob gets three quick goals scored on him in the first period and gets pulled. Makes sense.

At this point, panic sets in (due to years of goalie troubles) and the coaches react in a knee-jerk fashion: They push Bob aside, who was their solid #1 goalie all year, and decide to go with the ridiculous Boucher/Leighton tandem. Bob wasn't even used as the backup!!!

Leighton proceeds to **** the bed and by the time Bob sees the net again, it's only to relieve Boucher in three straight losing efforts.

Finally, in danger of being eliminated, the Flyers realize their decisions on goaltending were a trainwreck and opt to make Bob the starter, but it's too late. They lose that game and the series against the Bruins is over.

The decisions on goaltending in that series were beyond bizarre. Bob was not the problem.
Thank you...that whole playoff argument is so horribly specious

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07-17-2013, 01:15 PM
  #360
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At the time it was said that Bob had a breakdown of sorts, hence why he wasn't even the backup later in that series. Like someone said above, I would've had no problem if they signed a cheap goalie (no, not Leighton or Boucher) to spilt time with Bob and let Bob work through his struggles, but they went with the more proven goaltender in Bryz. And like I said earlier, once they committed to Bryz, Bob wasn't going to get a shot here.

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07-17-2013, 01:20 PM
  #361
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My favourite thing about Bob, regardless of athleticism or skill, was his compete level. Guy never gave up on a play however far gone it looked. It was summed up to me by his 'Jesus' pose with back to the crossbar and arms stretched when he saved a shot and it went high in the air... like how often would it come down and go in in a goalies whole career? But he still did it on all shots he could, that extra effort probably 5 times a game to probably stop 1-2 freak goals in a whole career. I liked that a lot.

I am glad he is doing so well, and sad we could not keep him, but it was semi-understandable at the time, even though I was not especially happy with the move.

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07-17-2013, 01:30 PM
  #362
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My favourite thing about Bob, regardless of athleticism or skill, was his compete level. Guy never gave up on a play however far gone it looked. It was summed up to me by his 'Jesus' pose with back to the crossbar and arms stretched when he saved a shot and it went high in the air... like how often would it come down and go in in a goalies whole career? But he still did it on all shots he could, that extra effort probably 5 times a game to probably stop 1-2 freak goals in a whole career. I liked that a lot.

I am glad he is doing so well, and sad we could not keep him, but it was semi-understandable at the time, even though I was not especially happy with the move.
Yea, Bob was very easy to like. I wish he was still here but it's nice seeing him do well, even if it rubs salt in the wounds.

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07-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Every time I see comments blaming Bob for that year's playoff debacle, I feel like I have to chime in.

Bob had played well all year and what happened to the Flyers in those playoffs was a product of horrible coaching, plain and simple.

First game: Flyers lose 1-0 with Bob in net. Bob almost pitched a shutout – hardly his fault.
Second game: Bob gets three quick goals scored on him in the first period and gets pulled. Makes sense.

At this point, panic sets in (due to years of goalie troubles) and the coaches react in a knee-jerk fashion: They push Bob aside, who was their solid #1 goalie all year, and decide to go with the ridiculous Boucher/Leighton tandem. Bob wasn't even used as the backup!!!

Leighton proceeds to **** the bed and by the time Bob sees the net again, it's only to relieve Boucher in three straight losing efforts.

Finally, in danger of being eliminated, the Flyers realize their decisions on goaltending were a trainwreck and opt to make Bob the starter, but it's too late. They lose that game and the series against the Bruins is over.

The decisions on goaltending in that series were beyond bizarre. Bob was not the problem.

Summed up pretty well.

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07-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #364
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How do you figure Bob never would have had success here? He did pretty damned well for himself and just needed to find consistency through a season, something which can take young goaltenders a bit to get a handle on.
Not to mention that most goalies don't fully mature till around 30 or so, much later on then a forward for example.

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07-17-2013, 03:56 PM
  #365
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How do you figure Bob never would have had success here? He did pretty damned well for himself and just needed to find consistency through a season, something which can take young goaltenders a bit to get a handle on.
Once they signed Bryz to that contract the writing was on the wall.

Also, Bob was given a shot in the next season when Lavy tired of Bryz's antics. Bob was given a stretch of games including the winter classic. I honestly don't remember how he did that next season but I do remember him getting beat twice glove side by Mike Friggin Rupp wristers.

I would have loved them to sign Vokoun and worked but Bob in but I am not going to monday morning QB like everyone on here that swears they knew Bryz would be a bust.

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07-17-2013, 04:01 PM
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Once they signed Bryz to that contract the writing was on the wall.

Also, Bob was given a shot in the next season when Lavy tired of Bryz's antics. Bob was given a stretch of games including the winter classic. I honestly don't remember how he did that next season but I do remember him getting beat twice glove side by Mike Friggin Rupp wristers.

I would have loved them to sign Vokoun and worked but Bob in but I am not going to monday morning QB like everyone on here that swears they knew Bryz would be a bust.
Bob was noticeably better than Bryz (I'm pretty sure he maintained a .920 to Bryz's .900) until January, when he hit the wall again.

This year he managed to play a combined full season in two without burning himself out. It's conceivable that he wasn't sure how to balance the workload and pushing himself in his first two years without burning himself out. This year it seems he learned that skill. Having a consistency to your workload helps, too.

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07-17-2013, 04:15 PM
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Bob was noticeably better than Bryz (I'm pretty sure he maintained a .920 to Bryz's .900) until January, when he hit the wall again.

This year he managed to play a combined full season in two without burning himself out. It's conceivable that he wasn't sure how to balance the workload and pushing himself in his first two years without burning himself out. This year it seems he learned that skill. Having a consistency to your workload helps, too.
I don't want to come off as a Bob Basher. I am just not convinced after this 48 game season that he is going to play at this level or close to it every season.

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07-17-2013, 04:21 PM
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I don't want to come off as a Bob Basher. I am just not convinced after this 48 game season that he is going to play at this level or close to it every season.
Not convinced either. He showed that he can be very very good, and great at times, but let's see if he can keep that up in an 82 game season, especially when more than likely he's going to have to start at least 65+ of them.

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07-17-2013, 04:29 PM
  #369
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I don't want to come off as a Bob Basher. I am just not convinced after this 48 game season that he is going to play at this level or close to it every season.
Don't forget his time in the KHL, too. He played from October to April. He put up .932 in the KHL and NHL over the course of 54 games. For a young 3rd year guy that's pretty damned good.

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07-17-2013, 04:33 PM
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Don't forget his time in the KHL, too. He played from October to April. He put up .932 in the KHL and NHL over the course of 54 games. For a young 3rd year guy that's pretty damned good.
67 games in 2 seasons in the KHL (before coming over). 54 games 1st NHL season. 29 games in the 2nd NHL season. 62 games this season (24 in KHL and 38 in the NHL).

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07-17-2013, 04:36 PM
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67 games in 2 seasons in the KHL (before coming over). 54 games 1st NHL season. 29 games in the 2nd NHL season. 62 games this season (24 in KHL and 38 in the NHL).
Is there a pattern you're trying to show here?

is it that he does worse with less games played? That seems to be the case thus far.

Edit: If the pattern is "Beef is bad at mental math" that has definitely been established

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07-17-2013, 04:37 PM
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I really thought the general consensus when we traded Bob was that we did he a solid, and we were all happy he would get to start somewhere else? I mean a few guys weren't happy with it, but nothing like this thread would seem to indicate.
As for Bob winning the Vezina, and what it means to the Flyers? Nothing. Good for Bob, what is it supposed to mean for the flyers? I don't get it?

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07-17-2013, 04:41 PM
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Is there a pattern you're trying to show here?

is it that he does worse with less games played? That seems to be the case thus far.
What I was getting at, is that this is probably going to be the first season that will really show how long he will last, especially since he would be in one league and easily be 65+ games in one season. We'll see how he will be down the stretch.

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07-17-2013, 04:42 PM
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What I was getting at, is that this is probably going to be the first season that will really show how long he will last, especially since he would be in one league and easily be 65+ games in one season. We'll see how he will be down the stretch.
He's spent two years acclimating to an NHL grind. He played 64 games this year and managed to be a surprisingly consistent .932 in two different leagues. Do you really think he's going to plummet down to Bryzgalov levels the second he hits 65 games?

I doubt he repeats .930 again, but there's little reason to believe he can't be a solid goalie for a year at this point.

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07-17-2013, 04:44 PM
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He's spent two years acclimating to an NHL grind. He played 64 games this year and managed to be a surprisingly consistent .932 in two different leagues. Do you really think he's going to plummet down to Bryzgalov levels the second he hits 65 games?

I doubt he repeats .930 again, but there's little reason to believe he can't be a solid goalie for a year at this point.
Yes. A solid goalie. It's also possible he might be the next Raycroft, who knows. But if he can keep his play up, he will do well. But he's on now a division rival, so you show no mercy and score as many as you can.

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