HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Zach Bogosian

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-17-2013, 02:55 PM
  #76
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 20,385
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morry83 View Post
Better question, since my first didn't seem to work.

Jets fans, if arbitration went to hell and it was 100% certain Bogosian was going to be traded, what would you REALISTICALLY want in return.
This premise is DOA, because any Jets' fans desires that get expressed will thereafter be confronted by folks saying "but in this scenario, you HAVE to trade him, so therefore his value CAN'T be that high". So what point is there for Jets fans to participate?

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:15 PM
  #77
Morry83
Registered User
 
Morry83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Scenario A

"What wold (insert team name) fans realistically want for (insert player)?"

"OMG LOL WHAT A RIDICULOUS QUESTION THAT WOULD N3V3R HAPPEN HE'S NOT MOVINZ!"


Scenario B

"What would (insert team name) fans realistically want for (insert player)?"

"Well, we certainly aren't interested in moving him, but if we were, we'd want (insert pieces) back."


Why can't we have more scenario B's. It's definitely not just Jets fans and Bogosian, it's all fans and every half decent player that plays hockey. I get it, it's extremely unlikey your superstar is going to get moved, but on a board such as this, I don't see why it's blasphemy to just consider the thought. /rant.

I guess asking what Bogosian's value is, is extremely wrong. I apologize. Won't happen again. :

Morry83 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:18 PM
  #78
Morlesio14*
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The 416
Country: North Korea
Posts: 776
vCash: 500
he'd be great with Toronto, but nothing winnipeg would want, toronto would be willing to give up

Morlesio14* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #79
Puckclektr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: GTA
Posts: 2,933
vCash: 500
How many points do you guys think Bogo will hit this year? I am hoping somehwere around 45. He is in my keeper league as a bench guy behind KArlsson, Petroangelo Schultz and Ekman LArson. I might finally drop him this year.

Puckclektr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:25 PM
  #80
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morry83 View Post
Scenario A

"What wold (insert team name) fans realistically want for (insert player)?"

"OMG LOL WHAT A RIDICULOUS QUESTION THAT WOULD N3V3R HAPPEN HE'S NOT MOVINZ!"


Scenario B

"What would (insert team name) fans realistically want for (insert player)?"

"Well, we certainly aren't interested in moving him, but if we were, we'd want (insert pieces) back."


Why can't we have more scenario B's. It's definitely not just Jets fans and Bogosian, it's all fans and every half decent player that plays hockey. I get it, it's extremely unlikey your superstar is going to get moved, but on a board such as this, I don't see why it's blasphemy to just consider the thought. /rant.

I guess asking what Bogosian's value is, is extremely wrong. I apologize. Won't happen again. :
The Philly fan already answered this a page or two ago quite well. A young fringe top line winger/center with room to grow (Voracek for example, we'd probably have had to add something to Seguin) or if it was futures...a young, established, left handed top four defenseman that's at his ceiling with a pick depending on the player (Edler + 2nd maybe? Or Vlasic + 1st)

Something like that anyway.

Flair Hay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:25 PM
  #81
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,325
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
How many points do you guys think Bogo will hit this year? I am hoping somehwere around 45. He is in my keeper league as a bench guy behind KArlsson, Petroangelo Schultz and Ekman LArson. I might finally drop him this year.
He doesn't get as much prime PP time being behind Buff so he won't be putting up a tonne of points.

The offense is there if you look at his ES points, but until he gets prime PP time, he won't be a big time point producing D man.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:25 PM
  #82
Drcrush
Registered User
 
Drcrush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 252
vCash: 500
I give you moulson+de haan+pick from isles

Drcrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:28 PM
  #83
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
How many points do you guys think Bogo will hit this year? I am hoping somehwere around 45. He is in my keeper league as a bench guy behind KArlsson, Petroangelo Schultz and Ekman LArson. I might finally drop him this year.
Probably not that high without PP time. Buff and Enstrom get all the first unit time. He had 30 points in 11-12 and last year he was headed for around the same pace. If Buff was to get injured maybe he'd be worth starting, but even then there's a possibility of Trouba playing in his place as well. I'd trade him and hope someone overpays for his name. His value is more in keeping the other team off the score sheet with some offense sprinkled in 5v5 here and there.

Flair Hay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:31 PM
  #84
Aela*
#MeatisMurder
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,437
vCash: 50
Send a message via Skype™ to Aela*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillyfan28 View Post
Yandle wouldnt command the package you are implicitly asking for.
No, I wouldn't expect so. But Bogosian is younger, much better defensively, and has about the same ceiling offensivewise. Similar to OEL, although I really try hard not to compare Bogo to people like OEL, Karlsson etc because other fans will jump down your throat for that.

Aela* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 03:54 PM
  #85
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morry83 View Post
Scenario A

"What wold (insert team name) fans realistically want for (insert player)?"

"OMG LOL WHAT A RIDICULOUS QUESTION THAT WOULD N3V3R HAPPEN HE'S NOT MOVINZ!"


Scenario B

"What would (insert team name) fans realistically want for (insert player)?"

"Well, we certainly aren't interested in moving him, but if we were, we'd want (insert pieces) back."


Why can't we have more scenario B's. It's definitely not just Jets fans and Bogosian, it's all fans and every half decent player that plays hockey. I get it, it's extremely unlikey your superstar is going to get moved, but on a board such as this, I don't see why it's blasphemy to just consider the thought. /rant.

I guess asking what Bogosian's value is, is extremely wrong. I apologize. Won't happen again. :
I agree that it would be nice to see more scenario B.

The problem is when your dealing with players like that

A) they dont' want to trade, them so the value goes up (because "we're not shopping him" etc etc)

so

B) the value isn't really "realistic" because your essentially saying "i'm forcing you to give up this player, what would make it stomachable", so they will want something REALLY good.


then

C) "OMG ur kidding?! he's not worth that, u shld be hppy i give you ______ and a 2nd!" inevitably follows up though sometimes we do manage to get a bit of reasonable back and forth.


the main crux is When youre asking for a player that isn't "realistically" up for trade, you shouldn't expect a "realistic" return to be accepted. One parties allowed to play in fantasy (the team asking for an unrealistic piece ie: bogosian) but the other one isn't (the team being berated for asking for an unrealistic price) so of course its going to derail into a pissing match.

that's just how it goes. people fail to realize that when people say we're not trading him it means he's "realistically" not being traded and therefor asking for a "realistic' price is unfair and will always result in arguments.

Edit: to follow up IF chevy decided that we were fine on right D with buff and trouba I would expect a return of a similar player. A player who has decent potential to be a #1 at his position on a team and is already likely a #2. So if we were talking a "hockey" trade and we're going to assume that everyother team in the league is shopping any player i pick...I think Derek Stepan would be about the level of player i would expect. A young, not fully established #1 C.


Last edited by Grind: 07-17-2013 at 04:23 PM.
Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 04:07 PM
  #86
youvegotit
Registered User
 
youvegotit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,000
vCash: 500
Serious question, is Bogo even a top 5 defenseman from his draft class?

I realize his importance to the jets and thus his increased value to them but no competent gm would even consider what most jet fans are asking. This is just another scenario of where the said players value to the team is way more then his value elsewhere.

youvegotit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 04:18 PM
  #87
ISLESnPANTHERS
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 303
vCash: 500
Jets fans, out of curiosity who has more value: Kane of Bogo?

ISLESnPANTHERS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 04:25 PM
  #88
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISLESnPANTHERS View Post
Jets fans, out of curiosity who has more value: Kane of Bogo?
probably bogo.

close though, the two are probably equal in most fans minds, they are our main pieces, our main future.

if we were to go into rebuild those are the two players we'd build around

kane is more established, but the "ultimate upside" jets fans see with bogo being higher (jets fans see both having the ultimate upside of being top 5-10 in the league at their position, and Defencemen are worth more then wingers)

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 04:38 PM
  #89
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 155
Doughty, Pietro and Karlsson have distances themselves from Bogo no doubt. But that speaks as much to that class of defensemen as much as anything. I'd certainly (based on how he has played in Winnipeg) take him just over guys like Schenn, Carlson and Myers. It's definitely close though all have had some really good seasons under their belt.

Flair Hay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 05:06 PM
  #90
allan5oh
#Dive4Five #31Buyout
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,409
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Doughty, Pietro and Karlsson have distances themselves from Bogo no doubt. But that speaks as much to that class of defensemen as much as anything. I'd certainly (based on how he has played in Winnipeg) take him just over guys like Schenn, Carlson and Myers. It's definitely close though all have had some really good seasons under their belt.
Also ahead of MDZ, Gardiner, and Schultz. Pretty tough to crack the top three, but it seems like everyone outside of those three have had mixed careers unless I missed someone.

allan5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 06:26 PM
  #91
Kris Chreider
Pass Off The Pads
 
Kris Chreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC/Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 7,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
Wow that's pretty terrible.

Just looked at cap geek. He's only signed for 2 more years and then is a UFA. Wouldn't even do Little straight up for Staal.


You wouldn't trade us your 40-50 point center for a young #1 defenseman, who while signed for only 2 years those 2 years are at a sweetheart price. Milbury, is that you?

Kris Chreider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 07:07 PM
  #92
tbcwpg
Registered User
 
tbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post


You wouldn't trade us your 40-50 point center for a young #1 defenseman, who while signed for only 2 years those 2 years are at a sweetheart price. Milbury, is that you?
Considering he's the Jets' number one centre, by the time the centre depth caught up to get even close to the playoffs, Staal would be long gone. Staal is more valuable than Little but the scenario makes it a poor trade for the Jets.

tbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 07:14 PM
  #93
Thesaurus
Lyrical Wordsmith
 
Thesaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Cosmos
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post


You wouldn't trade us your 40-50 point center for a young #1 defenseman, who while signed for only 2 years those 2 years are at a sweetheart price. Milbury, is that you?
Why would we trade our #1 center for a 2 year rental on a guy with tons of injury concerns? Makes zero sense.

Thesaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 08:01 PM
  #94
huntison
Registered User
 
huntison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,606
vCash: 500
Bieksa + Shinkaruk + 1st

huntison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 09:45 PM
  #95
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
No, I wouldn't expect so. But Bogosian is younger, much better defensively, and has about the same ceiling offensivewise. Similar to OEL, although I really try hard not to compare Bogo to people like OEL, Karlsson etc because other fans will jump down your throat for that.

When asked about things like this, I ask people who they would rather have right now, Mike Green or Ryan Suter???? 4 years ago everyone was falling all over themselves about Green but who turned out to be the much better DEFENSEMAN??? (as opposed to a glorified 3rd winger on the ice)


I like Karlsson but his actual defensive play is questionable at best right now. He COULD get better but honestly, he's only going to achieve that and become a better all-around dman if he sacrafices focusing on offense so much (much like Mike Green did and Green is a MUCH better dman now than he was 4 years ago).

Me, I'd take Bogo over Karlsson right now AIAEC. I think Zach will become a dman in the mold of Ryan Suter and I'd take that as my #1 dman any day of the week. Personally, I think the 3 best dman in the league are Weber, Suter and Keith and over the last 3 seasons IMO they are the only 3 that should have been considered for the Noris. Defensemen are suppose to play defense too and when you look at everything the 3 guys I listed bring to the game (good defense, physical play, GREAT defensive play, LEADERSHIP on the ice, ...) they are hands down the first 3 I'd pick if I was building my defense from scratch.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 09:51 PM
  #96
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetCluttered22 View Post
Serious question, is Bogo even a top 5 defenseman from his draft class?

I realize his importance to the jets and thus his increased value to them but no competent gm would even consider what most jet fans are asking. This is just another scenario of where the said players value to the team is way more then his value elsewhere.
Easy answer, MOST DEFINITELY!!!! He's not "flashy" so people are going to under-value him. In a year or 2 he'll be a top 15-20 dman in the league and I personally think he'll be top 10. He does EVERYTHING very well, just not exceptionally. His offense is better than what you typically see because in the Jets "system" they ask/expect him to carry the DEFENSIVE play and to back out of the zone playing it safe rather than pinching in and uping his personal stats.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 09:54 PM
  #97
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Doughty, Pietro and Karlsson have distances themselves from Bogo no doubt. But that speaks as much to that class of defensemen as much as anything. I'd certainly (based on how he has played in Winnipeg) take him just over guys like Schenn, Carlson and Myers. It's definitely close though all have had some really good seasons under their belt.
I don't think the difference between Doughty/Pietro and Bogo is all that much and until Karlsson proves he can actually play in the defensive zone I'd take Bogo over him. Regarding Schenn/Carlson/Myers, I don't think it's even close personally.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:20 PM
  #98
allan5oh
#Dive4Five #31Buyout
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,409
vCash: 50
As far as Bogosian wanting out, if he did he wouldn't have filed for arbitration which makes him ineligible to receive offer sheets. The team will also elect a 1 year deal, leaving him 1 year away from UFA at the end of the arbitration contract. That makes no sense whatsoever.

allan5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:21 PM
  #99
allan5oh
#Dive4Five #31Buyout
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,409
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I don't think the difference between Doughty/Pietro and Bogo is all that much and until Karlsson proves he can actually play in the defensive zone I'd take Bogo over him. Regarding Schenn/Carlson/Myers, I don't think it's even close personally.
It really comes down to who is in front of him on the depth chart, and his d-partner for the past couple years. If we trade Buff things will change.

allan5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:44 PM
  #100
ps241
The Danish Dash!
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,028
vCash: 50
In the last full season 2011-12 Bogo had the same PPG average as Subban, Doughty, and Seabrook (.46 PPG average) and he did that without playing on the number 1 PP unit. That same season Zach was 12th in defensive scoring PP/60 5v5 and he puts up those numbers playing really tough minutes on our shut down pair. Last off season they finally found out what was wrong with his Chronic wrist injury that dated back to his junior days and he got surgery in august that put him on the shelf until late January. He started the 2012-13 season slowly (scoring wise) but closed out the year strong and put up .42 PPG.

As Philly fans know with Girioux, wrist injuries can take a while to "fully" recover from and my hopes are this year Zach puts up slightly better numbers with that issue corrected.

He is a fan favorite for being a great guy but most of it has been because of his play on the ice. he has yet to enter his prime so I believe Zach is who we are building our blue line around in the future.

Fortunately the contracts with Shattenkirk, Hamonic, and especially McDonough have set the bar at a modest height so we should get a deal done here before arbitration.

ps241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.