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Teams that play a lot of rookies tend to lose a lot of games

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07-17-2013, 04:28 PM
  #76
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by HockeySensible View Post
Ugh, please don't tell me you're comparing Stalberg and Ladd. they could not be more different. Stalberg was and has become so overrated. He wouldn't even be in the NHL if he didn't have the wheels he does, and now we're comparing him to a guy who - even in Chicago - was a great all-round player?

I would hope that the only people that thought there'd be little drop-off were bandwagoners that couldn't name more than 4 Hawks before they won the Cup. The Hawks weren't going to replace Buff, Ladd and Versteeg with Bickell, Skille and Stalberg..

IMO there's a pretty good chance Pirri/LeBlanc will be better than Bolland/Handzus were as the 2nd line centre, and IMO, there's a very strong chance Jeremy Morin's as (or more) impactful than Stalberg was. Personally, I don't care about the veteran tag. Stalberg doesn't have as many tools as Morin, therefore, I think Morin will be just as impactful - at least - despite being a rookie.
I liked Ladd, but in 2010 he played less minutes per game than Kruger and Frolik did this past playoff run but people act like he was some force of nature all season and in the playoffs. He's become the most overrated Blackhawk of all time. He is, and was, a great player, but he didn't do a whole lot other than bust open Ryan Kesler's eye and score that OT winner against Vancouver. Before this last playoff run I was trying to tell people that Brian Bickell is every bit as impactful as Ladd but I was wrong, he was even better.

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07-17-2013, 04:29 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Those guys were replaced but it took 2 seasons of playing a lot of kids and losing a lot of games. This past year we played 1 rookie.
Those teams had 97 and 101 points. I'm not sure that's really qualified as "losing a lot of games". Yes, one snuck in the backdoor for the 8th seed but they were still three points shy of a 100-point season.

And personally, I don't find Ladd to be overrated, generally speaking. Some people may overrate him, but I know I don't. If people think losing him wasn't a big deal then I don't know what to say. That was a big loss. Not saying it was bigger than any other, but for my money it was definitely in the debate.

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07-17-2013, 04:31 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
brandonpirri

chi

c

37

1

0.02
Copy and paste the entire link since the filters were cropped or click more filters, enter 10- to GP, enter 0.75- to TOI/60.

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07-17-2013, 04:33 PM
  #79
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These kids have earned their shot. Smith, Morin, Pirri, Hayes, and LeBlanc will be given fair opporrunities. The first four have paid their dues. I think they'll be fine. Smith definitely has experience in big situations. Morin has been gritty and around the net. Pirri, LeBlanc, Hayes, and even Morin have limited sample sizes, but each have some good things going for them. Stan will upgrade the team at the TD if he's dissapointed with the guys who earn spots. I guarantee he's realistic with his expectations.

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07-17-2013, 04:33 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
Those teams had 97 and 101 points. I'm not sure that's really qualified as "losing a lot of games". Yes, one snuck in the backdoor for the 8th seed but they were still three points shy of a 100-point season.

And personally, I don't find Ladd to be overrated, generally speaking. Some people may overrate him, but I know I don't. If people think losing him wasn't a big deal then I don't know what to say. That was a big loss. Not saying it was bigger than any other, but for my money it was definitely in the debate.
100 points isn't what it used to be, I'd say an 8th and a 6th seed constitute losing a lot of games. People wanted Q fired after Phoenix. Wanted to trade Kane and blow up the core. Fire Q, fire Bowman, trade Kane, get a new goalie....these were the threads after the 2012 playoffs.

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07-17-2013, 04:35 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Couldn't agree more. Ladd was everything this team needed and then some. He's what Bickell has the ability to be. I said it the moment he was traded. Guys like Ladd aren't easily replaced and Winnipeg is lucky to have him.
i don't see how you can say that - bickell doesn't have anywhere close to ladd's skill.

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07-17-2013, 04:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I liked Ladd, but in 2010 he played less minutes per game than Kruger and Frolik did this past playoff run but people act like he was some force of nature all season and in the playoffs. He's become the most overrated Blackhawk of all time. He is, and was, a great player, but he didn't do a whole lot other than bust open Ryan Kesler's eye and score that OT winner against Vancouver. Before this last playoff run I was trying to tell people that Brian Bickell is every bit as impactful as Ladd but I was wrong, he was even better.
Statistically maybe, but as far as hockey talents go it isn't even close. Ladd is far and away the better competitor and it's a position I've always maintained.

If Bickell showed anywhere near the heart Ladd showed during his tenure as a Blackhawk we would be celebrating our third cup in four years.

Andrew is a difference maker night in night out. Bickell isn't.

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07-17-2013, 04:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I liked Ladd, but in 2010 he played less minutes per game than Kruger and Frolik did this past playoff run but people act like he was some force of nature all season and in the playoffs. He's become the most overrated Blackhawk of all time. He is, and was, a great player, but he didn't do a whole lot other than bust open Ryan Kesler's eye and score that OT winner against Vancouver. Before this last playoff run I was trying to tell people that Brian Bickell is every bit as impactful as Ladd but I was wrong, he was even better.
There's really nothing Stalberg does as well or better than Ladd outside of skating. They're not comparable hockey players.

As far as production, Andrew Ladd managed to find ways to contribute even when he wasn't scoring. He won battles, he caused havoc in front of the net, he finished his checks, he helped create scoring chances and he played responsible defense. When Stalberg wasn't scoring, he'd still be fast, but he would usually be fighting the puck and suffering from tunnel vision. The most dangerous chances he created in the playoffs resulted off him spinning away from the Dman down low a couple times, and then attempting to get to the slot (as opposed to driving the net) and firing a shot at the goaltender or wide. That's really all he had all playoffs. He wasn't very physical, he wasn't good defensively and obviously he didn't score. He'll be far easier to replace than Ladd.

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07-17-2013, 04:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
100 points isn't what it used to be, I'd say an 8th and a 6th seed constitute losing a lot of games. People wanted Q fired after Phoenix. Wanted to trade Kane and blow up the core. Fire Q, fire Bowman, trade Kane, get a new goalie....these were the threads after the 2012 playoffs.
While true, none of this constitutes any kind of argument as to the quality of the roster. Sure, everyone has an opinion, but that doesn't mean they have good ones.

And I'm not saying I loved those rosters entirely by any stretch of the imagination, but I definitely have confidence in the quality and maturity of the kids who are among those that will be competing for roster spots, and more so have confidence in the veteran core of players around them. Just my opinion.

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07-17-2013, 04:39 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
i don't see how you can say that - bickell doesn't have anywhere close to ladd's skill.
Bickell is bigger than Ladd with a better shot. Ladd is a guy that makes the most of his ability.

Bickell absolutely has the potential to be better than Ladd, and this is coming from a huge Ladd fan that doesn't really like Bickell.

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07-17-2013, 04:39 PM
  #86
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They sure are. Pirri was listed at 22 on the list you generated to discredit Frolik.
Unfortunately one needs to copy the entire link to another window, since the aforementioned posted link was cropped due to some software limitation.

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07-17-2013, 04:40 PM
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i don't see how you can say that - bickell doesn't have anywhere close to ladd's skill.
You really don't think so? Bickell has a crap ton of skill. His skill level has never been in question, at least not to me. It's his willingness to compete and his effort level, more so earlier in his career. If you gave Ladd Bickell's size and skill set he'd be a monster.

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07-17-2013, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Statistically maybe, but as far as hockey talents go it isn't even close. Ladd is far and away the better competitor and it's a position I've always maintained.

If Bickell showed anywhere near the heart Ladd showed during his tenure as a Blackhawk we would be celebrating our third cup in four years.

Andrew is a difference maker night in night out. Bickell isn't.
While I agree Ladd is a better player than Bickell, which year would we have won the Cup with Ladd instead of Bickell?

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07-17-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Bickell is bigger than Ladd with a better shot. Ladd is a guy that makes the most of his ability.

Bickell absolutely has the potential to be better than Ladd, and this is coming from a huge Ladd fan that doesn't really like Bickell.
no ladd is a more offensively skilled player - bickell will not get to ladd's level

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07-17-2013, 04:42 PM
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You really don't think so? Bickell has a crap ton of skill. His skill level has never been in question, at least not to me. It's his willingness to compete and his effort level, more so earlier in his career. If you gave Ladd Bickell's size and skill set he'd be a monster.
no, i don't. tbh, i don't love either player...but i don't think bickell is anywhere near as good as ladd

i don't agree bickell is more skilled than ladd.

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07-17-2013, 04:43 PM
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no ladd is a more offensively skilled player - bickell will not get to ladd's level
Wholeheartedly disagree, personally.

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07-17-2013, 04:45 PM
  #92
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I would actually agree that Bickell is more talented than Ladd. He's got a heavier shot with a good release and he's an underrated playmaker.. but what separates the two is their compete level and intensity. Hopefully that changes this year for Bickell, now that he's had a taste at what it feels like to be an impact NHLer.

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07-17-2013, 04:45 PM
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We'll see what Bickell does with top 6 minutes. Bickell was a .48 PPG player last year on the 3rd line, Ladd was a .46 PPG player on the Hawks 3rd line before he went to Atlanta and broke out with a 29 goal 59 point season on their top line.

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07-17-2013, 04:45 PM
  #94
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Those teams had 97 and 101 points. I'm not sure that's really qualified as "losing a lot of games". Yes, one snuck in the backdoor for the 8th seed but they were still three points shy of a 100-point season.
LOL!

The Chicago Blackhawks replaced both goaltenders from the previous season for the 2010-11 NHL Season. What do you expect ...... miracles?

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07-17-2013, 04:46 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
While I agree Ladd is a better player than Bickell, which year would we have won the Cup with Ladd instead of Bickell?
Strictly my opinion, but plug Ladd into our top six over Brunette or any warm body we used in 2012 and we certainly are a contender instead of a bubble team.

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07-17-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
no ladd is a more offensively skilled player - bickell will not get to ladd's level
Outside of compete level, there is nothing Ladd does better than Bickell. Nothing.

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07-17-2013, 04:52 PM
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Outside of compete level, there is nothing Ladd does better than Bickell. Nothing.
Lol!

we'll see next year. no doubt bickell will be given his top 6 shot and we will see how his performance compares with how ladd does in winnipeg, a far more mediocre team.

i predict that within half a season bickell's role will be as an overpaid bottom 6 player.

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07-17-2013, 04:54 PM
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Lol!

we'll see next year. no doubt bickell will be given his top 6 shot and we will see how his performance compares with how ladd does in winnipeg, a far more mediocre team.

i predict that within half a season bickell's role will be as an overpaid bottom 6 player.
What does Ladd do better than Bickell though? If you really think about it.

After giving it a bit more thought, I would say Ladd has better hockey sense, but Bickell has a better shot, is a good playmaker, is physical, is bigger, is just as good a skater (if not better) and is a better puck-handler.

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07-17-2013, 05:04 PM
  #99
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Strictly my opinion, but plug Ladd into our top six over Brunette or any warm body we used in 2012 and we certainly are a contender instead of a bubble team.
That's because the Chicago Blackhawks signed the wrong left winger in unrestricted free agency. Replace Brunette with Prospal and the Chicago Blackhawks would have attained better results. Brunette was Sopel reincarnated on the ice.

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07-17-2013, 05:07 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Lol!

we'll see next year. no doubt bickell will be given his top 6 shot and we will see how his performance compares with how ladd does in winnipeg, a far more mediocre team.

i predict that within half a season bickell's role will be as an overpaid bottom 6 player.
What does Ladd do better than Bickell?

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