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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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Old
07-17-2013, 05:34 PM
  #876
AllByDesign
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Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
This won't close until after the referendum period lapses[MOD]
This is what Gosbee has been stating like a parrot every time he is questioned on the closing date.

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07-17-2013, 05:54 PM
  #877
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This is what Gosbee has been stating like a parrot every time he is questioned on the closing date.
Probably because that's the case. Does anyone involved in this really want to have their money tied up in the courts or to a potential public vote? No. So they can't close until the threat of referendum is over. End of story. I'm going to take the Calgary magnates word over the collective panic noise emanating from the now deflating relocation windbag. It takes a whole lot less effort, guesswork, and notably lacks massive leaps in logic.

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07-17-2013, 06:04 PM
  #878
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I am curious Mesa. As a part time Scottsdale resident - Why such a bold statement?
Simple! It is my belief that government, local, State or federal is not empowered to make the kinds of decisions the COG have made on behalf of their citizenry. Government was not created to be an arbitrator or bidder of the taxpayers dollars. In this particular instance, like the present Federal government, they are overstepping their constitutional rights with $$ that is the peoples. Sure, you could make the argument that the people voted these incompetents into office, however, a look at the % of Glendale citizens who actually voted, it points to low representation and low information voters. I do not believe , if given the facts, that many people would support the ongoing boneheaded decisions that have been made by this group.

I believe in limited government, and this is the antithesis of such. Glendale has mismanaged its business in such a way as to be likely irreversible, the consequences are dire. How, does a well informed citizenship vote to squash Police and Fire budgets in favor of supporting out of state entrepreneurs? They have purchased homes in my city, not Glendale, and from the looks of things have no intention of staying beyond five years. Count me as one of the skeptical, I do not believe the city made the right choice when voting to approve the AMF and its other features designed to rob the city of its assets.

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07-17-2013, 06:34 PM
  #879
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Same sort of thing as last go-round it appears then, and its like what, 100 degrees in the shade with 30% humidity? Thats just crazy, an old guy like that spending his days out of doors no matter how strongly he might feel about it. Wont matter if your dead.
Well the 30% humidity makes it tolerable, sort of like the cold in the prairies, it's a dry cold. Not like being in Singapore with 90 + humidity for daily highs. Now that is soaking wet drenched in sweat just sitting in the shade.

Anyway not a chance Jones gets enough signatures, I guess he likes the 30 days of Fame or would that be infamy?

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07-17-2013, 06:46 PM
  #880
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Simple! It is my belief that government, local, State or federal is not empowered to make the kinds of decisions the COG have made on behalf of their citizenry. Government was not created to be an arbitrator or bidder of the taxpayers dollars. In this particular instance, like the present Federal government, they are overstepping their constitutional rights with $$ that is the peoples. Sure, you could make the argument that the people voted these incompetents into office, however, a look at the % of Glendale citizens who actually voted, it points to low representation and low information voters. I do not believe , if given the facts, that many people would support the ongoing boneheaded decisions that have been made by this group.

I believe in limited government, and this is the antithesis of such. Glendale has mismanaged its business in such a way as to be likely irreversible, the consequences are dire. How, does a well informed citizenship vote to squash Police and Fire budgets in favor of supporting out of state entrepreneurs? They have purchased homes in my city, not Glendale, and from the looks of things have no intention of staying beyond five years. Count me as one of the skeptical, I do not believe the city made the right choice when voting to approve the AMF and its other features designed to rob the city of its assets.

Therefore you would be in favor of the demise of any professional sports franchise that has utilized gov't. assistance in any way to fund it's venue..... wouldn't be much in the way of sports entertainment in this day and age then.

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07-17-2013, 06:56 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Why not use this time to make sure the details are rock solid?
Considering it's Ice Edge, I suspect they best they're hoping for is soft and gooey like play dough...

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Originally Posted by kihekah19 View Post
Therefore you would be in favor of the demise of any professional sports franchise that has utilized gov't. assistance in any way to fund it's venue..... wouldn't be much in the way of sports entertainment in this day and age then.
You know, there was a variety of sports entertainment before there was professional sports entertainment...

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07-17-2013, 06:58 PM
  #882
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Therefore you would be in favor of the demise of any professional sports franchise that has utilized gov't. assistance in any way to fund it's venue..... wouldn't be much in the way of sports entertainment in this day and age then.
If the average NHL player got $1 million per year instead of $2 million, then owners would have a half-billion dollars less salary expense over 20 years. That should easily pay for a new arena, which should last 25 to 30 years.

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07-17-2013, 06:59 PM
  #883
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Well the 30% humidity makes it tolerable, sort of like the cold in the prairies, it's a dry cold. Not like being in Singapore with 90 + humidity for daily highs. Now that is soaking wet drenched in sweat just sitting in the shade.

Anyway not a chance Jones gets enough signatures, I guess he likes the 30 days of Fame or would that be infamy?
Uh, it actually makes it worse. Think sweat in every crack of your body. Now multiply that by 100 if you are older like KJ. He plows through water and often has a cooler full next to him.

16 days or so. Where's the Rev these days? Still going on about nothing? Has everyone realized they can't hang their hopes on a scoundrel like him yet?

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07-17-2013, 07:04 PM
  #884
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Uh, it actually makes it worse. Think sweat in every crack of your body. Now multiply that by 100 if you are older like KJ. He plows through water and often has a cooler full next to him.

16 days or so. Where's the Rev these days? Still going on about nothing? Has everyone realized they can't hang their hopes on a scoundrel like him yet?
Well no you feel hotter the more humid it is that's a fact. The dryness makes it dangerous though because you can tolerate the heat better. 100 is a hundred but more humidity makes it feel worse.

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07-17-2013, 07:07 PM
  #885
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Considering it's Ice Edge, I suspect they best they're hoping for is soft and gooey like play dough...



You know, there was a variety of sports entertainment before there was professional sports entertainment...

Indeed, I was under the impression that we were all NHL fans here though.

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07-17-2013, 07:08 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
If the average NHL player got $1 million per year instead of $2 million, then owners would have a half-billion dollars less salary expense over 20 years. That should easily pay for a new arena, which should last 25 to 30 years.

Ah yes..... the way it should be vs. the way it is.

Your point?

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07-17-2013, 07:17 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by kihekah19 View Post
Therefore you would be in favor of the demise of any professional sports franchise that has utilized gov't. assistance in any way to fund it's venue..... wouldn't be much in the way of sports entertainment in this day and age then.
Govts' are out of control kihekah. Better you should move to Idaho & dig-in. Join a group, make plans to take over a natural forest preserve for when civilization as we now know it collapses. Preferably one attached to a wildlife conservation area, your own private grocery store for when the **** hits the fan. Start stocking up. Canned cheddar, Ramen Noodles, Rice & Beans. When you go to McDonalds? Order small fries and grab as many of those handy little ketchup packets as you can. Invest in solar panels & go completely off-grid. Build a koi pond and grow catfish instead, real tasty smoked...

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07-17-2013, 07:17 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Uh, it actually makes it worse. Think sweat in every crack of your body. Now multiply that by 100 if you are older like KJ. He plows through water and often has a cooler full next to him.

16 days or so. Where's the Rev these days? Still going on about nothing? Has everyone realized they can't hang their hopes on a scoundrel like him yet?
The reverend had his 15 minutes of fame and announced via twitter (after patting himself on the back for a job well done) he was stepping back the moment the Goldwater Institute's press release came out.

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07-17-2013, 07:26 PM
  #889
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Govts' are out of control kihekah. Better you should move to Idaho & dig-in. Join a group, make plans to take over a natural forest preserve for when civilization as we now know it collapses. Preferably one attached to a wildlife conservation area, your own private grocery store for when the **** hits the fan. Start stocking up. Canned cheddar, Ramen Noodles, Rice & Beans. When you go to McDonalds? Order small fries and grab as many of those handy little ketchup packets as you can. Invest in solar panels & go completely off-grid. Build a koi pond and grow catfish instead, real tasty smoked...
The visions of Killion appearing on Discovery's "Naked and Afraid" just sent chills down my spine. (had to be the canned cheddar)

Think you're correct about governments losing their sense of restraint tho.

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07-17-2013, 07:30 PM
  #890
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Indeed, I was under the impression that we were all NHL fans here though.
You'd be surprised

I know of a couple of people on the BoH boards who aren't necessarily "NHL fans".

I'm really not actually an "NHL fan". I don't have a "team" I follow, I'm a casual hockey fan at best. I AM interested in the business side of things with the sport in general, but I like chiming in on the various baseball/football OT threads that pop up on the BoH boards.

I observe and watch this saga because I'm interested to see how businesses/bureaucracy works from a layman's standpoint, and what decisions are made. I"ve learned more about how business works from the wonderful people on here than I can get reading a book about it.


And as Killion pointed out, this discussion, while being about the Yotes, also is an overall general discussion of how the business world works these days, and how the things we are seeing here are slowly spreading out across various other places, and not just with hockey teams, but the general overall idea that there are hurting places right now of business practices and how various local governments are trying to deal with shortfalls and problems.

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07-17-2013, 07:32 PM
  #891
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Is Glendale providing the only subsidy? Or is there a special county or state measure also?

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07-17-2013, 07:35 PM
  #892
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Is Glendale providing the only subsidy? Or is there a special county or state measure also?
As far as I know it's just Glendale. I think if this were a state issue it would be getting a little more press in Az I would think

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07-17-2013, 07:39 PM
  #893
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The visions of Killion appearing on Discovery's "Naked and Afraid" just sent chills down my spine. (had to be the canned cheddar)
... dig a tunnel from your basement to the nearest stand of cacti TL. Start evaluating people by "outdoor skill sets". Tag & number the deer or antelope wandering by you yard by order of consumption. Install an above ground swimming pool for water storage. Figure out the best sight-lines on your property, installing motion detectors, trip wires & booby traps. Watch that movie Tremors over & over & over again, paying particular attention to Bert...

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07-17-2013, 07:52 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Simple! It is my belief that government, local, State or federal is not empowered to make the kinds of decisions the COG have made on behalf of their citizenry. Government was not created to be an arbitrator or bidder of the taxpayers dollars. In this particular instance, like the present Federal government, they are overstepping their constitutional rights with $$ that is the peoples. Sure, you could make the argument that the people voted these incompetents into office, however, a look at the % of Glendale citizens who actually voted, it points to low representation and low information voters. I do not believe , if given the facts, that many people would support the ongoing boneheaded decisions that have been made by this group.

I believe in limited government, and this is the antithesis of such. Glendale has mismanaged its business in such a way as to be likely irreversible, the consequences are dire. How, does a well informed citizenship vote to squash Police and Fire budgets in favor of supporting out of state entrepreneurs? They have purchased homes in my city, not Glendale, and from the looks of things have no intention of staying beyond five years. Count me as one of the skeptical, I do not believe the city made the right choice when voting to approve the AMF and its other features designed to rob the city of its assets.
I would submit the reasons for purchasing homes in Scottsdale is due to legacy. Most of the players an staff have homes there. There original practice facility (Alltel Ice Den) is in Scottsdale. It would make more sense (from a logistical standpoint) for an owner to reside near that, than live remotely on the other side of town. To me that has more impact than giving posters another reason to slam Glendale.

Since you have been adamant on several occasions that the location of the arena should have been somewhere in the east... as in Scottsdale, I'm curious as to your opinion as to why Scottsdale's city council went against Ellman's Los Arcos project when it appeared that the citizens of Scottsdale reportedly voted twice to approve the tax incentives needed to build it.??

I never followed the saga over there to great detail, but on the surface it looks like we had a city government act 180 degrees against the will of its constituents here??

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07-17-2013, 07:55 PM
  #895
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As far as I know it's just Glendale.
Yes Im afraid thats it. Glendales alone on this one. I do seem to recall reports that the former Mayor & Senator John McCain had at various times sought State support however, just wasnt on. If perhaps this was 20-40yrs in the future, Phoenix, Scottsdale & Glendale etc having perhaps Amalgamated, the economy robust & healthy, the electorate & elected more than willing then sure. As it sits however, I fear its a big gamble, and certainly not one Id be making. What annoys me more than anything including the deal is that they had the upper hand. RFP Bids, the requests for "guarantee's" and their own "out clause" yet folded. Blinked.

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07-17-2013, 07:55 PM
  #896
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... dig a tunnel from your basement to the nearest stand of cacti TL. Start evaluating people by "outdoor skill sets". Tag & number the deer or antelope wandering by you yard by order of consumption. Install an above ground swimming pool for water storage. Figure out the best sight-lines on your property, installing motion detectors, trip wires & booby traps. Watch that movie Tremors over & over & over again, paying particular attention to Bert...
No deer or antelope here.... lots of coyotes (no pun intended) and gila monsters tho.

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07-17-2013, 07:57 PM
  #897
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Since you have been adamant on several occasions that the location of the arena should have been somewhere in the east... as in Scottsdale, I'm curious as to your opinion as to why Scottsdale's city council went against Ellman's Los Arcos project when it appeared that the citizens of Scottsdale reportedly voted twice to approve the tax incentives needed to build it.??

I never followed the saga over there to great detail, but on the surface it looks like we had a city government act 180 degrees against the will of its constituents here??
Because Ellman held the financials pretty close to his vest and Scottsdale didn't like the optics. One member of Council specifically stating that they (the council member) wasn't too keen on a 2013 selling date (Ellman).

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07-17-2013, 08:00 PM
  #898
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Govts' are out of control kihekah. ...

No fooling?

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07-17-2013, 08:08 PM
  #899
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Because Ellman held the financials pretty close to his vest and Scottsdale didn't like the optics. One member of Council specifically stating that they (the council member) wasn't too keen on a 2013 selling date (Ellman).
Yes, Scottsdale asked him for financial, his reply "there private", and that didnt sit well with the duly elected. Essentially taking this guy at face value, that he had the bona-fides & wherewithal based solely on his prospectus & word. As history has clearly demonstrated, they were right to be both prudent & sceptical. Sure enough Scottsdale wouldve been a preferable location but you really have to ask yourself; with Ellman & Moyes running the show, to believe the outcome wouldve been any different be it Scottsdale, Glendale or Peoria, whats the diff? These guys were gonna mess up no matter what. Even if theyd built an arena right smack in downtown Phoenix.

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07-17-2013, 08:53 PM
  #900
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The difference between other governments (Cities, states, provinces) subsidizing a pro sports franchise and Glendale is that Glendale is broke. No wait, they are deeper than broke, they are 6' below their heads broke.

Now, if they weren't talking about cutting civil services, then sure, go for it, spend spend spend. BUT they are, the lack of concern on that front really concerns me, it goes to show how little the people there care for their well being.

What's next? A hospital or two close down to make the payments? Yikes.

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