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Why hasn't Weber won the Norris yet?

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07-16-2013, 04:08 AM
  #1
TheBlueJacket
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Why hasn't Weber won the Norris yet?

Shea Weber is one of the best defensemen in the league rivaled by only Chara and Keith (Weber is usually rated higher than Keith by writers). But Keith and Chara have won the Norris, Weber has only been nominated. So why hasn't Weber won the Norris? This season Weber wasn't even nominated. Am I wrong, is Weber not one of the best defensemen anymore?

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07-16-2013, 05:15 AM
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oreilly22
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Nashville is a small hockey market, so he will have a more difficult time accumulating votes from the writers that vote for the Norris. The defensemen that are at the top deserve to be nominated, but it is also a popularity contest that Weber loses because he doesn't play for a team that receives a lot of media attention.

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07-16-2013, 05:57 AM
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triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlueJacket View Post
Shea Weber is one of the best defensemen in the league rivaled by only Chara and Keith (Weber is usually rated higher than Keith by writers). But Keith and Chara have won the Norris, Weber has only been nominated. So why hasn't Weber won the Norris? This season Weber wasn't even nominated. Am I wrong, is Weber not one of the best defensemen anymore?
First, there are no nominations, I think you mean finalist. Next, know that most of the writers that vote on the award are located in or near New England and have historically showed a bias to the players in that area or original 6 teams. You have to go all the way back to Chris Pronger to find a winner where that didn't hold true.

Also, Norris winners seem to be more offensive minded point leaders. Karlsson won it without even being on the pk unit, playing protected minutes, but he put up way more assist than Weber that year.

If it were just about being one of the best defensemen, then Weber would get more votes. Until you can fix the mindset and regional bias, Weber will have a tough time winning the Norris.

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07-16-2013, 06:26 AM
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I'm pretty sure Weber will in it in the future, when Nashville has a good season and Weber dominates as a single individual inside his defensive pair, or in general if he peaks out from their defence.

Because that thing matters. Ryan Suter was "problem" at Norris-votings for Weber before. Suter ate his votes. Even Nicklas Lidström rarely won, when he played season with a great defensive pair. But when he played great seasons carrying a pylon, somebody like 40-old Larry Murphy, Fredrik Olausson, Jason Woolley, Andreas Lilja, Daniil Markov or Brad Stuart, then everybody was looking, omg Lidström is that great.

But when Lidström was playing with great pairs like Coffey, Konstantinov, younger Murphy, or Mathieu Schneider, he did not win those trophies. Only expeption was year 2008 with Rafalski. But Rafalski wasn't a defensive stud either, more of an offensive weapon, and Lidström carried the defensive load on that pair and also outproduced Raffy.

Now Weber's situation is ready start winning Norrises. No more equally good teammates at defence and he is ready. Has been ready for few years. Now it just needs a good season from both Preds and Weber.

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07-16-2013, 07:49 AM
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Because he plays in Nashville. If he played in New York or Detroit he would have won it in 08-09 and or 10-11. He will have to blow everyone else out of the water to win it here sadly.

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07-16-2013, 08:39 AM
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PredsV82
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combination of media bias and bad luck. the year he really should have won it just happened to be the year Karlsson shat out those gaudy assist numbers, and the year Lidstrom won it both Weber and chara had better stats but it seemed the media was giving it to Lids one last time before he retired.

last season he actually had the numbers to be considered but he started the year so poorly and the season was so short, and that coupled with the Preds dismal performance, the media put him out of their thoughts

I defnitely agree with the poster who said he has a better chance now that Suter is gone, as I am sure there were some in the media who thought Suter was better and wouldnt vote for both players or that Weber was only as good as he was because he was playing with Suter

What I am hoping is now that Karlsson has won it once, the next time he has big offensive numbers, the voters remember he doesnt play a lot of actual defense and vote for a more well rounded player

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07-16-2013, 08:53 AM
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He was absolutely robbed that last year Lidstrom won it. Every national media guy I heard discussing it prior to the awards said they had voted for Weber, and that it wasn't even close.

Lidstrom won it on the strength of EC media that vote on name alone.

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07-16-2013, 12:50 PM
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The year Lidstrom won it the Norris was about respecting your elders, no matter how good you are an older mistake prone Lidstrom would have won anyway. Now, the year Karlsson won it was about offense.

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07-16-2013, 11:49 PM
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hockeyjack89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oreilly22 View Post
Nashville is a small hockey market, so he will have a more difficult time accumulating votes from the writers that vote for the Norris. The defensemen that are at the top deserve to be nominated, but it is also a popularity contest that Weber loses because he doesn't play for a team that receives a lot of media attention.
Do you think they'll get more media attention now that Jones is there?

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07-17-2013, 01:35 AM
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HooliganX2
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It has a lot to due with points and reputation. Weber will need to hit over 50 point again to have a chance to win it.

Weber deserved it in 08-09. I think he deserved it on 11-12 as well.

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07-17-2013, 04:56 AM
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oreilly22
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Do you think they'll get more media attention now that Jones is there?
Good question. We may actually get a little more. Pierre McGuire sure was going nuts when we got Jones.

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07-17-2013, 09:46 AM
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ThirdManIn
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In my opinion it shows the flaw in almost all trophies and the way votes are cast. The NHL is happy to allow hockey writers to vote for almost every award. If these are truly awards for players deemed to be the best at something, they should be voted on by the NHLPA and GMs, not members of the media who, by and large, focus on covering a single team (most of those writers are in major markets in Canada and along the North Eastern portion of the USA).

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07-17-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
In my opinion it shows the flaw in almost all trophies and the way votes are cast. The NHL is happy to allow hockey writers to vote for almost every award. If these are truly awards for players deemed to be the best at something, they should be voted on by the NHLPA and GMs, not members of the media who, by and large, focus on covering a single team (most of those writers are in major markets in Canada and along the North Eastern portion of the USA).
I think part of that, also, is that when there's a question as to whether or not one of two potentially equally deserving candidates should be chosen, the bias is going to drift towards "what makes for the best story" - not out of some sort of conscious effort in that direction, but simply because that's what such folks are inclined to look for (heck, it's why they have their jobs to begin with). So any feel-good story is going to capture imaginations and get marginally more votes.

The obvious most recent example would be this past season's Vezina Trophy. But it can also be seen in the whole "Respect The Old Soldier" storyline Lidstrom had going on.

Frankly, I'm not sure of any good way to make it more objective. I don't think GMs and the NHLPA would do much better - they'd be even more monomaniacally focused on their individual teams, with occasional moments of "sure, I've heard that name". I doubt the quality would improve.

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07-17-2013, 11:44 AM
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ThirdManIn
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Vezina is voted on by GMs, so Bob didn't win it because of a feel good story

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07-17-2013, 01:35 PM
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hockeyjack89
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Originally Posted by oreilly22 View Post
Good question. We may actually get a little more. Pierre McGuire sure was going nuts when we got Jones.
Haha no wonder, from what I've seen he's basically Weber 2.0

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07-17-2013, 03:27 PM
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ThirdManIn
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He doesn't have the mean streak Weber has.

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07-17-2013, 07:52 PM
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token grinder
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shea weber hasn't won the Norris because he plays defense

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07-17-2013, 08:55 PM
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TheBlueJacket
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
shea weber hasn't won the Norris because he plays defense
but the norris is a defenseman only award

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07-17-2013, 10:24 PM
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PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlueJacket View Post
but the norris is a defenseman only award
you miss the sarcasm....the poster is referring to the fact that Karlsson won the award (over Weber) despite the fact that he is almost exclusively an "offensive" defenseman and doesnt really play much actual "defense"

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07-17-2013, 10:49 PM
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TheBlueJacket
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
you miss the sarcasm....the poster is referring to the fact that Karlsson won the award (over Weber) despite the fact that he is almost exclusively an "offensive" defenseman and doesnt really play much actual "defense"
oh, I thought he meant defense as in the position

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07-18-2013, 01:33 AM
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token grinder
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shea weber hasn't won the Norris because he has the personality of this pale hotel wall.

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