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Will Markov and Gionta both be gone after next season?

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Old
07-17-2013, 09:55 PM
  #26
Et le But
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Depends mostly on what they're asking for, but I sincerely doubt we won't have players on the roster who those two won't be more useful than.
Well if Markov expects to make 6M after next year, then yeah, sadly the Markov era will be over. But it baffles me how nobody gives Markov any credit for coming back and playing a big part of last year, he was probably our best player except for maybe Plekanec while Subban was held out, and even in some of his isolated terrible games he managed to put up points.

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07-17-2013, 09:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well if Markov expects to make 6M after next year, then yeah, sadly the Markov era will be over. But it baffles me how nobody gives Markov any credit for coming back and playing a big part of last year, he was probably our best player except for maybe Plekanec while Subban was held out, and even in some of his isolated terrible games he managed to put up points.
Great pp specialist but a super slow skater. What a drag it is getting old.

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07-17-2013, 09:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
OP said that "Gionta lacks that intensity and leadership that I want to see in our captain".

Am I dreaming? Did he say that? Some people on this website already know that I hate Gionta, but I would NEVER say this about him.
Umm, yeah I said it. I'm not begging you to agree with me. But please, enlighten me on his leadership qualities since this team seems to have done so much under his captaincy.

What I see from Gionta is mostly what I don't see. I barely noticed the guy when he was out there this past season. That is the definition of a floater.

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07-17-2013, 10:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Malreg View Post
Of all the things to criticize Markov on, the powerplay? Really?

He's still one of, if not the best powerplay QB in the league.

I think he sticks around, but at a reduced salary and a reduced role. He can't be playing 25 minutes a night and playing top minutes on the PK.
Not criticizing what he can do on the power play. As stated, he still sees the ice very well. I said he has an inability to keep the puck in when we do have a power play. He can't bend down to stop it. The puck often jumps over his stick and out of the zone. Just an observation.

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07-17-2013, 10:03 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by CanadiensVault View Post
Umm, yeah I said it. I'm not begging you to agree with me. But please, enlighten me on his leadership qualities since this team seems to have done so much under his captaincy.

What I see from Gionta is mostly what I don't see. I barely noticed the guy when he was out there this past season. That is the definition of a floater.
Enlighten us as to how bad he is as a captain, since you're the one making the wild accusations. Do you have some friends inside the locker room? And I guess Iginla is some awful captain too, right? Koivu? Alfy? All bums.

It's more indicative of not being very good at watching the game. Gionta is the least of this team's worries.

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by habdynasty View Post
Great pp specialist but a super slow skater. What a drag it is getting old.
I wouldn't say he's "only" a PP specialist though, he's not Kaberle. Yes he's slow as hell but he can still defend when he doesn't try to do too much (which unfortunately happens too often), he can still make timely interceptions, is a great passer, and if anything is more physical than he used to be.

He's not what he once was, but considering how effective he was despite missing two years of hockey, I wouldn't write him off. I wouldn't rush to resign him if he expects to be paid like a first pairing defender, but considering the type of free agent defenders who get overpaid, I wouldn't rush to say goodbye to Markov either. I'd take a past it Markov over a prime Bergeron type of journeyman.

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07-17-2013, 10:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CanadiensVault View Post
Umm, yeah I said it. I'm not begging you to agree with me. But please, enlighten me on his leadership qualities since this team seems to have done so much under his captaincy.

What I see from Gionta is mostly what I don't see. I barely noticed the guy when he was out there this past season. That is the definition of a floater.
I'm not the biggest Gionta fan but there is no denying the guy compete every night. He takes dumb decisions and is mostly a north south player but a floater he is not. He's a leader by determination type of guy.

That said i do hope the Habs won't resign him next season. His time is done as far as im concerned

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:11 PM
  #33
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You guys kill me with the letting Markov go talk. It's just ridiculous and prove that most of ya'll don't know what it takes to win a championship... Just like the people in Pittsburgh that wanted Gonchar gone.

When will you guys realize that you can never have enough of good puck moving + solid first pass defenseman on your team.

It's the coach & gm fault if Markov got exposed like that.

1) They got the guy playing 25 + mins

2) They go and acquire Drewski at the trade dealine

Lack of vision

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Gionta just floats around, really? He's overpaid, no longer very physical and might not have a usable shoulder anymore, but the last thing the man is is a floater. He's one of the best two-way forwards on the team and still can will his way in to some garbage goals.

And the disrespect Markov gets around here is something. Markov had some serious defensive flaws last year but Therrien was overplaying him and using him in a stupid-difficult role. If Markov was used as the 2nd pairing even strength guy he now is all season (a lot like that Edler guy so many people here want), he could have been even better. As it was he was one of the most effective PP weapons in the league and did probably as much good as bad in a defensive role he wasn't suited for. The late season Subban-Markov pairing was a possession monster, and while Subban was the driver of that, Markov was a more dominating partner than Gorges.

This board obsesses over cap space, but what good is cap space if all it gets us is the likes of Briere?
This past season, I didn't notice him. Plekanec and Ryder were doing most of the work out there and Gionta was sort of the third wheel. Didn't contribute much at all to that line and, in fact, probably brought them down. He used to be a great player. A lot of speed, a lot of skill and a great shot. He is now ineffective. Completely useless to be honest. He's a small player and we need to swap him for a bigger guy. A guy who can crash, bang and get in front of the net. A little help and size for Plekanec would be nice.

To me, it's Subban's doing. That guy is arguably the best puck-carrying defenseman in the League. PK can make Hal Gill look good. To say Markov was more dominating than Gorges is really not saying much. Gorges was pretty terrible this past season. Not denying what Markov can bring on the offensive side of the table. But, defensively, he's just not there and I feel like he never will be. People can blame it on TOI, but I think if he plays 5 minutes less or 5 minutes more, it will make no difference.

I'll agree with you on Briere though. Not thrilled about it. At least it's short-term. Low risk.

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by 131313 View Post
I'm not the biggest Gionta fan but there is no denying the guy compete every night. He takes dumb decisions and is mostly a north south player but a floater he is not. He's a leader by determination type of guy.

That said i do hope the Habs won't resign him next season. His time is done as far as im concerned
Okay, what do you want me to call it? Invisible? He competes, but he still isn't noticeable on either ends of the ice.

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07-17-2013, 10:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Enlighten us as to how bad he is as a captain, since you're the one making the wild accusations. Do you have some friends inside the locker room? And I guess Iginla is some awful captain too, right? Koivu? Alfy? All bums.

It's more indicative of not being very good at watching the game. Gionta is the least of this team's worries.
I already told you why I feel he's not a good captain. I don't feel he leads by example on the ice. Good guy. Bad captain.

I don't think Gionta is a "worry" per say. I just feel his spot can be filled with a guy that can be a lot more effective for 5M per season. We don't need a has-been that doesn't even have size to compensate.

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07-17-2013, 10:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CanadiensVault View Post
This past season, I didn't notice him. Plekanec and Ryder were doing most of the work out there and Gionta was sort of the third wheel. Didn't contribute much at all to that line and, in fact, probably brought them down. He used to be a great player. A lot of speed, a lot of skill and a great shot. He is now ineffective. Completely useless to be honest. He's a small player and we need to swap him for a bigger guy. A guy who can crash, bang and get in front of the net. A little help and size for Plekanec would be nice.

To me, it's Subban's doing. That guy is arguably the best puck-carrying defenseman in the League. PK can make Hal Gill look good. To say Markov was more dominating than Gorges is really not saying much. Gorges was pretty terrible this past season. Not denying what Markov can bring on the offensive side of the table. But, defensively, he's just not there and I feel like he never will be. People can blame it on TOI, but I think if he plays 5 minutes less or 5 minutes more, it will make no difference.

I'll agree with you on Briere though. Not thrilled about it. At least it's short-term. Low risk.
For Gionta being the third wheel, depends on what you're talking about.

Purely in the offensive zone Plekanec and Ryder were more involved. In the defensive and neutral zones Gionta was doing a lot and he was pretty important in that line's entries into the offensive zone and managing a puck retrival and breakout in the defensive zone (Therrien's team really liked attacking up the right side). Since this line was one of the East's top shutdown lines, what happened outside the offensive zone is quite relevant when assessing importance of contribution.

And when the line was Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta there was no question about it, the balance of play was Plekanec and Gionta playing of each other as they turned the ice into a track meet. Bourque was quiet justifiably kept to responsibilities related to his core skill set.

This should be emphasized. Bourque is currently the flavour of the month here due to a good playoff. But as much as his overall play was better than previously, a key reason he's gone from reviled to praised is that they dialed his on ice way back from what it was the year before so his poor puck skills and hockey sense aren't major handicaps.

We saw in 2012 that Plekanec can't carry a player as limited as Bourque on his line all by himself, a good two-way winger is needed on the other side to carry the balance of play so Bourque can be just the big guy that can shoot.

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:56 PM
  #38
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Why didn't you read some of the other threads which discuss the trading of these players ad nauseum.

Both players gone? Not a chance. Better chance of them both being back after extensions.

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07-17-2013, 11:39 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
You guys kill me with the letting Markov go talk. It's just ridiculous and prove that most of ya'll don't know what it takes to win a championship... Just like the people in Pittsburgh that wanted Gonchar gone.

When will you guys realize that you can never have enough of good puck moving + solid first pass defenseman on your team.

It's the coach & gm fault if Markov got exposed like that.

1) They got the guy playing 25 + mins

2) They go and acquire Drewski at the trade dealine

Lack of vision
that's all I gotta say..

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07-18-2013, 12:11 AM
  #40
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I know I'm being picky, but the word "smurf" is getting annoying. Oh, I fully acknowledge the size issue on the team - it's just the term that's INCREDIBLY over-used on these boards.
Allow me to present a few alternatives:

Shawties
The vertically challenged
Tattoo (for whomever's old enough to remember Fantasy Island)
Little 'uns
Danny Devito's little brother
Stout
Mini me
Itty Bitty
Stunted
Short stack
Half pint
Umpa lumpa
Slight
...and last but not least:
"the last one on the team to get rained on"

There... I feel better.

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07-18-2013, 12:17 AM
  #41
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My hope is Gionta is traded at the deadline for a 2nd or 3rd. Markov resigns for a 3 yr deal at 3.5 per.

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Old
07-18-2013, 12:29 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadiensVault View Post
Umm, yeah I said it. I'm not begging you to agree with me. But please, enlighten me on his leadership qualities since this team seems to have done so much under his captaincy.

What I see from Gionta is mostly what I don't see. I barely noticed the guy when he was out there this past season. That is the definition of a floater.
2010: He played a big part on going to the Eastern Conference Finals. He was one of our most important player during the season AND the playoffs. He was awesome in the playoffs as well. Just can't believe you don't remember this...
2011: During the series against the Bruins, he showed up. Again, one of our most important player during this series.
2012: Was injured. The team sucked. Everyone sucked.
2013: He did good when he played with Plekanec and he was still able to win battles along the boards + he was going to the net even if he's the shortest guy on the team after Desharnais. We finished 2nd in the Eastern Conference.

So, I'm sorry but Gionta did a lot for this team. I've never seen him being a floater like you called him. He's good defensively, he wins his battles, he goes to the net and the guy shows up in the playoffs for us. You can say whatever you want about him but calling him a floater, is ********.

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07-18-2013, 04:15 AM
  #43
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I think Gionta's pretty much gone after his contract ends. Maybe we could trade him at the deadline for a pick or prospect.

Regarding Markov, I really hope Bergevin's making the right decision. If he wants to stay, he should be signed for like 1-2y at 4-4.5m per year and get a less prominent role (mainly PP, maybe around 20 minutes per game). The shortened season showed that he's still great on the PP, but lacks mobility and speed to be a reliable defender at ES. If he doesn't want to sign for 4-4.5m or 2y at max, MB should try to trade him at the deadline.

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07-18-2013, 07:09 AM
  #44
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I think this will be Gionta's final year with the team.

As for Markov, I'm not sure. If he is willing to take a paycut and play a limited role at ES and big PP time then I would be all for bringing him back. I don't see him as a guy who can play the big minutes anymore but maybe he'll surprise this season.

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07-18-2013, 07:24 AM
  #45
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I think this will be Gionta's final year with the team.

As for Markov, I'm not sure. If he is willing to take a paycut and play a limited role at ES and big PP time then I would be all for bringing him back. I don't see him as a guy who can play the big minutes anymore but maybe he'll surprise this season.
Depends on your definition of "big minutes". I think he can thrive at 20-21, maybe 22 in certain games. High end #3 at least.

I think the whole "Markov is slow" thing is overblown. People cherry pick a couple games where he was visibly struggling(run down? minor injury?) like the Boston game where he and Emelin both struggled. He did get caught pinching in spots where in the past he had the acceleration to get back. His overall mobility is still ok, I think those spots where he looked a step behind may have as much to do with playing big minutes early in a condensed(less off days) schedule. The first 10 games the lowest minutes he played was 23:06 and he had one game at 29:50.

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Old
07-18-2013, 07:40 AM
  #46
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I assume that Gionta won't be back, so we can make room and cap space for younger players.

I think Markov will retire a Hab and might be willing to take one or two year contracts from here out like Lidstrom did in Detroit. I doubt it will be cheap. Something like $5M a year.

I don't understand why people are ragging on him. He was easily our second best defenseman behind the Norris winner. Not as fast as he used to be, but still very smart, good anticipation defensively and one of the best PP QBs in the league.

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Old
07-18-2013, 09:00 AM
  #47
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I don't understand why people are ragging on him. He was easily our second best defenseman behind the Norris winner. Not as fast as he used to be, but still very smart, good anticipation defensively and one of the best PP QBs in the league.
Maybe because he had 23/30 points on the PP and was -9, while Subban had 26/38 on the PP and was +12.

Markov's still a quite good defender, but he should really have his TOI reduced to ~20 minutes.

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07-18-2013, 09:27 AM
  #48
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Markov: A lot will depend on his mindset and his health. I have no doubt MB will make him a one year offer (and I don't think it will be much less than his current deal in terms of AVV, no less than $5M...his agent will bring Streit deal up as a comparable).
But the question is does Markov accept it. Markov might look at this as his last time to cash in on a deal and look around the league for a team will to give him a 3-4 year in the $5.5M-$6M a year range. Again looking at what Streit got...heck it could be the Flyers looking to replace KT. Also Markov might be thinking about playing a year or two back home before retiring, so if that was the case, and he feels his health is not going to allow him to play another 4-5 years of pro hockey, might see this as the time to go to the KHL.
I would guess Markov already might know his future plans, but I'm sure he won't commit to anything til after the season is over.

Gionta: As much as I like him, the writting is on the wall about his departure next year. Again he is a good enough player to warrant a contract in the $4.5M-$5M a year range (probably not a long term deal...two years seems right), and that just doesn't seem to fit into Montreal's future plans. This upcoming season is gonna let a lot of teams know weather he is an injury plagued 15-20 goal man in limited games, or could still be a 30 goal a year guy.
I would guess Gionta plays out the year and weights his non-Montreal options during the off-season.

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07-18-2013, 09:29 AM
  #49
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I guess I'm one of the few people here who likes Gionta. I really don't get the hate. I'm convinced that if he was 6'2 and nothing else changed about his game, people would love him.

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07-18-2013, 09:31 AM
  #50
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I guess I'm one of the few people here who likes Gionta. I really don't get the hate. I'm convinced that if he was 6'2 and nothing else changed about his game, people would love him.
we all ''like him''. not 5 mil and the role hes having.

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