HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

NYI/Buffalo (Vanek)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-17-2013, 08:22 PM
  #151
Lord Flacko*
Down to let it go
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,399
vCash: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
The flip side...when was the last time a player like Vanek was moved..in terms of wingers...he is top 5 easily.

If they wait till the deadline many more teams could afford him and the bidding war would start. He is a difference maker type of player for a cup run.
Kovalchuk, Hossa, Pominville.

Lord Flacko* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 08:50 PM
  #152
Frankie41987
Registered User
 
Frankie41987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kings Park
Country: Tibet
Posts: 352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Your argument is carp. Vanek has scored at least 25G every season (minus this last one of course, where he still got 20 in 38 GP). He does this every year with carp linemates, carp team possession, carp TOI, carp PP coaching, you name it.
Oh come on now, I know buffalo doesn't have the best players but I wouldn't call them carp. Tuna I can see, maybe even salmon, but carp? I don't see it.

Frankie41987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 09:02 PM
  #153
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie41987 View Post
Oh come on now, I know buffalo doesn't have the best players but I wouldn't call them carp. Tuna I can see, maybe even salmon, but carp? I don't see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RRnC077uYk

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 10:48 PM
  #154
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 37,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
There seems to be a misconception about how far along the Isles are in their rebuild. It's still going on and while the Isles do have a deep prospect pool, ALL of the elite assets are penciled into the future lineup and none are expendable. Strome would give the Isles another dynamic offensive player whether it's at center or wing, Nelson would give a big and skilled C/LW, Reinhart and Pulock as top-4 d-men. Mayfield, Pokka, and Pedan were all 2nd/3rd picks who could also be in the mix. The Isles have yet to get ANY contribution from the 2010-2012 draft classes.

Look at what the Isles need and you have the answer by simply looking inside the organization. The prospects have all been developing and being groomed into the roles they are expected to fill at the NHL level. The Isles are no longer rushing these kids anymore and look like they have done a complete 180 and decided to over-ripen them. Strome was a man amongst boys in the prospect camp and he's probably slated for the AHL. Nelson looks like a lock, but he's no guarantee to get a spot either. Only Donovan looks like a lock and he's had 4 years of development time with 2 impressive AHL seasons.

The real question mark is in goal. I'd love Vanek on the Isles, but giving up quality assets for him is more luxury than necessity with the very real risk of another Crying Ryan scenario. I would think the Isles would have far more interest in Miller. With Nabby back, it's clear the Isles still have not given up on Poulin, Nilsson and possibly Koskinen. This is a critical year for how the goaltending shapes up.

Islander fans may not like to admit it, but there is a very real chance that we'll miss the playoffs. At the very least, Isles will have a bit of a struggle ahead of them. I think the offense will be fine, mainly because I believe Okposo and Bailey will take steps forward and I think there are a few others (like Grabner) who could contribute more.

The defense is marginal though. The top 3 are OK, but we don't have a #4 dman and we are still too small and soft.

And, goaltending is meh at best.

A winger for Tavares would be great, but should be real low on the priorities.

As for the Vanek stuff, I'm sure we're going to see these proposals from Buffalo fans with the same obsessive zeal that Nuck fans pushed Ballard, Leaf fans pushed Komisarek, etc. Obviously, Buffalo is a rebuilding team and cashing in a impending UFA on young assets would be in their best interests. So, Sabre fans will look at Isles, see tons of cap space, a need for a high level winger, and *BINGO* - weekly Vanek proposals.

The problem is that Vanek is looking at a huge payday. I don't think any of the guys who signed this summer are at his level, and they got 5+ million with loooooooong term deals. Its not hard to project Vanek at 7+ million and six or seven years. And, the chances of him getting that on the Island are nil. So, he would definitely be a rental, and that is not worth major assets.

I also think there are few games being played by Sabre fans in this thread. Vanek, at 29, is described as "twenty something" whereas a 25 YO Okposo is practically washed up. And, then there is the inevitable "First round picks are not important" stuff when any Sabre fan would scream if Reiger moved first rounders. First round picks are always unimportant when it is the other team giving them up!

The aspects of this thread I do agree with are 1) Vanek is a stud winger - regardless of whether or not you see him as top 10, he is an elite scorer. 2) If conditions were right (and, again, they are not) he'd be a huge pickup for a team like the Isles.

__________________
Man, do I ever miss Oleg Kvasha. If Oleg was here, everything would be OK.
Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:01 PM
  #155
LotteryForLife*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
Replace Okposo with Strome and we have a deal. Buffalo can eat 50% of Vaneks salary too.
Strome is untouchable. Go take a walk

LotteryForLife* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:02 PM
  #156
LotteryForLife*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Strome>>>>>>>>>Vanek

Buffalo will do better than either of these proposals. Pass.
So would the Islanders

LotteryForLife* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:09 PM
  #157
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 37,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie41987 View Post
Oh come on now, I know buffalo doesn't have the best players but I wouldn't call them carp. Tuna I can see, maybe even salmon, but carp? I don't see it.
You're just fishing for responses aren't you? This kind of trolling is a bad haddock. Sometimes I do it myself, just for the halibut. But, no matter how much I try to hook others on my line, I just flounder about.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:10 PM
  #158
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Islander fans may not like to admit it, but there is a very real chance that we'll miss the playoffs. At the very least, Isles will have a bit of a struggle ahead of them. I think the offense will be fine, mainly because I believe Okposo and Bailey will take steps forward and I think there are a few others (like Grabner) who could contribute more.

The defense is marginal though. The top 3 are OK, but we don't have a #4 dman and we are still too small and soft.

And, goaltending is meh at best.

A winger for Tavares would be great, but should be real low on the priorities.

As for the Vanek stuff, I'm sure we're going to see these proposals from Buffalo fans with the same obsessive zeal that Nuck fans pushed Ballard, Leaf fans pushed Komisarek, etc. Obviously, Buffalo is a rebuilding team and cashing in a impending UFA on young assets would be in their best interests. So, Sabre fans will look at Isles, see tons of cap space, a need for a high level winger, and *BINGO* - weekly Vanek proposals.

The problem is that Vanek is looking at a huge payday. I don't think any of the guys who signed this summer are at his level, and they got 5+ million with loooooooong term deals. Its not hard to project Vanek at 7+ million and six or seven years. And, the chances of him getting that on the Island are nil. So, he would definitely be a rental, and that is not worth major assets.

I also think there are few games being played by Sabre fans in this thread. Vanek, at 29, is described as "twenty something" whereas a 25 YO Okposo is practically washed up. And, then there is the inevitable "First round picks are not important" stuff when any Sabre fan would scream if Reiger moved first rounders. First round picks are always unimportant when it is the other team giving them up!

The aspects of this thread I do agree with are 1) Vanek is a stud winger - regardless of whether or not you see him as top 10, he is an elite scorer. 2) If conditions were right (and, again, they are not) he'd be a huge pickup for a team like the Isles.
I mostly agree-I see nothing to be had between our teams here and understand the reluctance on all ends though I have to say I wanted to stop reading when I saw you put Vanek in the same sentence as Komisarek and Ballard...I mean really dude?

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:11 PM
  #159
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
You're just fishing for responses aren't you? This kind of trolling is a bad haddock. Sometimes I do it myself, just for the halibut. But, no matter how much I try to hook others on my line, I just flounder about.

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:27 PM
  #160
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Your argument is carp. Vanek has scored at least 25G every season (minus this last one of course, where he still got 20 in 38 GP). He does this every year with carp linemates, carp team possession, carp TOI, carp PP coaching, you name it.

Criticizing his playoff performance is also baseless, as discount his rookie year and he has 18 points in 26 playoff games, very solid especially given the type of teams that the '10 and '11 Sabres were.

I'd take Ovie, Hossa, Parise, or Kane over him at Wing atm. Hall, Yakupov, etc have the potential to become better but aren't atm. Neal, D Sedin, Kessel, Eberle, Nash, Voracek, are definitely not better.
1) Scoring 25 goals a year doesn't make you a top 5 winger.

2) His team may have been bad, but his linemates were average at worst.

3) 18 points in 26 playoff games is not solid.

4) Ovechkin, Hossa, Parise, Kane >>>>> Vanek
Hall, D. Sedin, Kessel, Nash >>> Vanek
Neal, Eberle, Voracek > Vanek

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:42 PM
  #161
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
1) Scoring 25 goals a year doesn't make you a top 5 winger.

2) His team may have been bad, but his linemates were average at worst.

3) 18 points in 26 playoff games is not solid.

4) Ovechkin, Hossa, Parise, Kane >>>>> Vanek
Hall, D. Sedin, Kessel, Nash >>> Vanek
Neal, Eberle, Voracek > Vanek
none of the last 3 have the pedigree that Vanek does and the inclusion of Voracek is completely laughable. 6 years from now maybe we can argue that point however up until now Voracek couldnt hold Vanek's jock.

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 11:47 PM
  #162
couture23
Sabres & Red Sox
 
couture23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: GTA/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
1) Scoring 25 goals a year doesn't make you a top 5 winger.

2) His team may have been bad, but his linemates were average at worst.

3) 18 points in 26 playoff games is not solid.

4) Ovechkin, Hossa, Parise, Kane >>>>> Vanek
Hall, D. Sedin, Kessel, Nash >>> Vanek
Neal, Eberle, Voracek > Vanek
Hall, Kessel, and Nash are near equal players to Vanek. But there is no way, I mean absolutely no way that Voracek is better than Vanek. He has hit 50 points once (exactly 50) and has been a plus player ONCE in his career. Sure he's younger and has a nicer cap hit, but skill wise - Vanek shoots him through the roof.

You are such a homer it's not even funny.

couture23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 12:11 AM
  #163
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
none of the last 3 have the pedigree that Vanek does and the inclusion of Voracek is completely laughable. 6 years from now maybe we can argue that point however up until now Voracek couldnt hold Vanek's jock.
Neal definitely has the pedigree. Eberle may not have a full history, but has shown he is already better than Vanek. Voracek is still breaking out, but is arguably better than Vanek now and definitely will be in the future. In 6 years Vanek could only hope to hold Voracek's jock. He'll be looking to do that as soon as next year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Hall, Kessel, and Nash are near equal players to Vanek. But there is no way, I mean absolutely no way that Voracek is better than Vanek. He has hit 50 points once (exactly 50) and has been a plus player ONCE in his career. Sure he's younger and has a nicer cap hit, but skill wise - Vanek shoots him through the roof.

You are such a homer it's not even funny.
Vanek doesn't amount anywhere near Hall, Kessel and Nash. You could maybe argue Hall, but it's still far off. Voracek has been a plus player twice, and Vanek has only been a plus player 3 times despite playing 3 more seasons than Voracek. Voracek beats Vanek skill wise with exception to their shots, and he plays with a lot more physicality than Vanek. This would be the most arguable comparison, but Vorack > Vanek.

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 12:20 AM
  #164
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Neal definitely has the pedigree. Eberle may not have a full history, but has shown he is already better than Vanek. Voracek is still breaking out, but is arguably better than Vanek now and definitely will be in the future.




Vanek doesn't amount anywhere near Hall, Kessel and Nash. You could maybe argue Hall, but it's still far off. Voracek has been a plus player twice, and Vanek has only been a plus player 3 times despite playing 3 more seasons than Voracek. Voracek beats Vanek skill wise with exception to their shots, and he plays with a lot more physicality than Vanek. This would be the most arguable comparison, but Vorack > Vanek.
Nash is nearly identical to Vanek stat wise. Vanek is better than Kessel and I have argued with stats that Vanek is better in the past. I wont do so again I'll just let u have that one for the sake of laziness.

Relying on plus minus for making a case for Voracek is laughable. Vanek has a better shot and is better at what he does i.e hand-eye front of the net play. He is also likely better in a shootout though that doesnt mean much. To say Voracek is better physically is moot voracek gets like 10 more hits a year and doesnt play the same aforementioned front of the net style as Vanek. At best they are equal that was a dumb thing to bring up no offense.

As purely scorers(which they are) we should compare them A. based on what teams they have played for 08 onward and B. their shooting percentage...it tells a lot more

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 12:33 AM
  #165
CanadienShark
Registered User
 
CanadienShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,574
vCash: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by luki here View Post
source?
Probably a picture of him with one at a party, which does not mean that one smokes regularly.

CanadienShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 12:33 AM
  #166
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Nash is nearly identical to Vanek stat wise. Vanek is better than Kessel and I have argued with stats that Vanek is better in the past. I wont do so again I'll just let u have that one for the sake of laziness.

Relying on plus minus for making a case for Voracek is laughable. Vanek has a better shot and is better at what he does i.e hand-eye front of the net play. He is also likely better in a shootout though that doesnt mean much. To say Voracek is better physically is moot voracek gets like 10 more hits a year and doesnt play the same aforementioned front of the net style as Vanek. At best they are equal that was a dumb thing to bring up no offense.

As purely scorers(which they are) we should compare them A. based on what teams they have played for 08 onward and B. their shooting percentage...it tells a lot more
Your fellow Sabres fan brought up plus/minus, and its actually a very telling stat for forwards. Neither really had the edge. Vanek has a higher career shooting%, but Voracek had a higher shooting% this year. Despite Sabres fan's beliefs, Vanek has actually had a better supporting cast since 2008. At least Vanek had Pominville, while Voracek has only enjoyed 2 years of Giroux. Vanek also entered the NHL after playing 2 years of college and in the AHL for a season, whereas Voracek jumped right from junior to the NHL. I didn't originally factor in age and contract, but if I had, Voracek is the easy choice.

Edit: I also wouldn't define Voracek as a pure scorer. He has much more playmaking ability than Vanek.

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 12:43 AM
  #167
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Your fellow Sabres fan brought up plus/minus, and its actually a very telling stat for forwards. Neither really had the edge. Vanek has a higher career shooting%, but Voracek had a higher shooting% this year. Despite Sabres fan's beliefs, Vanek has actually had a better supporting cast since 2008. At least Vanek had Pominville, while Voracek has only enjoyed 2 years of Giroux. Vanek also entered the NHL after playing 2 years of college and in the AHL for a season, whereas Voracek jumped right from junior to the NHL. I didn't originally factor in age and contract, but if I had, Voracek is the easy choice.

Edit: I also wouldn't define Voracek as a pure scorer. He has much more playmaking ability than Vanek.
I respect your opinions and Voracek is a hellova player. Thats being said I did not bring up plus minus personally. If you do wanna talk about it vanek is a career almost 30 points higher in said category. Though I will admit that is likely due to the fact he is an extraordinary PP guy. For that very reason(among others) I dont find it a telling stat at all.

This year was a half year, Voracek played for a clearly better team everywhere but in net so idk why youd apply it this year...Vanek had a rookie center with him???

2 years of Giroux is far and away better than one of roy and one of hodgson...

and the fact that you are insinuating Voracek was rushed compared to Vanek was convenient yet ultimately a result of coaching not skill.

When Voracek cracks 51 let alone 84 or 73 we can talk. As I said the pedigree is not there. I cant argue contract status or age but the two are still years away from being comparable.

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 12:59 AM
  #168
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
I respect your opinions and Voracek is a hellova player. Thats being said I did not bring up plus minus personally. If you do wanna talk about it vanek is a career almost 30 points higher in said category. Though I will admit that is likely due to the fact he is an extraordinary PP guy. For that very reason(among others) I dont find it a telling stat at all.

This year was a half year, Voracek played for a clearly better team everywhere but in net so idk why youd apply it this year...Vanek had a rookie center with him???

2 years of Giroux is far and away better than one of roy and one of hodgson...

and the fact that you are insinuating Voracek was rushed compared to Vanek was convenient yet ultimately a result of coaching not skill.

When Voracek cracks 51 let alone 84 or 73 we can talk. As I said the pedigree is not there. I cant argue contract status or age but the two are still years away from being comparable.
I was not insisting that Voracek was rushed. I was showing that Vanek entered the NHL much more seasoned than Voracek. Voracek was on pace for 79 points this year, so I assume he would have broken Vanek's 73 point year at least.

All in all, my original arguement was that Vanek is not a top 5 winger in this league. He is a career 68 point per season player.

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:05 AM
  #169
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
I was not insisting that Voracek was rushed. I was showing that Vanek entered the NHL much more seasoned than Voracek. Voracek was on pace for 79 points this year, so I assume he would have broken Vanek's 73 point year at least.

All in all, my original arguement was that Vanek is not a top 5 winger in this league. He is a career 68 point per season player.
what is Voracek a career PPS player? If that's your ultimate argument?

vanek is not a top 5 winger but Voracek is not a Vanek level winger either.

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:07 AM
  #170
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,548
vCash: 500
Hey guys how is your argument going??

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:09 AM
  #171
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Hey guys how is your argument going??
as good as the OP's proposal lol aka turrrrible

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:16 AM
  #172
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
what is Voracek a career PPS player? If that's your ultimate argument?

vanek is not a top 5 winger but Voracek is not a Vanek level winger either.
Voracek is a career 52 points per season player. He also jumped to the NHL at 18 whereas Vanek was 22.

At this point, I'd say the two are very close, and Voracek clearly pulls away in the next few years.

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:21 AM
  #173
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Voracek is a career 52 points per season player. He also jumped to the NHL at 18 whereas Vanek was 22.

At this point, I'd say the two are very close, and Voracek clearly pulls away in the next few years.
well if magic crystal balls held weight with NHL GM's or me you'd be on to something...anyways like I said respectfully we can debate their careers a few years down the line when Voracek has half the resume.

Back to topic how has this thread not been /

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 05:27 AM
  #174
luki here
Registered User
 
luki here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
In 6 years Vanek could only hope to hold Voracek's jock. He'll be looking to do that as soon as next year.
i dont want the nyi to trade for vanek (unless that ridiculous lowball offer of moulson + 1st would do it), but i couldnt disagree with you more. Vanek is an extremely skilled player, who would just so happen to play right to JT strengths (it would also be a dream come true for vanek, as long as he can deal with not having the puck on his tape the whole time).

Vanek > Voracek AINEC.

luki here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 05:29 AM
  #175
luki here
Registered User
 
luki here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
Probably a picture of him with one at a party, which does not mean that one smokes regularly.
i had heard a report that he smoked a cigar at a party. However some islander fans seem to have a inside scope that he actually does smoke?

It's difficult with these type of rumors...how many cigs does he really smoke? if he smokes 5 a week i highly doubt it has any impact on his physique. If he smokes 10 a day thats a different story.

luki here is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.