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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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07-17-2013, 09:01 PM
  #901
Glacial
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Govts' are out of control kihekah. Better you should move to Idaho & dig-in. Join a group, make plans to take over a natural forest preserve for when civilization as we now know it collapses. Preferably one attached to a wildlife conservation area, your own private grocery store for when the **** hits the fan. Start stocking up. Canned cheddar, Ramen Noodles, Rice & Beans. When you go to McDonalds? Order small fries and grab as many of those handy little ketchup packets as you can. Invest in solar panels & go completely off-grid. Build a koi pond and grow catfish instead, real tasty smoked...
You left off spam and canned tuna & powdered milk. Or was those last two only when the color coded terror alert system went to red or plaid?

Is that guy up there who ran for senate or governor there or in Montana who fearing mass chaos in Y2K drank some kind of silver solution that permanently turned his skin a bluish gray color?

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07-17-2013, 09:04 PM
  #902
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The difference between other governments (Cities, states, provinces) subsidizing a pro sports franchise and Glendale is that Glendale is broke. No wait, they are deeper than broke, they are 6' below their heads broke.

Now, if they weren't talking about cutting civil services, then sure, go for it, spend spend spend. BUT they are, the lack of concern on that front really concerns me, it goes to show how little the people there care for their well being.

What's next? A hospital or two close down to make the payments? Yikes.
Nah they will just foreclose on City Hall... but hey if it is worth it to 11-12,000 die hards to watch some millionaires bat a rubber disc around frozen water... take the hospitals too...

Speaking as an Oiler fan... if the choice was between city services and my hockey team... I am remembering fondly my days watching the club... and taking solace in the FD being able to get to me before I burn to death... no competition no question

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07-17-2013, 09:46 PM
  #903
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... Montana who fearing mass chaos from Y2K drank some kind of silver solution that permanently turned his skin a bluish gray color?
Stan Jones of Bozeman. Yepp. Odd bluish-grey colour. Under fluorescent tubes shines like one of those cheesy early 70's black light posters. Very strange creature. Pretty sure he's related to the cellar dweller's from Silent Hill.

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07-17-2013, 10:46 PM
  #904
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Simple! It is my belief that government, local, State or federal is not empowered to make the kinds of decisions the COG have made on behalf of their citizenry. Government was not created to be an arbitrator or bidder of the taxpayers dollars. In this particular instance, like the present Federal government, they are overstepping their constitutional rights with $$ that is the peoples. Sure, you could make the argument that the people voted these incompetents into office, however, a look at the % of Glendale citizens who actually voted, it points to low representation and low information voters. I do not believe , if given the facts, that many people would support the ongoing boneheaded decisions that have been made by this group.

I believe in limited government, and this is the antithesis of such. Glendale has mismanaged its business in such a way as to be likely irreversible, the consequences are dire. How, does a well informed citizenship vote to squash Police and Fire budgets in favor of supporting out of state entrepreneurs? They have purchased homes in my city, not Glendale, and from the looks of things have no intention of staying beyond five years. Count me as one of the skeptical, I do not believe the city made the right choice when voting to approve the AMF and its other features designed to rob the city of its assets.
Governments have taxing and spending authority. Citizens have the right to vote out whoever they disagree with. Some states, Arizona included, give citizens the right to overturn actions by their legislature via referendum. So at this point its up to the citizens of Glendale to sign the petitions. I really wish I knew PKP. Give me a month and I could organize the drive to get enough signatures.

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07-18-2013, 12:03 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
You left off spam and canned tuna & powdered milk. Or was those last two only when the color coded terror alert system went to red or plaid?

Is that guy up there who ran for senate or governor there or in Montana who fearing mass chaos in Y2K drank some kind of silver solution that permanently turned his skin a bluish gray color?
You mean, this guy, Paul Karason...



Last edited by Llama19: 07-18-2013 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Added name
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07-18-2013, 12:06 AM
  #906
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I'm hearing that there will be no official Olympic or 2013-14 schedule announcement today. Maybe tomorrow?

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07-18-2013, 12:18 AM
  #907
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EJ Hradek @EJHradek_NHL
Are you thinking there could be some connection or relevance to the
Coyotes sale & closing in delaying the release of the Schedule Fugu?

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07-18-2013, 12:24 AM
  #908
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Are you thinking there could be some connection or relevance to the
Coyotes sale & closing in delaying the release of the Schedule Fugu?

Moi?


(I am suspicious. What other reason(s) could there be to delay the release of the schedule?)

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07-18-2013, 12:31 AM
  #909
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Moi?

(I am suspicious. What other reason(s) could there be to delay the release of the schedule?)
Combined with their increasing their LOC substantially?... Im sure the Schedule will be released in due course, the extra $200M likely just for updates to the executive offices in Toronto & New York n' whatnot. Entirely coincidental.

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07-18-2013, 12:40 AM
  #910
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Olympic deal not done yet?

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07-18-2013, 12:52 AM
  #911
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Olympic deal not done yet?

Hmmm. Do you think it's possible the Olympics wouldn't go off at this point?

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07-18-2013, 01:02 AM
  #912
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Hmmm. Do you think it's possible the Olympics wouldn't go off at this point?
Well, in an article posted in the Chicago Tribune on-line 1hr ago, Bill Daly emailed the reporter telling him he expected theyd get it all resolved by tomorrow or Friday, and that the NHL would in fact be participating. I also heard on the radio today, David Pratt of CKNW Vancouver, that he'd heard a deal had been struck however, wasnt exactly 110% positive about it. So either its the Olympic's holding it up or the Coyotes closing, and I have hard time believing its the latter. RSE has until August 4th to close, so unless its completely imploded, cant imagine thats the hangup in releasing the schedule. Besides, where are they going to go? Portland? QC? End of July?. Surely the Yotes at this late date would just stay & play out of Glendale under continued league ownership no?... I cant take it anymore.

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07-18-2013, 02:34 AM
  #913
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Because Ellman held the financials pretty close to his vest and Scottsdale didn't like the optics. One member of Council specifically stating that they (the council member) wasn't too keen on a 2013 selling date (Ellman).
I was aware of that part, M4B.

But I wanted Mesa's take on it since he's a resident there (still part time??) and has long advocated the arena should have been built there (not against that, btw). Especially in light that the citizens wanted the project built via two separate votes, and the subject has been city governments and just what they should and shouldn't be doing regarding sports teams.

upon a little Googling... I did find this....

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/new...a2cefbb28.html

The article states Ellman sensed a shift in their city council towards not giving him the tax incentives he wanted and pulled the project. So I'm wondering what was the true timeline of events??


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07-18-2013, 02:39 AM
  #914
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http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/pages/...ticle=11478907

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Right now, I’m sure Seattle’s hockey and basketball fans are feeling a little bit used, but don’t worry. Jaynes explained, “I still don’t see it working [Phoenix’s new lease agreement]. I don’t see anything that’s really going to change the way things were in Arizona and I think there’s probably an out clause in that lease somewhere a year or two down the road. I think we’re going to see this come up again.”
Jaynes is a reporter with CSN Northwest, wouldn't have any actual information as he seems as lazy as every other reporter involved this summer.

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07-18-2013, 09:16 AM
  #915
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http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/pages/...ticle=11478907



Jaynes is a reporter with CSN Northwest, wouldn't have any actual information as he seems as lazy as every other reporter involved this summer.
Well he's also clearly stating an opinion rather that any sort of fact.

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07-18-2013, 09:48 AM
  #916
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Well, in an article posted in the Chicago Tribune on-line 1hr ago, Bill Daly emailed the reporter telling him he expected theyd get it all resolved by tomorrow or Friday, and that the NHL would in fact be participating. I also heard on the radio today, David Pratt of CKNW Vancouver, that he'd heard a deal had been struck however, wasnt exactly 110% positive about it. So either its the Olympic's holding it up or the Coyotes closing, and I have hard time believing its the latter. RSE has until August 4th to close, so unless its completely imploded, cant imagine thats the hangup in releasing the schedule. Besides, where are they going to go? Portland? QC? End of July?. Surely the Yotes at this late date would just stay & play out of Glendale under continued league ownership no?... I cant take it anymore.
Jimmy James stated it best, we'll all be here...


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07-18-2013, 10:22 AM
  #917
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What's next? A hospital or two close down to make the payments? Yikes.
People seem to mistakenly believe this type of governance is limited to Glendale. It wouldn't be the first hospital to be impacted by arena/stadium debt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1347733.html

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07-18-2013, 10:43 AM
  #918
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People seem to mistakenly believe this type of governance is limited to Glendale. It wouldn't be the first hospital to be impacted by arena/stadium debt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1347733.html
Thank you for the perspective.

Going to do some more research around to see what other cities have been impacted in this manner, I suspect that I might find a decent number of similar scenarios.

Might have an interesting affect on how I view things (and not just the Yotes saga)

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07-18-2013, 10:45 AM
  #919
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I was aware of that part, M4B.

But I wanted Mesa's take on it since he's a resident there (still part time??) and has long advocated the arena should have been built there (not against that, btw). Especially in light that the citizens wanted the project built via two separate votes, and the subject has been city governments and just what they should and shouldn't be doing regarding sports teams.

upon a little Googling... I did find this....

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/new...a2cefbb28.html

The article states Ellman sensed a shift in their city council towards not giving him the tax incentives he wanted and pulled the project. So I'm wondering what was the true timeline of events??
Absolutely. Let's afford Mesa the opportunity to respond. In the meantime, I'll just fill the pause with some prophetic quotes...

April 3, 2002

"It's great to be in hockey country," said Gary Bettman, commissioner of the National Hockey League. "There is really no place else we'd rather be. Arizona is a great state for sports."

Ellman basked in the spotlight's glow, and chided critics who questioned whether an $800 million commercial center built around a $180 million publicly funded hockey arena will succeed at Glendale Avenue and Loop 101.

"Ten years from today, I expect people will be saying, 'Why did they build an arena in the middle of a city?' " Ellman said.

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/Phoe...s/articles.htm

^ Psssst! It's a nice little timeline in case you can't wait for Mesa's reply

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07-18-2013, 10:46 AM
  #920
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I would submit the reasons for purchasing homes in Scottsdale is due to legacy. Most of the players an staff have homes there. There original practice facility (Alltel Ice Den) is in Scottsdale. It would make more sense (from a logistical standpoint) for an owner to reside near that, than live remotely on the other side of town. To me that has more impact than giving posters another reason to slam Glendale.

Since you have been adamant on several occasions that the location of the arena should have been somewhere in the east... as in Scottsdale, I'm curious as to your opinion as to why Scottsdale's city council went against Ellman's Los Arcos project when it appeared that the citizens of Scottsdale reportedly voted twice to approve the tax incentives needed to build it.??

I never followed the saga over there to great detail, but on the surface it looks like we had a city government act 180 degrees against the will of its constituents here??
Really can`t tell you why the Scottsdale Council voted down the Los Arcos arena! Perhaps they knew something about Ellman and/or hockey in the desert that was not conducive to a positive financial outcome for the city. May also have had something to do with not wanting to bring that type of business into Scottsdale. In retrospect, the decision, right or wrong, has not lead the city to the brink of BK. The city of Glendale and their boneheaded administrators, mayor and Council have made one poor decision after another, leaving the city and its taxpayers in a bad spot. I submit that had the Council elected to not subsidize this hockey team and allowed them to leave that the city would be in a far better place than they are today and where they may be 5 years from now.

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07-18-2013, 10:47 AM
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
People seem to mistakenly believe this type of governance is limited to Glendale. It wouldn't be the first hospital to be impacted by arena/stadium debt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1347733.html
So basically Glendale is turning into Cincinnati.

Does anyone know Glendale's cost-to-budget ratio for the Coyotes? Cincy had 16.4% in 2010.
article - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...349497852.html
image - http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0711190911.jpg

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07-18-2013, 11:37 AM
  #922
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People seem to mistakenly believe this type of governance is limited to Glendale. It wouldn't be the first hospital to be impacted by arena/stadium debt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1347733.html
Or that Glendale somehow has the highest municipal debt burden in the nation. It's not like they're about to declare bankruptcy like Detroit.

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07-18-2013, 11:40 AM
  #923
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So basically Glendale is turning into Cincinnati.

Does anyone know Glendale's cost-to-budget ratio for the Coyotes? Cincy had 16.4% in 2010.
article - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...349497852.html
image - http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0711190911.jpg
I believe Glendale's total budget is somewhere around $450 million and their operating budget is somewhere around $170 million (inclusive of the recent sales tax increase).

You can check under the finance section of glendaleaz.com (I try to avoid going there anymore - I'm on a 12 step program).

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07-18-2013, 11:51 AM
  #924
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People seem to mistakenly believe this type of governance is limited to Glendale. It wouldn't be the first hospital to be impacted by arena/stadium debt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1347733.html
Absolutely not. The fiscal irresponsibility is unfathomable from a third party perspective.

The fact that these people have convinced themselves that their City will go to ***** without the team so they must, at any cost, keep the team is unreal.

I understand wanting to keep a sports franchise, no one wants to lose one.

I wonder if any of them have ever took a step back and truly said "I wonder why no one wants to buy this team with only their money", the thirst for keeping this team has clouded their judgement, we saw it with Joyce, we see it with Sherwood.

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07-18-2013, 11:54 AM
  #925
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Moi?


(I am suspicious. What other reason(s) could there be to delay the release of the schedule?)
Perhaps this following bit plays into it... perhaps not. (Also, see March 11th and 20th)



http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...olympic-break/

Thinking the delay is finalizing an almost 3 week break for the Olympics

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