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Old
07-17-2013, 11:47 PM
  #101
Pinkfloyd
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What would Jets' fans put on the table for a player like Joe Pavelski?

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07-17-2013, 11:55 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
What would Jets' fans put on the table for a player like Joe Pavelski?
Likely a lowball offer to get a counter offer from the Sharks.

Pavelski is a UFA in 11 months, so it's going to be viewed as a rental.

I'm not sure the Jets would be ready to pay for a rental player of Pavelski's ilk. If someone really was loading up for a run at the cup, they probably have a pretty good roster to begin with, I could see him traded for to a team like that for a young struggling roster player with top 6 upside and a 2nd round pick (or 1st round pick if the GM is really confident they'll finishing with a 25+ first round pick).

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07-18-2013, 12:07 AM
  #103
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Likely a lowball offer to get a counter offer from the Sharks.

Pavelski is a UFA in 11 months, so it's going to be viewed as a rental.

I'm not sure the Jets would be ready to pay for a rental player of Pavelski's ilk. If someone really was loading up for a run at the cup, they probably have a pretty good roster to begin with, I could see him traded for to a team like that for a young struggling roster player with top 6 upside and a 2nd round pick (or 1st round pick if the GM is really confident they'll finishing with a 25+ first round pick).
There are plenty of good pieces to build a trade around with Winnipeg for Pavelski. Burns on one year got a decent top six winger, what that team considered a blue chipper, and a late 1st round pick. Pavelski could probably garner something similar.

Sharks would probably want someone who can play for them now and some future assets. Or they could add to him and get an impact player. All depends on what's available and what they're looking for. I'm sure many teams inquire about guys like Ladd, Wheeler, Bogosian, Enstrom, and Little. Most probably don't go anywhere but you never know. lol

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07-18-2013, 12:22 AM
  #104
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Not too sure we're interested in paying the price for Pavelski. To be honest Jets fans are shocked Chevy parted with a 2nd 3rd and a 5th for Setoguchi and Frolik. He's probably blown 2-3 years worth of moving draft picks for players. Once we sign our RFAs our roster is pretty much full. We have 9 signed 1-way waiver eligible forwards, Scheifele (waiver exempt ELC), 2 unsigned RFAs (Wheeler and Little) first liners, plus Peluso and O'Dell who are both subject to waivers. That's 13 players subject to waivers plus Scheifele. May not be the prettiest roster, but it's our roster.

Our pool isn't deep enough yet to move prospects for older players. We're still pretty thin in areas.

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07-18-2013, 02:37 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
There are plenty of good pieces to build a trade around with Winnipeg for Pavelski. Burns on one year got a decent top six winger, what that team considered a blue chipper, and a late 1st round pick. Pavelski could probably garner something similar.

Sharks would probably want someone who can play for them now and some future assets. Or they could add to him and get an impact player. All depends on what's available and what they're looking for. I'm sure many teams inquire about guys like Ladd, Wheeler, Bogosian, Enstrom, and Little. Most probably don't go anywhere but you never know. lol
Seto + the rights to Burmi + our 1st for Burns

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07-18-2013, 09:01 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
What would Jets' fans put on the table for a player like Joe Pavelski?
As a rental I'm not sure... not sure what his contract is even like now or what he'd want in the future.

We'd probably have to give up someone on defense who's a roster player, a prospect like Adam Lowry maybe (he's one of our higher ranked prospects but not quite on the Scheifele/Trouba level of value) and maybe a pick?

It's kind of moot at this point because like said above, we're not a contender looking for the last piece so getting him as a rental isn't really worth it at this point until we know what we all have and are making a Cup push.

I guess it would all depend if SJ was trying to sell Pavelski or if the Jets were trying to buy Pavelski. If SJ wants to keep him, we have to overpay, but if they want to sell him, then maybe not so much.


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Old
07-18-2013, 09:33 AM
  #107
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A guy like Bogosian is valued much more highly in NHL circles than in the vacuum that is HF Boards. If he traded he would command a pretty penny. Sure, it's more about perception and upside-but the reality is he has all of the tools and has shown enough in his brief career to suggest he'll be a stud. This year will be huge for him.

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07-18-2013, 10:31 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by WordUp View Post
As a rental I'm not sure... not sure what his contract is even like now or what he'd want in the future.

We'd probably have to give up someone on defense who's a roster player, a prospect like Adam Lowry maybe (he's one of our higher ranked prospects but not quite on the Scheifele/Trouba level of value) and maybe a pick?

It's kind of moot at this point because like said above, we're not a contender looking for the last piece so getting him as a rental isn't really worth it at this point until we know what we all have and are making a Cup push.

I guess it would all depend if SJ was trying to sell Pavelski or if the Jets were trying to buy Pavelski. If SJ wants to keep him, we have to overpay, but if they want to sell him, then maybe not so much.
He may have only one year at four million left on his contract but he's probably not going to be a difficult guy to re-sign. Contract talks may stall with San Jose because right now he's a guy that is scheduled to play 3rd line center at even strength, one of the points on the first power play unit, and first unit PK. So either he may not be too keen on the 3rd line center part or DW isn't too keen on investing somewhere near 6 million for a guy like that even though he'll get minutes and plays on top special teams units. I would think Winnipeg would slot him in at the 2nd line center and still give him top unit time on both ends of the special teams.

I'm sure if they got Little, Lowry, and a 2nd it would intrigue some people for Pavelski.

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07-18-2013, 10:41 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
He may have only one year at four million left on his contract but he's probably not going to be a difficult guy to re-sign. Contract talks may stall with San Jose because right now he's a guy that is scheduled to play 3rd line center at even strength, one of the points on the first power play unit, and first unit PK. So either he may not be too keen on the 3rd line center part or DW isn't too keen on investing somewhere near 6 million for a guy like that even though he'll get minutes and plays on top special teams units. I would think Winnipeg would slot him in at the 2nd line center and still give him top unit time on both ends of the special teams.

I'm sure if they got Little, Lowry, and a 2nd it would intrigue some people for Pavelski.
I figured that part of the reasoning is the logjam that you guys have. Your proposal is interesting because eventually, Scheifele is going to be in the mix for a top 6 center role so adding Pavelski but not getting rid of Little would create the same problem for us. The only thing about this is that our LLW line has great chemistry and I'm not sure if the risk to see if Pavelski can work well with Ladd and Wheeler is worth giving up prospects. It's a decent offer though, in my opinion, especially if Pavelski does re-sign for $5ish (?) million/year.

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07-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I'm sure if they got Little, Lowry, and a 2nd it would intrigue some people for Pavelski.
No chance the Jets are trading Lowry right now; they just signed him to his entry level deal. The Jets are weak down the middle. No way do they trade a 25 y/o centre and a 20 y/o centre in exchange for a 29 y/o.

Little outscored Pavelski last year. Unsure of why you think the Jets would need to add the reigning WHL Player of the Year (Lowry) in such a trade.

Pass.

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07-18-2013, 11:00 AM
  #111
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No chance the Jets are trading Lowry right now; they just signed him to his entry level deal. The Jets are weak down the middle. No way do they trade a 25 y/o centre and a 20 y/o centre in exchange for a 29 y/o.

Little outscored Pavelski last year. Unsure of why you think the Jets would need to add the reigning WHL Player of the Year (Lowry) in such a trade.

Pass.
Hey, I added Lowry to the conversation. But I said it depends on the situation. Are the Jets trying to acquire him or are the Sharks trying to drop him. It all depends on that. That's why a lot of these trade proposals are so off in my opinion, people always just go for a neutral hockey trade when a lot of the time, that's not why guys are shipped out.

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07-18-2013, 11:08 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
No chance the Jets are trading Lowry right now; they just signed him to his entry level deal. The Jets are weak down the middle. No way do they trade a 25 y/o centre and a 20 y/o centre in exchange for a 29 y/o.

Little outscored Pavelski last year. Unsure of why you think the Jets would need to add the reigning WHL Player of the Year (Lowry) in such a trade.

Pass.
He outscored Pavelski by a whole point while Pavs was scoring twice the amount of goals and being miles better defensively. And last year was 46 points for Little and 61 for Pavelski while again scoring more goals and being better defensively. I understand being hesitant to part with your guys but don't be quick to dismiss without much behind it.

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07-18-2013, 11:12 AM
  #113
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Hey, I added Lowry to the conversation. But I said it depends on the situation. Are the Jets trying to acquire him or are the Sharks trying to drop him. It all depends on that. That's why a lot of these trade proposals are so off in my opinion, people always just go for a neutral hockey trade when a lot of the time, that's not why guys are shipped out.
The situation is that the Jets are weak at centre and no way would they ship out Little + for an older guy with similar recent production, let alone add a 20 y/o centre that they just signed to an entry level deal. I doubt that is the sort of deal the Jets would seek which is why I question your inference that they should overpay at that.

I get that you have to pay in order to get what you want; I'm questioning if this is the guy they'd want at that cost. Hope that helps.

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07-18-2013, 11:14 AM
  #114
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Are you working on the assumption that Little is bad defensively? Cause with Burmi gone now,Little is probably the Jets best defensive forward. I like Pavelski and would certainly take him, but he's not that much of an improvement on Little. Certainly not enough to justify giving up Lowry.

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07-18-2013, 11:16 AM
  #115
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Are you working on the assumption that Little is bad defensively? Cause with Burmi gone now,Little is probably the Jets best defensive forward. I like Pavelski and would certainly take him, but he's not that much of an improvement on Little. Certainly not enough to justify giving up Lowry.
^*this guy gets it*^

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07-18-2013, 11:17 AM
  #116
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Are you working on the assumption that Little is bad defensively? Cause with Burmi gone now,Little is probably the Jets best defensive forward. I like Pavelski and would certainly take him, but he's not that much of an improvement on Little. Certainly not enough to justify giving up Lowry.
No, I'm working on the premise that Pavelski is much better than him defensively. Little isn't bad defensively at all but Pavelski is better and is a guy that ought to be talked about among the Selke conversation more than he is but doesn't because he's in San Jose so it's not noticed as much.

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07-18-2013, 11:21 AM
  #117
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The situation is that the Jets are weak at centre and no way would they ship out Little + for an older guy with similar recent production, let alone add a 20 y/o centre that they just signed to an entry level deal. I doubt that is the sort of deal the Jets would seek which is why I question your inference that they should overpay at that.

I get that you have to pay in order to get what you want; I'm questioning if this is the guy they'd want at that cost. Hope that helps.
Lowry is a winger.

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07-18-2013, 11:24 AM
  #118
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No, I'm working on the premise that Pavelski is much better than him defensively. Little isn't bad defensively at all but Pavelski is better and is a guy that ought to be talked about among the Selke conversation more than he is but doesn't because he's in San Jose so it's not noticed as much.
Pavelski is also on the downside of his prime while Little is just approaching his. At best this deal would be a straight up swap if the Jets liked Pavelski more; not sure why they would though. They aren't looking to get older. They'd be taking on salary risk as well; Little is still RFA. Why give up additional contractual control over Little for one year of Pavelski who will cost more in the future - IF you even are even able to extend him that is?

I get that San Jose needs cap help; guess what, that comes at a cost as well. No way would the Jets be adding anything under this scenario.

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07-18-2013, 11:26 AM
  #119
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I'm starting to believe that the majority of people posting in Jets related trade threads have never seen the Jets play.

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07-18-2013, 11:27 AM
  #120
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Lowry is a winger.
Lowry was WHL Player of the Year last year while playing primarily as a center FYI, like 97% of the year. He blossomed at centre in fact and they are using him there now, but he can also play wing.

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07-18-2013, 11:28 AM
  #121
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i want this guy on the Avs...I don't suppose the name erik johnson excites jets fans enough to get the talks started?

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07-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #122
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Pavelski is also on the downside of his prime while Little is just approaching his. At best this deal would be a straight up swap if the Jets liked Pavelski more; not sure why they would though. They aren't looking to get older. They'd be taking on salary risk as well; Little is still RFA. Why give up additional contractual control over Little for one year of Pavelski who will cost more in the future - IF you even are even able to extend him that is?

I get that San Jose needs cap help; guess what, that comes at a cost as well. No way would the Jets be adding anything under this scenario.
I guess I see your point here but I think Pavelski is better offensively than Little is. But defensively, I think they are close. I agree that in terms of base value, they are close to each other but I also agree with Pinkfloyd in that Pavelski's minutes are way less and he's been put in a more defensive role. I think the Jets would have to add a bit with Little to acquire Pavelski.

But again, I agree with the Jets not actually wanting to seek out Pavelski. I mentioned that in my first post that we have no reason to break up our LLW chemistry and then to not give Scheifele a shot at 2C. Just rambling here in sake of conversation

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i want this guy on the Avs...I don't suppose the name erik johnson excites jets fans enough to get the talks started?
I personally wouldn't give up the guy who could potentially be our #1-2 defenseman for a guy who's generally seen as not living up to expectations.

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07-18-2013, 11:46 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Pavelski is also on the downside of his prime while Little is just approaching his. At best this deal would be a straight up swap if the Jets liked Pavelski more; not sure why they would though. They aren't looking to get older. They'd be taking on salary risk as well; Little is still RFA. Why give up additional contractual control over Little for one year of Pavelski who will cost more in the future - IF you even are even able to extend him that is?

I get that San Jose needs cap help; guess what, that comes at a cost as well. No way would the Jets be adding anything under this scenario.
You're not sure why they would? Pavelski is better on both sides of the puck. Little is good, don't get me wrong and he may get better (although at 25 that is no guarantee) but Pavelski is better. He's versatile enough to play center and wing and do it with pretty much anyone you want. Play the point on the power play and kill penalties among the many other things he does.

And you can cut out the 'needs cap help'. That is completely and utterly false. And remember, this is just starting point stuff. It doesn't mean that things can't be changed around like Sharks adding or something else depending on the deal.

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07-18-2013, 11:48 AM
  #124
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You're not sure why they would? Pavelski is better on both sides of the puck. Little is good, don't get me wrong and he may get better (although at 25 that is no guarantee) but Pavelski is better. He's versatile enough to play center and wing and do it with pretty much anyone you want. Play the point on the power play and kill penalties among the many other things he does.

And you can cut out the 'needs cap help'. That is completely and utterly false.
Little also can play the wing quite proficiently and do well on the PK/PP. Why not take the younger guy that we can lock up long term.

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07-18-2013, 11:54 AM
  #125
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You're not sure why they would? Pavelski is better on both sides of the puck. Little is good, don't get me wrong and he may get better (although at 25 that is no guarantee) but Pavelski is better. He's versatile enough to play center and wing and do it with pretty much anyone you want. Play the point on the power play and kill penalties among the many other things he does.
He is older and put up similar production to Little. Also not at all sure why a team building a young core group like the Jets would look to add a guy that will be 32 or older by the time the Jets are truly competitive.

Quote:
And you can cut out the 'needs cap help'. That is completely and utterly false.
http://capgeek.com/

Scroll down to compare the Jets available space to the Sharks negative available space. The Jets don't need to trade Little at all, let alone have a need to add something as you initially suggested, while the Sharks comparatively have zero cap space available.

To summarize, the Jets don't need to help the Sharks with their lack of cap space. The Jets also don't need to get older to trade for a player with similar production to the one you suggest they trade. The Jets additionally have contractual control over Little because he is still RFA; they'd have none over Pavelski - a pending UFA at season end that will cost more over the long haul. Thanks anyway though. No interest here.

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