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Am I wrong or right (player attitude)?

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Old
07-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #51
KareyPrice
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I'm the leading goal scorer in my summer league, and of course leading goal scorer on my team and I wasn't out in the last minute of a game we were losing by 1 goal. Did we lose yes, was I pissed at the time yes, but I moved on.

2 weeks later we were down 6-4 with 6 minutes left in the third and I scored 3 goals in the last 6 minutes including the game winner with 0.5 seconds or so left to win it.

So things happen, but by your story sounds like the guy was being selfish, especially in the playoffs .

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07-13-2013, 08:09 AM
  #52
Guffaw
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It's not the lowest form of hockey if your past a certain age. For most of us that's past 24 ish unless you play pro then it's 35 ish but that's such a small minority.

Playing just for fun is called shinny or open hockey. If you have jerseys, refs, score keepers that's a game like any other at any level and guys play to win albeit having fun at the same time.

I look at it like this. Team fees are for reg season. Playoffs are a bonus. Your best players should be on the ice at critical moments especially in the playoffs. This works out great because your lesser skilled selfish players will take issue with this and stop showing up and not play the following season. Perfect :-). I know this from running teams.

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07-13-2013, 09:46 AM
  #53
Wilch
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Players like this will find themselves on a different team or playing shinny next season.

Usually the organizers and captains I know probably won't put up with this kind of ****.

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07-19-2013, 01:32 AM
  #54
madguitarist
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That's a pretty selfish thing to do. I'd be seriously considering buying him out, or not inviting him back next season. It's not all about you when you play a team sport, as much as some people seem to think it is. If it was pick-up, then I could totally see his point, but any time you're playing in a league, it's about winning just as much as fun. If you don't win in the playoffs, then you don't get to play more. By trying to get an extra bit of ice like that, you can end up cheating yourself and the rest of the team out of extra ice time in the form of another playoff game.

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07-19-2013, 02:54 AM
  #55
BmxHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kr580 View Post
If it's beer league it's not cool to cheat someone out of their shift, IMO. I don't get everyone's excitement about playoffs. You're playing the lowest form of ice hockey available to you. Have fun, don't get all serious about something that doesn't even matter. You might get what, one, two games more if you win? Everyone pays the same, they should get equal chance to be out there no matter the situation. What happens when the stacked line doesn't do a thing? You still lost and now you have people on the bench not too happy. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

If they're up for sitting to help out the team, go for it, but not if they have a problem with it.

Then again I don't have that 'drive' that most guys have. I'm out there for exercise, not winning or losing, so I don't really care either way personally.
You're wrong. Winning is everything and it doesn't matter what level. It feels good to win. It's better than losing. Playoff time several minutes left down one goal-take the benders off...

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07-19-2013, 06:21 AM
  #56
JxStaalx11
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dont have the whole story here. not sure if its Beer, house or tier 3 level. anything above that you play to win and need to understand that. i get his point of view because ive played on teams in tier 3 where kids got sat in the last 2 mins and didn't see a shift being tied or down by one and parents would freak out. but its also like hes not the other goalie either where if its his turn to play and he gets sat for the other goalie where the original starter is missing a whole game. need the whole story so its 50-50 for me

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07-19-2013, 08:40 AM
  #57
tijuana knuckles
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It cracks me up the people who say " I am just playing for exercise.". What a cop-out. The just go play drop-in or over 40. If you play in a league that = competition. It is not fair to your teammates if you are not trying to win. It is not fair to your teammates if you do not have the drive to compete. You pay the $$ for the right to be part of a team, and all that comes with being part of a team with a common goal, it should be fun and equal ice is fine but don't give me the lame cop-out " I'm just playing to get exercise because if exercise were what you were looking for there are many cheaper and quicker ways to get exercise.

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07-19-2013, 09:47 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijuana knuckles View Post
It cracks me up the people who say " I am just playing for exercise.". What a cop-out. The just go play drop-in or over 40. If you play in a league that = competition. It is not fair to your teammates if you are not trying to win. It is not fair to your teammates if you do not have the drive to compete. You pay the $$ for the right to be part of a team, and all that comes with being part of a team with a common goal, it should be fun and equal ice is fine but don't give me the lame cop-out " I'm just playing to get exercise because if exercise were what you were looking for there are many cheaper and quicker ways to get exercise.

Man, relax. There is a difference between being able to get off the ice after losing a recreational hockey league game and not be bothered about it and "not trying to win." I don't think anyone goes out there not trying to win, but personally, I'm not going to be bothered about winning or not winning once I hit the dressing room.

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07-19-2013, 11:11 AM
  #59
Splitbtw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijuana knuckles View Post
It cracks me up the people who say " I am just playing for exercise.". What a cop-out. The just go play drop-in or over 40. If you play in a league that = competition. It is not fair to your teammates if you are not trying to win. It is not fair to your teammates if you do not have the drive to compete. You pay the $$ for the right to be part of a team, and all that comes with being part of a team with a common goal, it should be fun and equal ice is fine but don't give me the lame cop-out " I'm just playing to get exercise because if exercise were what you were looking for there are many cheaper and quicker ways to get exercise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDugan View Post
Man, relax. There is a difference between being able to get off the ice after losing a recreational hockey league game and not be bothered about it and "not trying to win." I don't think anyone goes out there not trying to win, but personally, I'm not going to be bothered about winning or not winning once I hit the dressing room.
I'd much rather be on a team with a good group of guys that all want to win the game. There is a balance, but the lackadaisical attitude or exercise or "I'm just playing for fun" are all cop-outs to being accountable to the greater goal. I'm not saying people go out like it's game 7, but I want teammates that are good sports AND competitive.

If you don't want competition, go play pick-up. That said, there is also a difference between a competitive bad sport and a competitive good sport. Fill your team with the latter, and you're going to have a good time.

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07-19-2013, 11:24 AM
  #60
CornKicker
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from my experience in beer leagues it is always best to talk about a what if situation before the game even happens, that way everyone knows what is going to happen and who will be out and they can all express their concerns.

as for the op the story isnt all there imo, but i see it from both points. I am all aboutwinning so if someona asks me to come off im all about it, but i do get why someone would be mad when it is sprung on them in the heat of the moment by someone they dont like.

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07-19-2013, 11:26 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDugan View Post
Man, relax. There is a difference between being able to get off the ice after losing a recreational hockey league game and not be bothered about it and "not trying to win." I don't think anyone goes out there not trying to win, but personally, I'm not going to be bothered about winning or not winning once I hit the dressing room.
i hope we never play on the same team, and our team has had issues with people being selfish and not team players. they dont play with us anymore.

no one is saying block shots with your face but playing and not caring if you win or lose is cop out excuse

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07-19-2013, 11:27 AM
  #62
CornKicker
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Originally Posted by BmxHockey View Post
You're wrong. Winning is everything and it doesn't matter what level. It feels good to win. It's better than losing. Playoff time several minutes left down one goal-take the benders off...
you can be on my team any day of the week good sir.

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07-19-2013, 11:52 AM
  #63
McDugan
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
i hope we never play on the same team
I hope so too?

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Old
07-19-2013, 12:17 PM
  #64
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Re: Letting wins and losses determine whether you're having fun or not. I see it this way;

I'm 30 years old. I'm a grown ass man. I had my share of glory between say 10-25. I wasn't good enough to play on TV, and I've come to terms with that. So now I play for fun because I enjoy hockey. Win or lose I really just care about playing. So that's my thought when some guy wants to take an extra shift, or extend one. Am I the better option? Probably. But he paid as much as much as, or more than, me, so screw it.

Guys I've come across as adults who try too hard, as offensive as this is to say, are guys that just never had it. So now that the pack has come back to them a bit, or the guys their age that were good are off playing in college or juniors, they go 110% to feel better about themselves.

Back to the original topic, the guy is obviously wrong, but maybe the captain needs to sit down with him and see if it's a bigger problem. Is he being short shifted over and over again in low pressure situations also? Thus leaving him mad that he's definitely not out there in a high pressure one?

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07-19-2013, 12:18 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
i hope we never play on the same team, and our team has had issues with people being selfish and not team players. they dont play with us anymore.

no one is saying block shots with your face but playing and not caring if you win or lose is cop out excuse
I'm with you overall. Either show up to play and win or go play pickup. The rest of the guys would likely be happy to pay up to cover your costs to kick you off the team than have to deal with a lax attitude that can be of detriment to the team.

I play in the higher divisions available here, and there's pretty much nobody involved within them that are just along for the ride and "out for exercise" only. In the lower divisions, sure, and that's somewhat expected IMO. I can see it both ways, really.

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07-19-2013, 02:52 PM
  #66
CunniJA
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To address the original question, it seems the guy is in the wrong. On our team, it's always equal ice time, no designated PP or PK lines, etc. But, in the playoffs in crunch time, we stack the lines. Logically, getting shafted one shift doesn't matter a whole lot if you're making up for it by earning a full extra game in the playoffs.

Granted, I am speaking as a guy who is on during those times. However, I never presume to take time away from somebody until they explicitly say that it's cool.

Somebody mentioned subs that show up and play their 3 minute shifts and crap. That also really irks me too, even when they are some of the better players on the team. Show up for all the games and play full shifts. Don't show up for half the games and double shift every time.

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07-19-2013, 03:17 PM
  #67
nycpunk1
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Are you the best player on a team of novices? Being part of the team means backing off, helping others improve, and storing your ego at the bottom of your gear bag.

Are you a shaky player on a team in a competitive league? Being part of the team means giving up your minutes in key moments of big games.

No matter what, if you aren't looking out for the other guy's minutes in a low-level beer league, don't come around selling "for the team!" BS. Sorry, not buying it. Likewise, don't pull some "I paid just as much..." crap if you're too out of shape to give 100% through your minutes.

Asking someone to sit a shift in hopes that you can gain everyone another playoff game is reasonable. On the other hand, when a player gets upset enough to cause a scene, it's probably been bubbling up for a while.

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07-19-2013, 04:23 PM
  #68
noobman
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By and large I think everyone should get equal ice time. If the captain was constantly benching this guy or giving him a hard time all year I can understand why he might have lashed out.

If he just out of the blue decided to play that card then he really shouldn't be on the team anymore.

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07-19-2013, 09:16 PM
  #69
MrFunnyWobbl
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He's a loser and nobody needs him on a team. You do whatever it takes to win.

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07-19-2013, 09:37 PM
  #70
RandV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitbtw View Post
I'd much rather be on a team with a good group of guys that all want to win the game. There is a balance, but the lackadaisical attitude or exercise or "I'm just playing for fun" are all cop-outs to being accountable to the greater goal. I'm not saying people go out like it's game 7, but I want teammates that are good sports AND competitive.

If you don't want competition, go play pick-up. That said, there is also a difference between a competitive bad sport and a competitive good sport. Fill your team with the latter, and you're going to have a good time.
You know that about 1/4 to 1/3 of the teams in any beer or rec league aren't going to be competitive? On my current low div summer team for example, a lot of teams have been moved up or down but the current W-L record in our division standings are:

6-1-1
6-2
5-2-1
7-1
4-4
2-6
1-7
0-8

I'm on the 2-6 team, and it's still a hell of a lot more fun than playing drop in. If someone says they're playing hockey 'just for the exercise' well there's a lot of cheaper and more effective way you can get exercise, so at a fundamental level there's still something they like about playing an organized game of hockey.

That doesn't mean you should be a total slacker and be an ******* about it, rather on my 2-6 team we try hard and compete but more often than not we're going to lose and at the end of the day that doesn't matter because it's the 'playing hockey' part that's fun. Yeah it's a little funner if you're winning, and I've been on both sides of the standings, but you can't always get everything.

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07-20-2013, 12:38 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by BmxHockey View Post
You're wrong. Winning is everything and it doesn't matter what level. It feels good to win. It's better than losing. Playoff time several minutes left down one goal-take the benders off...
Agreed. Can't stand those people who are complacent with losing.

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07-20-2013, 01:11 AM
  #72
xX Hot Fuss
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I really dont understand how beer league guys, even playing "A" or "B" level, can get THAT into the whole winning and losing thing. I think both the captain and the guy are wrong but the complainer is more wrong than the captain.

Its a beer league, you're playing for nothing. I really do get the competitiveness of games but there's a line you have to draw before you're taking meaningless games WAAAAAY too seriously. If you're really getting a sense of glory or accomplishment out of those games then you're putting too much stock into a rec league IMO. Does it really matter if you lose a playoff game? With that said, this isn't little league where everyone plays x amount of innings and gets x amounts of at bats. The dude is an adult, he should act like one.

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07-20-2013, 09:47 AM
  #73
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There's nothing wrong with stacking a line in the last minute, so long as everyone has had equal time up to that point. Yes, we all pay the same (hopefully), but everyone likes to win, and one minute of playing time is just 2.22% of a 45 minute game.

I've been on both sides of the line stacking equation, as I've been benched in the final minute and I've been put out there over other guys. I think it's the right thing to do.

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07-20-2013, 11:44 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
I really dont understand how beer league guys, even playing "A" or "B" level, can get THAT into the whole winning and losing thing. I think both the captain and the guy are wrong but the complainer is more wrong than the captain.

Its a beer league, you're playing for nothing. I really do get the competitiveness of games but there's a line you have to draw before you're taking meaningless games WAAAAAY too seriously. If you're really getting a sense of glory or accomplishment out of those games then you're putting too much stock into a rec league IMO. Does it really matter if you lose a playoff game? With that said, this isn't little league where everyone plays x amount of innings and gets x amounts of at bats. The dude is an adult, he should act like one.
I agree with this completely. Hah if winning is the only thing then maybe you should have played that way as a midget and you'd be somewhere. But if that just isn't your skill level then you have to accept that your play has put you in a league where there might be guys where winning their 11pm on a Tuesday division 4 game isn't going to make or break their week.

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07-20-2013, 01:04 PM
  #75
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It depends if the captain is a "fair" captain. Like others have said, if the guy got benched every time they were down a goal or in the final minutes of the game, that's way more than "take one for the team".

A lot of you might say "yea, he should have sat" but part of the captain's job is make everyone feel they are important and part of the team regardless of their roles/skill. People should listen to the captain because they respect him and not because he wears a "C" or the best player on the ice. If the troubled player wanted to play because he felt he was getting mistreated, unimportant to the team, useless. That's on the captain.

The player has to "want" to give one up for the team and not because the captain said so.

There are selfish jerks out there but there seems to be more than meets the eye.

Play to win but dealing with losing is the most important aspect of the team. Helping teammates, building friendships, encouraging others? That makes you a better person.

Would you like someone to slash and break your $200 sticks because you were going to get a good shot? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar Treatment View Post
I agree with this completely. Hah if winning is the only thing then maybe you should have played that way as a midget and you'd be somewhere. But if that just isn't your skill level then you have to accept that your play has put you in a league where there might be guys where winning their 11pm on a Tuesday division 4 game isn't going to make or break their week.
exactly. no one is playing for a living here. Have fun, enjoy the competitiveness (to a level you're comfortable with) and make friends. Winning is a bonus and not a "need".

Even NHL coaches give 4th line players ice time during the final minutes of the game.


Last edited by goonx: 07-20-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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