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George McPhee II

View Poll Results: Do the Caps need a new GM? Fire George, or keep George?
Fire George 80 81.63%
Keep George 18 18.37%
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Old
07-16-2013, 09:21 PM
  #426
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I just think its time for a fresh set of eyes. Someone with a tad more ambition to try and win and not just constantly look at our roster each year and say "were fine".


Has he drafted well?

Our best prospect is currently in the KHL and won't come over until 2014/2015.
Traded away one of the top prospects for Erat, who I am a fan of, just on the wrong side of 30 and firmly believe the deal could of gotten done without giving up a former 11th overall pick who fell into the Capitals laps.

Traded away a promising energy player in Eakin for a rental.


Let Semin walk away for free, took how long to find a 2nd line C and again, was just a one year rental.

Just need someone new. Not saying we need a Paul Holmgren that shakes up the roster each year, just someone that has a drive to win the Cup.

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07-16-2013, 11:36 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Robert Theodorson View Post
It is and always has been my belief that GMGM pulls the strings or owns Leonsis somehow.

Please cite precedent where you can peak your first year in office, then slowly decline over a decade and a half without achieving your ultimate objective, in this case the Cup.

The only occupation I can think of that matches what McPhee currently holds in terms of unwarranted job security is a dictator, warlord, or 3rd world strongman.
makfi's grip on the GM position of the caps is bordering on legendary.

hired by pollin, kept by teddy log-on. has no deep rooted ties to the org - never played for them, never interned with them, not related to an owner or current/past player.

in the two years he was employed by pollin he watched over the best season a caps team ever had, a SC finals appearance, in his first year. in the 14 years he's been employed by papa ted, he's been over teams that have won a grand total of 3 playoff series.

2 years, pollin, 3 round wins. 14 years, leonsis, 3 round wins.

teddy is either the dumbest owner on the planet, or he's the cheapest/shrewdest one.

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07-17-2013, 12:02 AM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
makfi's grip on the GM position of the caps is bordering on legendary.

hired by pollin, kept by teddy log-on. has no deep rooted ties to the org - never played for them, never interned with them, not related to an owner or current/past player.

in the two years he was employed by pollin he watched over the best season a caps team ever had, a SC finals appearance, in his first year. in the 14 years he's been employed by papa ted, he's been over teams that have won a grand total of 3 playoff series.

2 years, pollin, 3 round wins. 14 years, leonsis, 3 round wins.

teddy is either the dumbest owner on the planet, or he's the cheapest/shrewdest one.
This post made me laugh and cry. Well done, sir.

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07-17-2013, 02:26 AM
  #429
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There wasn't an option for "Fire the **** out of Him."

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07-17-2013, 02:41 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
teddy is either the dumbest owner on the planet, or he's the cheapest/shrewdest one.

It's as if Ted is really a NY Rangers fan and owns the Caps just for laughs.

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07-17-2013, 07:49 AM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
makfi's grip on the GM position of the caps is bordering on legendary.

hired by pollin, kept by teddy log-on. has no deep rooted ties to the org - never played for them, never interned with them, not related to an owner or current/past player.

in the two years he was employed by pollin he watched over the best season a caps team ever had, a SC finals appearance, in his first year. in the 14 years he's been employed by papa ted, he's been over teams that have won a grand total of 3 playoff series.

2 years, pollin, 3 round wins. 14 years, leonsis, 3 round wins.

teddy is either the dumbest owner on the planet, or he's the cheapest/shrewdest one.
Too bad Steve Jobs didn't buy the team because he refused to accept mediocrity in anything.

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07-17-2013, 08:12 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Too bad Steve Jobs didn't buy the team because he refused to accept mediocrity in anything.

You've got that right. Holy crap how many guys would he have fired by now if necessary? He would've brought in "A" players to manage the place which is what I've been screaming for since about 2002. George is a "B" player.

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07-17-2013, 08:21 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post

BobRouse, to your point about being on the right track. I just don't buy it, all due respect. He's shifted gears with each playoff failure and each coaching change. He's throwing spaghetti at the wall. Even if you're right and some of it sticks this time, it's flailing. It's not strategic. It's not organized. It's not the result of a committed vision of what a hockey team should be. Without that, it almost certainly can't be successful. Every move is a crap shoot. And if it stumbles, history has shown he's most likely to veer off in some other random direction.

We need someone who comes in with a true plan. A vision. And works toward it. That's just not McPhee. He's not shown any propensity for that.
GMGM has always had a history of overcompensating when things don't go as planned that I will give you and which is why I wanted him fired way back when. I think people were going to lynch ME for such a blasphemous thought back then.

However that didn't happen.

I still contend we are on the right track since. Drafting has been good. Cap management has been good. Lots of young promising players on the team now and waiting to come on board. All our core players are just entering their prime. The window isn't closed and we are in decent cap shape.

I consider all that stuff part of the vision. Build through the draft, be fiscally responsible enough to keep those players you drafted. He is realizing we need more toughness and has been taking steps to address that over the last couple years so GMGM I feel is on an upward trajectory.

We have a plan and a vision I contend. Has it worked? No. Not yet. I believe it will.

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Old
07-17-2013, 09:51 AM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Theodorson View Post
It is and always has been my belief that GMGM pulls the strings or owns Leonsis somehow.

Please cite precedent where you can peak your first year in office, then slowly decline over a decade and a half without achieving your ultimate objective, in this case the Cup.

The only occupation I can think of that matches what McPhee currently holds in terms of unwarranted job security is a dictator, warlord, or 3rd world strongman.
Awesome post!!!!

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Old
07-17-2013, 12:46 PM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
GMGM has always had a history of overcompensating when things don't go as planned that I will give you and which is why I wanted him fired way back when. I think people were going to lynch ME for such a blasphemous thought back then.

However that didn't happen.

I still contend we are on the right track since. Drafting has been good. Cap management has been good. Lots of young promising players on the team now and waiting to come on board. All our core players are just entering their prime. The window isn't closed and we are in decent cap shape.
I'd contend some of that. The cap management hasn't been great - there have been good contracts, but there have been plenty of terrible "loyal soldier" contracts that've followed us around. Poti, Schultz, now Erskine. We could've afforded to take some risks in free agency if we hadn't constantly had several million tied up in overpaid, marginal players. Taking a gamble on a guy like Seidenberg or Mitchell could've made a huge difference in the playoffs.

As for the core entering their prime, it sure seems like Ovie's best years have come and gone. Maybe Backstrom and Green's too, although that remains to be seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I consider all that stuff part of the vision. Build through the draft, be fiscally responsible enough to keep those players you drafted. He is realizing we need more toughness and has been taking steps to address that over the last couple years so GMGM I feel is on an upward trajectory.

We have a plan and a vision I contend. Has it worked? No. Not yet. I believe it will.
Is "build through the draft" really a plan though? Seems more like an overarching idea. A good one, but pretty simplistic. When you go from Boudreau to Hunter to Oates without any significant changes to the roster (well, maybe Erat) I think you either have no idea how to build a team to fit a system, or are seriously overrating your players. Probably some of both, in this case. In particular, his willingness to trust Erskine in a system that doesn't fit him at all really makes me question his judgement.

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Old
07-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I'd contend some of that. The cap management hasn't been great - there have been good contracts, but there have been plenty of terrible "loyal soldier" contracts that've followed us around. Poti, Schultz, now Erskine. We could've afforded to take some risks in free agency if we hadn't constantly had several million tied up in overpaid, marginal players. Taking a gamble on a guy like Seidenberg or Mitchell could've made a huge difference in the playoffs.

As for the core entering their prime, it sure seems like Ovie's best years have come and gone. Maybe Backstrom and Green's too, although that remains to be seen.



Is "build through the draft" really a plan though? Seems more like an overarching idea. A good one, but pretty simplistic. When you go from Boudreau to Hunter to Oates without any significant changes to the roster (well, maybe Erat) I think you either have no idea how to build a team to fit a system, or are seriously overrating your players. Probably some of both, in this case. In particular, his willingness to trust Erskine in a system that doesn't fit him at all really makes me question his judgement.
There are some contracts that I didn't like and in general weren't great but outside of Nylander I wouldn't consider any terrible. Maybe Pothier b/c I hated him but that was more personal on my part. Schultz wasn't great. Erskine obviously I like b/c he brings more to the table than just depth D as he is our enforcer and only real physical presence on the blueline.

Again I don't think any were THAT bad.

Ovechkin just won an MVP and a Richard trophy. He still clearly be a top 3 player in the league. Backstrom finished very strong last year and Green seemed healthy again and insane. He played half a healthy year and still led the NHL in goals by a D....

I think the Hunter hire was an abberation. I agree we should have never went to the trap in the first place and contend that George was behind it. Again..overreacting by GMGM. But he caught his mistake and wasn't too stubborn to change and bring in Oates.

You may have a point about "building through the draft" not being a plan. I guess I'm unclear about what a plan really involves. I know they envisioned a young team built from within that would be competitive year in and year out. I can see he is trying to bring in more grit for example. He is doing the whole handedness thing Oates wants to instill.

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07-17-2013, 09:19 PM
  #437
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Ted wanted to build thru the draft. Ok, so that's a franchise ideal. Got it.

But what kind of team do they want to be?

We've gone from hard edged vet team (Cup year +), to euro soft (Jagr years), we then sold everything off....to become young dumpster divers, to offensive fire power, to defense first counter puncher, to sand papery opportunistic?

Do I have all of them? Feel like I maybe missed one in there.....

So....what that? 6 different identities in 15 years?

George has more "hockey" personalities than Cybil did real ones.

BobRouse likes this current edition, so he's not seeing the forest thru trees here, so forgive him his homerism.

the Common point is that George fails at all of them.

Ted, wake up and.....

Fire George


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 07-17-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 10:45 PM
  #438
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Trading Forsberg (for so little in return) sealed it for me. Up until that point I actually LIKED McPhee's strategy: build through the draft, make frugal, bargain basement trades and free agent pick-ups. This is a strategy that has worked wonder for teams in other sports -- the New England Patriots put together a dynasty the last decade with the exact same approach.

But he trades Forberg to salvage a season that means absolutely nothing...shattering our dreams of having both Kuznetsov and Forsberg join a team already loaded with young talent...it really killed a lot of the interest I had in this team.

Time for him to go.

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Old
07-18-2013, 01:16 AM
  #439
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Building through the draft is a method, not a goal. I mean it's all well and good to build through the draft, but you kind of have to know what you're building. And in the NHL, you kind of have to stick to it long enough to see it out instead of having (assuming Ridley Simon's count is correct) 6 different identities in 15 years. An average of 2.5 years is not long enough to see if what you're doing works.

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07-18-2013, 01:31 AM
  #440
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You build through the draft and finish through trades and free agency. There's no way to win without all 3.

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07-18-2013, 09:10 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You build through the draft and finish through trades and free agency. There's no way to win without all 3.
And this is where he fails. Oh and the fact that we seem to start the playoffs with a different goalie every year. I think Holtby is the future, so it was nice to see some consistency in that regard. This is the least excited I've been about a Caps team since the year following the fire sale. We aren't making the playoffs with this roster. Ted is such a pathetic owner.

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07-18-2013, 09:25 PM
  #442
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If ted is pathetic, how would you describe Snyder(redskins), angelos, wong, and so on?

just curious

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07-18-2013, 09:30 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
If ted is pathetic, how would you describe Snyder(redskins), angelos, wong, and so on?

just curious
We've danced around this before. Snyder is 10x the owner Ted is. Snyder is a FAN first, which was detrimental to the well being of the team early on, but he seems to have learned from his mistakes. He got rid of Vinny and has now employed Bruce and Shanny. He's letting them do their thing and right the ship. The Skins will win a SB before the Caps win the Cup, you can take that to the bank. Snyder will do anything it takes to win. Ted is just happy with that status quo.

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07-18-2013, 09:41 PM
  #444
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Think about this..

Can you think of another situation where arguably the top talent in the sport or top 3 didn't even make it to the Conf Finals of their respective sport? It's mind blowing that an Ovechkin led team hasn't made it out of the 2nd round. He's the Barry Sanders of the NHL. That's the only comparison I can think of.

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07-18-2013, 10:53 PM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WcRoenick97 View Post
Think about this..

Can you think of another situation where arguably the top talent in the sport or top 3 didn't even make it to the Conf Finals of their respective sport? It's mind blowing that an Ovechkin led team hasn't made it out of the 2nd round. He's the Barry Sanders of the NHL. That's the only comparison I can think of.
Barry's Lions made it to the NFC Championship game during the 1991 season before getting destroyed 41-10 by the Skins. He only had 44 yards on 11 carries.

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Old
07-18-2013, 11:06 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Building through the draft is a method, not a goal. I mean it's all well and good to build through the draft, but you kind of have to know what you're building. And in the NHL, you kind of have to stick to it long enough to see it out instead of having (assuming Ridley Simon's count is correct) 6 different identities in 15 years. An average of 2.5 years is not long enough to see if what you're doing works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You build through the draft and finish through trades and free agency. There's no way to win without all 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WcRoenick97 View Post
And this is where he fails. Oh and the fact that we seem to start the playoffs with a different goalie every year. I think Holtby is the future, so it was nice to see some consistency in that regard. This is the least excited I've been about a Caps team since the year following the fire sale. We aren't making the playoffs with this roster. Ted is such a pathetic owner.
/thread

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07-18-2013, 11:10 PM
  #447
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The poll totals warm my heart....

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07-18-2013, 11:55 PM
  #448
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unfortunately you guys don't get a vote.

but you guys do seem to enjoy talking to each other about how much things suck.

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07-19-2013, 12:22 AM
  #449
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If ted is pathetic, how would you describe Snyder(redskins), angelos, wong, and so on?

just curious
the danny was even more pathetic, given his bizarre infatuation with lap dog vinny. but he saw the light, finally, and that chump cerrato was sent to pasture while he got a "real" GM.

angelos is a vertically challenged little turd, and as a life long yankee fan, i hope he keeps his turdish ways up.

i have no idea who that wong is.

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07-19-2013, 09:30 AM
  #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Ted wanted to build thru the draft. Ok, so that's a franchise ideal. Got it.

But what kind of team do they want to be?

We've gone from hard edged vet team (Cup year +), to euro soft (Jagr years), we then sold everything off....to become young dumpster divers, to offensive fire power, to defense first counter puncher, to sand papery opportunistic?

Do I have all of them? Feel like I maybe missed one in there.....

So....what that? 6 different identities in 15 years?

George has more "hockey" personalities than Cybil did real ones.

BobRouse likes this current edition, so he's not seeing the forest thru trees here, so forgive him his homerism.

the Common point is that George fails at all of them.

Ted, wake up and.....

Fire George
I suppose I am not clearly illustrating my point well enough or that it keeps getting brushed over.

Fact is its well documented I wanted George out of here YEARS ago. Fact is I strongly was not in favor of the Cap trap and still blame him for making BB go that route even though its only speculation.

However fact is he WASN'T fired.

Since then I have generally liked his moves. Trading flash for Hannan was strong on paper but didn't work out great. Getting Brouwer. Drafting Wilson and all the little moves he made last year.

The guy is on an UPWARD trajectory in my book.

You have a money pit of a car that you refuse to get rid of over years and years and it sucks. Finally you are getting around to fixing all the problems and NOW suddenly you want to dump it?

At this point I don't care what he did 5 years ago. I don't care that his drafting was atrocious pre lockout. Its the path he is on now. I believe he has slowly put the right idea together.

Its like breaking in a young player and giving him chance after chance only to find he sucks or hasn't developed the way you like. Suddenly the light seems to be turning on for him after years. The lynch mob forms at an inopportune time and decides this player, despite figuring things out, has a poor body of work and wants him out.

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