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Arron Asham on Torts and his future

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Old
07-19-2013, 06:33 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Of course it's allowed. You're also allowed to say Torts isn't even worth talking about, but it's advisable to own up to it.
Well i didnt deny it. I meant IN MY OPINION he isnt worth talking about. I just meant me personally

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07-19-2013, 06:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Eh. I'm not sure I believe Kreider had THAT much say in something like that.

It did seem pretty clear that Torts and management had differing views on Kreider's role this season tho
I agree. Plus kreider doesnt seem like the type to ***** and moan. Also in response to Bleed Ranger Blue, I never gave Kreider a pass. I said many times that Kreider didnt live up to expectations last year and he struggled. However i do feel he should have be paired with stepan/nash a few times during the regular season. The good news is that the line of Stepan-Nash-Kreider looked good against Boston so hopefully they carry that over next year

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07-19-2013, 06:58 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
like usual, you cherry pick parts of my post and make it like that is my main premise.
I responded to the only part of your post worthy of reply. So cherry pick? Hardly. The rest of your post was some rant about Torts that wasn't worthy of a response on my part.

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which it was not. yes, his brand of hockey was boring. is that even in question ?
When did I ever say it wasn't? Or did you just choose not to read my post before you clicked "submit reply?"

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and yes jon, i cannot overlook torts in totality. he was the sum of all his parts. part clown. part jerk. part snarky smartass. part bad in game coach. part micro manager. part stubborn stuck in the 90's oldschooler and lastly, part of, if not most of, the problem with this team looking unprepared, outclassed and clueless on many nights.
Yet he was our most successful coach in two decades. It's obnoxious for you to sit there and parrot this crap about him and not give him credit. What a joke.

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torts was like the bobby knight of the nhl sans the winning championships. i dont take knight seriously either. another pompous, arrogant, no boundaries goofball.
Yet he won. Are you seriously telling me you would rather have a nice coach and lose than have a mean coach and win?

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and i hated the devils style of play. it was impossible to watch. trap trap trap. score 1 maybe 2 goals and trap your opponent to death.
Yet they won. Are you seriously telling me you would rather play an upbeat style and lose than play a boring style and win?

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unwatchable. hockey.
Yeah. It did suck to watch that team win. It sucked for us. Guess what? Didn't suck for them.

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big difference though jon.... lemaires teams wons cups.... johnny boys nyr teams... not so much.
And how much of that is Torts's fault and how much is Sather's/the players' fault? Torts had this team within two games of going to the finals last year.

It's absurd. I don't think he was an amazing coach here and you won't find me saying so. He was, however, our best coach in two decades. He nearly got this team to a Cup. He was then fired when the players whined and quit on him.

Instead of being so disrespectful you should probably give credit when credit is due. I have to laugh when you say Torts is a jerk when you aren't exactly acting like anything but.

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07-19-2013, 07:08 PM
  #54
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Lots of disrespect for the coach of probably the best Rangers team a lot of us have ever seen. The guy isn't here anyone, it's amazing how enraged people still become about him. He did nothing but good for this franchise.

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07-19-2013, 07:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
No tears were shed when Torts was fired.



The summer cap gave the Rangers flexibility and they still put Asham on waivers. Asham sounds a little confused. The Rangers can assign him to the AHL in October and save $925,000 in cap space. Take a $75,000 cap hit.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/18...ortorellas-act
Quite frankly, he will play up to his worth, or deserve his stay in Hartford. I personally hope he makes it.

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07-19-2013, 08:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
Lots of disrespect for the coach of probably the best Rangers team a lot of us have ever seen. The guy isn't here anyone, it's amazing how enraged people still become about him. He did nothing but good for this franchise.
Look, we understand that many here havent followed this team all that long, but you gotta understand that many other where here for the long run.

We had by far the best roster since the cup years two seasons ago, and while we got to the SCFs, we looked like sheit doing so. Barely beating the 8th seed, barely beating the 7the seed and then loosing against the freakin mess named NJD being the 6th seed. And we really sucked when loosing against NJD while doing so.

Anyone can now see that Torts jus where caught with his pants down in NY. He became the joke of the league. Even THN called him out. We sucked offensively, just created nothing, and we had constant major break downs defensively and lived mostly on Hank to be honest (like literary giving up a breakaway per period).

We were really soft under him. Never retributed. There are no stats on it, but in terms of big hits we gotta have been 30th overall in the league. The only D that hit for us was Stralman like twice per year.

I know many love Torts for his tough talk to media. I get it. People think its cool with guys who talk tough. But fans who have been around for a while just don't have much patient with incomptence in NY. We have seen too much of it.

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07-19-2013, 08:39 PM
  #57
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I had plenty of my own gripes with Torts, plenty, but for people to hold a grudge? Kinda ridiculous. Also I don't understand this "Yeah we got to the ECF, but it was hard to get there". It's the playoffs, it's not supposed to be a cake-walk. People neglect to mention that that was a very young team, and was an invaluable learning experience for the core of this team. Torts did good things while he was here, and set up us well for the future. For that I respect him.

I expect us to be better offensively under AV. Slightly better. But will we be as good defensively?


Last edited by aufheben: 07-19-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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07-19-2013, 08:43 PM
  #58
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My grudge against Tortorella extends as far as I believe he was responsible for shipping out Gaborik, and that makes me sad.

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07-19-2013, 08:59 PM
  #59
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My grudge against Tortorella extends as far as I believe he was responsible for shipping out Gaborik, and that makes me sad.
I think he resigns with the Rangers when his contract is up for less money

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07-19-2013, 09:45 PM
  #60
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We've had like 4 coaches in the last 40 years plus who stayed at least 3 years and posted winning records. Torts is one. Its like this collective amnesia of all the horror show coaches we've had in that period. Hell, we've rarely had good coaches ever. Torts was a breath of fresh air compared to some of the hires made in the past.

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07-19-2013, 09:47 PM
  #61
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My grudge against Tortorella extends as far as I believe he was responsible for shipping out Gaborik, and that makes me sad.
General Managers typically make personnel decisions in professional sports.

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07-19-2013, 10:25 PM
  #62
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General Managers typically make personnel decisions in professional sports.
Oh, well, golly, thanks for filling me in.

Maybe it's just me being childishly naive, and new to the world of sports, but I was under the impression that coaches had some input in such matters.

Boy is my face red.

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07-19-2013, 10:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
On the topic of leadership, it seems like there was a lack of communication on behalf of the players. Tortorella said he was never approached by the players about his playing style or harsh demeanor. He's not the most approachable person, so the players could have gone to the front office/Sather during the season. However, this did not happen either - management found out the players were unhappy from their exit interviews.

I understand there are no Messiers on this team, but someone has to have the balls to speak up if there's a problem. The leaders on this team have to communicate with their teammates, the coach, and management. There's a lot more to leadership than laying it out there on the ice.
That's sad, when professional athletes don't have the balls to walk up and talk to a little old man. Got to wonder what is going on in that room, and if having a laissez faire coach now in AV is the answer.

Oh well. What's done is done. All we can do is sit back and watch the games.

There definitely is enough talent on this team to make the playoffs. It's up to the players to show what they can do.

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07-19-2013, 11:07 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
Torts was a class a clown

His teams were boring and uptight

He conducted himself like the dewsche that he is

He lost me after his stick swinging freak out moment

Some of us wanted him gone along time ago
Torts was a saint compared to "Psycho Mike" Keenan.


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07-19-2013, 11:11 PM
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To be fair i dont exactly give him all the credit for getting them to the ECF. I mean honestlly the rangers almost lost to the 8th seeded Senators and if it wasnt for Hank and the emergence of CK we would have probably lost in teh first round
"Almost" lost?? That only works with shuffleboard and hand grenades!

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07-19-2013, 11:15 PM
  #66
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If there's at least one thing to give Tortorella credit for, it was establishing accountability on the ice during the heart of his tenure in New York. That being said, Tortorella's coaching style had very likely run its course by the time this season ended. His stubbornness on imposing his system on the Rangers enabled the 2012 team to reach within two wins of the Cup final, but also exposed the susceptibilities of playing 82 regular season + 2 consecutive seven game playoff series worth of attrition-style hockey to the extent that it was exploited by the opponents. The only logical conclusion being that this house of cards fell apart in the latter part of the 2013 season and the semifinals when the Rangers, while not being terribly outclassed, were definitely outplayed and surely outcoached by Claude Julien's Bruins.

Tortorella is a coaching relic of the 90s, a Keenanesque taskmaster sans the flair for the theatrics. His insistence on having only a single assistant coach in Mike Sullivan flies in the face of the contemporary wisdom of delegating coaching duties to at least two assistants. And his mantra of "Stay the Course" eventually became code for: "This is our system! We won't change it! Come and exploit it!" The vaunted "Safe is Death" philosophy which we saw in Tampa Bay and eagerly awaited on Broadway didn't materialize, and was replaced with "Chip, chase, grind, and JAM with a generous helping of Five-Goalie System" ad nauseam that, while it maximized the talent on the Rangers roster to a 2011-12 Atlantic Division championship, became its Achilles' Heel.

Arron Asham surprisingly was level-headed and objective in his interview & commentary with the Toronto Sun. Spot on assessment of Tortorella, who while he would've wanted to play for him for a longer time frame, eventually grated on even his most ardent supporters on the team (e.g. Callahan, Richards, etc).

Final verdict on Torts and the Rangers? Mentally, physically tough (but not enough mental agility to adapt to AND dictate the pace of the game).
One of the best and most objective posts I've read on here in a long time especially as it relates to Torts!

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07-19-2013, 11:24 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
like usual, you cherry pick parts of my post and make it like that is my main premise. which it was not. yes, his brand of hockey was boring. is that even in question ?

and yes jon, i cannot overlook torts in totality. he was the sum of all his parts. part clown. part jerk. part snarky smartass. part bad in game coach. part micro manager. part stubborn stuck in the 90's oldschooler and lastly, part of, if not most of, the problem with this team looking unprepared, outclassed and clueless on many nights.

torts was like the bobby knight of the nhl sans the winning championships. i dont take knight seriously either. another pompous, arrogant, no boundaries goofball.

and i hated the devils style of play. it was impossible to watch. trap trap trap. score 1 maybe 2 goals and trap your opponent to death.

unwatchable. hockey.

big difference though jon.... lemaires teams wons cups.... johnny boys nyr teams... not so much.
Lemaire has won the same # of cups as Tortorella has; one(1).

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07-19-2013, 11:45 PM
  #68
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And he nearly got this team to the Cup finals. Why is it that some people on this board can only think of negative things to say about the best coach this team has had in 20 years? Is it that hard to give credit where credit is due?
Incidentally, our board is quite similar. We have a number of posters that outright refuse to acknowledge AV did anything for the Canucks except cost us a cup. While both teams needed a change, neither coach is not without high praise and I suspect we will both be happy with the results, at least for the next few years.

Here's hoping Asham is wrong until the Sedins wind down and we're not contending though.

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07-20-2013, 01:41 AM
  #69
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Torts wasn't that bad a coach. He just wasn't a tactician, unless you consider his emphasis on risk aversion a tactic to support Lundqvist.

He was too phony at times, with all his BS about puck possession and "safe is death", yet we watched the entire 2012 postseason team sit back and take hammer blows to the chin by the opponents four lines, only to be bailed out by timely goals and Lundqvist.

Just be careful what you wish for. If the team is irresponsible trying to generate offense under Vigneault, I could see a lot of people around here wishing for the "boring" guy back.

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07-20-2013, 08:20 AM
  #70
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[QUOTE=Sweet Gerald;69407465]Oh, well, golly, thanks for filling me in.

Maybe it's just me being childishly naive, and new to the world of sports, but I was under the impression that coaches had some input in such matters.

Boy is my face red.[

Gaborik ran himself out of town, Sathet approved the transaction. Happy to help.

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07-20-2013, 09:18 AM
  #71
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I wonder how many people who complain about "unwatchable hockey" under Torts were fans of the team during the dark ages, before the 05-06 lockout...that team played no defense, and subsequently did absolutely nothing. After 8 years of that ********, I find it hard to believe that any fan would be clamoring for "more exciting hockey" instead of results. Torts gave us results.

That being said, obviously this team needs to score more goals. But I really don't get the "unwatchable hockey" argument being used against John.

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07-20-2013, 09:49 AM
  #72
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In general, I think people underrate how professional player's are these days.

Asham of course have a point. But I think the big problem with Torts was that he went in his own direction in terms of X and Os and there were zero indications that Torts was right and every other coach more or less in this league was wrong.

You need to be consequent and you need to be perfect defensively, but we by design did not take the puck to the net before we got it below the hashmarks, we played with the biggest possible marginals to get the puck the length of the ice. In these areas we went 180‘ in the opposite directions as the successful teams in this league. It's covered by many experts. I raised a flag about this being the problem for Torts in Tampa when he signed here in NY. It's been an ongoing story.

I don't think Torts was a bad leader. I think many admired for being an extremely strong leader. But, leadership is ONLY a TOOL to achieve something.

Our players played our game plan to PERFECTION in the POs. But it got us nowhere. Washington slaughtered us most of the series. Boston slaughtered us from the drop of the puck in G1. Our players completely sacrifized themselves.

I definitely believe that's why people turned on Torts. The combination of the above.
This commonly held notion that Torts coaches one way while every other coach is in unison coaching a different way is nonsense. It is beyond nonsense.

After the new guy gets here, and the new coach smell fades, the usual suspects will post incredulously how stupid the new guy is. Then if God forbid, the Rangers don't make it to the Finals, the chorus will grow louder.

Fans are often certain that coaches suck or that one or two guys on the roster suck, but can never quite grasp the possibility that perhaps the guys we root for don't deserve to win.

After you watch the same scenario multiple times it is fun to watch it play out over and over again.

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07-20-2013, 09:59 AM
  #73
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I believe it was the season opener of the 02-03 season, everyone was excited about the season, there was a buz at MSG. As usual, we the fans showed up ready to go.

Jim Brewer was a special guest in the booth.

Everyone is ready to go.

The puck drops with eager anticipation.

No Ranger showed up to play hockey. The flattest, most lifeless, pathetic joke i can remember.

Buzzer sounds for the end of the first period. Boos. Loud boos. Jim Brewer ripping the team a new one on live tv. He's a comedian.

Yeah, anyone who went through the garbage days between 98-2004 wouodn't argue with Tortorella's mild results. He had one good year. A great year for the Rangers that I'm thankful for. That was two seasons ago now. His Cup was 10 years ago now.

He had no willingness to adapt to what the game being played dictated. He bullied his players. He had to go. Plain and simple.

I personally don't care what Asham says, because he is a garbage hockey player by NHL standards. And hopefully he's off the roster in October and stays off the roster indefinitely.

But Tortorella lost it. He had to go.

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07-20-2013, 10:04 AM
  #74
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This commonly held notion that Torts coaches one way while every other coach is in unison coaching a different way is nonsense. It is beyond nonsense.

After the new guy gets here, and the new coach smell fades, the usual suspects will post incredulously how stupid the new guy is. Then if God forbid, the Rangers don't make it to the Finals, the chorus will grow louder.

Fans are often certain that coaches suck or that one or two guys on the roster suck, but can never quite grasp the possibility that perhaps the guys we root for don't deserve to win.

After you watch the same scenario multiple times it is fun to watch it play out over and over again.
So, because Vigneault may or may not be the guy who takes them further, Tortorella shouldn't have been fired? His glaring faults shouldn't be talked about?

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07-20-2013, 10:19 AM
  #75
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Absolutely, but Richards probably had Torts' ear moreso than Callahan, and had that veteran Cup-winning resume which you would think would make him one of the go-to guys in that room.

Callahan didn't have an easy Captaincy under Torts. Torts created a bully-like atmosphere and it seems as if both Callahan and Richards just sat back and took beatings.

Callahan doesn't seem like the kind of person who would challenge a guy like Torts. The two examples I used regarding Coughlin and Keenan (and also Buck Showalter) shows that team leadership can step up to their coach and positive results come out of it.
Richards had more influence than Callahan?

Callahan and Richards sat back and took beatings?

Callahan doesn't seem the type to challenge Torts?

Three opinions that seem to be pulled out of thin air, to me. Is there any evidence of this? Is this something that is picked up by watching a a game or a press conference or an in between period interview?

Where do these beliefs come from?

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