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Old
07-19-2013, 09:12 PM
  #51
Monctonscout
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After one year, Bergevin's become the preacher of slow rebuilds, solid draft picks, safe trades and cautious contracts. Blockbuster deals and "Free-Agent Frenzy"? No thanks, we're on a strict diet. WellÖ maybe just a little nibble of Prust and a mini Briere brioche, but not too much or too long or it goes straight to our hips.

Bergevin took a franchise that was stuffing its belly with fatty contracts and stop-gap 30-year-olds, and turned it into a prudent, cap-conscious, youth-obsessed team of calorie-counters. In a red-meat league, we've become the vegetarians. During the trade deadline, draft day and free agency, while so many teams were dealing like drunken sailors, Montreal was the designated driver.

So we've trimmed the fat and look ten years younger. But now that the Habs are looking healthier, are we in danger of being TOO conservative? Nobody wants to go back to the days when we got hustled for assets, draft picks and cash, but are we afraid to make the bold move that separates real contenders from merely good teams? Look at most other Cup-winners and you see a balance of caution and balls. LA built much of its core through great draft picks, but then made two major deals trading big assets for Carter and Richards. Boston has spent big money on Chara and thrown the dice big-time dealing assets to get Rask and Seguin, and now Eriksson. Even Chicago, with the best group of draftees in the league, purchased big UFA, Marian Hossa.

The question is: What's the best balance of caution and balls for the Habs? Right now, I see a lot of caution, little balls. Bergevin says he's building through the draft, yet he was unwilling to do what it took to trade up for a higher pick. He says we need size, but hasn't been willing (so far) to part with assets to fill that gap. Make no mistake -- I'm not talking about throwing stupid contracts at mid-tier players, I'm talking about targeting a high-end need and doing whatever it takes to get him. Our strong prospect pool doesn't include a Drouin, Kane or Toews, nor do we have a wealth of 1st-line talent soon to explode like Edmonton. Our core and upcoming youth are good, but not elite. If we want a Stanley Cup, we'll need to trade or purchase a superior game-changing player or two.

Maybe the prices have all been too high. Maybe key players are already in discussion. I'm patient for now. But I expect to start seeing some ballsy moves between September and next trade deadline. Package some roster players, spend some serious money, I don't care. At some point, Bergevin will have to stop saying, "Thanks, we're good!" or "I tried", and start saying, "What will it take?".
Holmren is very »ballsy» but Philly went from the finals to a ****** team, so balls can be a bad thing!

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07-19-2013, 09:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
More than we've got. Not many more, but more.
We have 4 top-9 forwards under 24 including a 19 year old. Anymore and we would be too young though admittedly we are a little short on the 25-30 year old players (But you don't get those through the draft anyways).

On D we only have 2 players over 30.

I mean if we add a couple of young guys, then turn around and trade a couple of young guys for a veteran aren't we right back where we are now?

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07-19-2013, 09:23 PM
  #53
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You can't compare the two contracts by just looking at the yearly salary. Clarkson is 5.25 million per year for a whopping 7 years!! While Briere is 4 million per year for 2 years. That's not a 'basically 1m difference'. Come back and talk about that 3-4 years from now when Clarkson is a huge albatross hanging around TOs neck.
Well in 3-4 years the cap is probably going to be well over 70m. Also if we are competing for the cup for those 3-4 years I don't really care if it causes some problems down the road. Unless he becomes Gomez bad you can always trade him, and being overpaid 2-3m is not the end of the world especially if we can get other players at a discount. I mean you could look at it like Pacioretty & Clarkson for less than 10m which even in 3-4 years will be good.

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07-19-2013, 09:24 PM
  #54
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I think we have forgotten another very important piece in building a true competitor. That is an elite coach and staff. You don't win with crappy coaching we have seen that for too long.

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07-19-2013, 09:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
We have 4 top-9 forwards under 24 including a 19 year old. Anymore and we would be too young though admittedly we are a little short on the 25-30 year old players (But you don't get those through the draft anyways).

On D we only have 2 players over 30.

I mean if we add a couple of young guys, then turn around and trade a couple of young guys for a veteran aren't we right back where we are now?
It's all about timing. We aren't one-two pieces away from a Cup at this point, so right now we continue adding young talent in the hopes that some of them pan out. When we get closr to a Cup, that's when you trade (and potentially overpay) some great young talent for a couple of guys that can get you there and then cross your fingers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But that's how you have to do it, in my opinion.

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07-19-2013, 09:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
It's all about timing. We aren't one-two pieces away from a Cup at this point, so right now we continue adding young talent in the hopes that some of them pan out. When we get closr to a Cup, that's when you trade (and potentially overpay) some great young talent for a couple of guys that can get you there and then cross your fingers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But that's how you have to do it, in my opinion.
Unless you think last year was a complete fluke we are two pieces away. A top 6/9 player with size and a D that can clear the crease. If we wait to find those guys via the draft then we will also need another top-pairing D when Markov is gone, and another couple top-6 wingers at least one of whom has size to replace Bourque and Gionta. Then you have to figure at least one of Emelin or Diaz if not both will head to free agency next year so we will need replacements for them as well. I know we have great drafting but we are talking 5-6 quality NHLers and one Elite one. That's asking a lot.

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07-19-2013, 09:59 PM
  #57
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Question for you guys: How do you think this team performs with a Carey Price playing to his potential?

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07-19-2013, 10:10 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Unless you think last year was a complete fluke we are two pieces away. A top 6/9 player with size and a D that can clear the crease. If we wait to find those guys via the draft then we will also need another top-pairing D when Markov is gone, and another couple top-6 wingers at least one of whom has size to replace Bourque and Gionta. Then you have to figure at least one of Emelin or Diaz if not both will head to free agency next year so we will need replacements for them as well. I know we have great drafting but we are talking 5-6 quality NHLers and one Elite one. That's asking a lot.
I don't think last year was a complete fluke, however I think the team overachieved throughout the season. They're not as good as their regular season record would indicate, just like they aren't as bad as their playoff performance would suggest. We're more than 2 pieces away. And yes, as time goes by the likes of Markov and Gionta will be gone. However, good young talent fills in the spaces while players like Patches, Eller and Subban continue to improve.

Now is definitely not the time to deal youth for vets.

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07-19-2013, 10:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Holmren is very »ballsy» but Philly went from the finals to a ****** team, so balls can be a bad thing!
Haha, so true.

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07-19-2013, 10:41 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Pandemic View Post
Question for you guys: How do you think this team performs with a Carey Price playing to his potential?
I'd honestly say around how the NY Rangers perform; a good, yet inconsistent team with an elite goaltender...too much reliance on Lundqvist and not enough on a complete team eventually bites the Rangers in the butt every year; much the same can be said of the Habs and would even be said if Carey was that Elite tender we all know he has the tools to be...

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07-19-2013, 10:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Unless you think last year was a complete fluke we are two pieces away. A top 6/9 player with size and a D that can clear the crease. If we wait to find those guys via the draft then we will also need another top-pairing D when Markov is gone, and another couple top-6 wingers at least one of whom has size to replace Bourque and Gionta. Then you have to figure at least one of Emelin or Diaz if not both will head to free agency next year so we will need replacements for them as well. I know we have great drafting but we are talking 5-6 quality NHLers and one Elite one. That's asking a lot.
Beaulieu will take Markovs spot and at the quality Markov showed at times that's not a reach

Tinordi easily replaces gorges and brings actual physicality and offense

Gallgher is already better than gio...

Galchenyuk will be a better Plekanec, maybe a little less defensively but way more skill and offense

McCarron or DLR can take Bourques spot, I hope he doesn't regress this year but he's a huge question mark

Add to that Collberg, Eller (who we don't even have comparisons for now) and all the other prospects we have a great team coming, it would be a shame to trade that for 1-2 years of a 30+ yo for a cup run we aren't prepared for

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07-19-2013, 11:34 PM
  #62
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In what world did Chicago have no big UFAs? They spent huge sums of money on Campbell, Huet, Hossa. That's what put them over the top the 1st time, and without going the distance before they likely wouldn't have won last year. LA did the same thing and traded for Carter, Richards, Penner. Only Pittsburgh was through the draft only and they had 5 top-5 picks 2 of whom are the best 2 considered the best in the world.

Building your core through the draft is the right thing to do, but at some point you have to switch over from building to going for it. The timing of that is of course crucial. For us that time has arrived.
You are only partially correct.

Timing is crucial but that time is not right now. It is probably closer to two to three years from now hopefully when youngsters like Galchenyuk , Tinordi and Beaulieu have established themselves and we are able to work in players like DLR, Collberg and McCarron.

It would be stupid to try and fast track this process right now. In the new NHL there are rarely any top free agents available and the odd one that may pop up is extremely unlikely to come to Montreal.......it has been that way for a very long time. I'm talking about players of a Hossa, Suter, Parise type calibre. The only route outside of the draft for MB to add an impact/core player is via trade and at this point in the teams development it doesn't make any sense to trade valuable prospects and picks for a player who is in the more advanced stages of his career.

For those who don't understand this concept......this is why we signed Briere. He didn't cost us any assets and is a stop gap between now and then to help keep us competitive. It really is that simple.

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07-19-2013, 11:52 PM
  #63
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I dont think we will be too conservative

Bergevin will sign or trade if it's worth it

One of his main tasks here has been to clean up the mess left by his predecsssors (bad seeds, salary cap destruction) and establish a winning culture, a long term project and making sure we get players who want to play here and show up every night

You have to lay the foundations to do all that, it's a step by step approach

Once the club has some stability, he will start making big trades and sign big fishes.

But right now, he wont add anything too heavy as it will break the foundations he is laying.

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07-20-2013, 12:22 AM
  #64
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MB has been the preacher of slow rebuilds, solid draft picks, safe trades and cautious contracts since he arrived too keep expectation of crazy fan and crazier media low. He knew he wouldn't be able to sign any big name via UFA without over massif over payment, the team isn't one player away from the cup and even if that player was available it would mean to get rid of a equal value some where else... He says these thing so the day (deadline or FA) that he doesn't sign or move he can say he is staying the course. but it doesn't matter want he says since it doesn't mean he isn't trying to hit it out of the park.

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07-20-2013, 12:26 AM
  #65
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Was just reading Eklund and he talked in very general terms about how the Flyers will be dealing a D-man before the start of the season, mentioning Meszaros as the one they want to move, probably with difficulty, and Grossman as a possibility. As some have mentioned, he seems to have real info on the Flyers and I have more faith in a general comment like that than anything specific. This is where MB needs to be in constant touch. If the rumours are true of MB talking about Letang and Edler to their teams then for sure he is looking for that other D-man that could play 22-23 minutes plus for 4-5 ( signed for 3 more ) years, you know, in our window. Coburn isn't Edler or Letang quality but he adds a physical, shut down element. Grossman is an absolutely stay at home shut down guy. No to Meszaros. Anyway, this is where this thread can be turned upside down as Im guessing part of such a deal could involve Nathan B.

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07-20-2013, 12:45 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Was just reading Eklund and he talked in very general terms about how the Flyers will be dealing a D-man before the start of the season, mentioning Meszaros as the one they want to move, probably with difficulty, and Grossman as a possibility. As some have mentioned, he seems to have real info on the Flyers and I have more faith in a general comment like that than anything specific. This is where MB needs to be in constant touch. If the rumours are true of MB talking about Letang and Edler to their teams then for sure he is looking for that other D-man that could play 22-23 minutes plus for 4-5 ( signed for 3 more ) years, you know, in our window. Coburn isn't Edler or Letang quality but he adds a physical, shut down element. Grossman is an absolutely stay at home shut down guy. No to Meszaros. Anyway, this is where this thread can be turned upside down as Im guessing part of such a deal could involve Nathan B.
If Bergevin trades Beaulieu for a guy a year or two away from 30 he should be fired, imo. If he wants to trade for Laughton or Morin I can understand it, maybe not like it but if he starts trading for older guys, I'm finished with him.

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07-20-2013, 12:49 AM
  #67
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Was just reading Eklund and he talked in very general terms about how the Flyers will be dealing a D-man before the start of the season, mentioning Meszaros as the one they want to move, probably with difficulty, and Grossman as a possibility. As some have mentioned, he seems to have real info on the Flyers and I have more faith in a general comment like that than anything specific. This is where MB needs to be in constant touch. If the rumours are true of MB talking about Letang and Edler to their teams then for sure he is looking for that other D-man that could play 22-23 minutes plus for 4-5 ( signed for 3 more ) years, you know, in our window. Coburn isn't Edler or Letang quality but he adds a physical, shut down element. Grossman is an absolutely stay at home shut down guy. No to Meszaros. Anyway, this is where this thread can be turned upside down as Im guessing part of such a deal could involve Nathan B.
MB is not going to deal Beaulieu. Or Tinordi. Or any of our other top youngsters. Not right now. It would make no sense at all.

If we were that one defenseman away, then maybe he'd consider moving a young stud for a proven workhorse. But that's not the case. No need to speculate further on that one.

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07-20-2013, 01:13 AM
  #68
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Let me ask you this then. Besides Subban how can play 25min a night against more or less top opposition and finish top-5 in D scoring? Are you counting on a 23 year old Beaulieu to do that
Yes, Subban, Tinordi and Beaulieu, with Emelin and Gorges in support. We need another 5th D over the next two years.

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Let's assume Eller can adequately replace Plekanec, who will be our 3rd line center that can produce at a 0.65 ppg rate with hardly any PP time?
Plekanec, obviously.

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As you said we don't even know if Collberg can be an NHLer but if he or another prospect can't come in and score 25-30 goals and be a good two-way player then we are taking a step back when we lose Gionta.
Yes, a RW for Plekanec is a need. Leblanc could be that guy, if he regains his form on a fully-healed ankle.

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Also Subban is the reigning Norris champ, he'll likely improve with experience but not by much, same goes for Pacioretty he's lead our teams in points for 2 seasons now, he's a 60-70pt player. He's not going to be much better than he is right now. Without a change in role Eller's not going to be able to do more than what he's currently giving either.
But Bournival could turn into a good fourth-line center with potential for shutdown role if one of the top-3 centres is hurt.

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Does the team have flaws, absolutely but none of them will be addressed in 2 years by the development of our prospects unless one of them takes a massive leap in their development which is unlikely.
Tinordi addresses a massive need, so does McCarron, but he might be 3 years away. Or then again, maybe not, Lucic came in young, after all.

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Care to tell me what you think our team is lacking in order to make a strong playoff push?
More size, and a more consistently good Carey Price.

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07-20-2013, 01:24 AM
  #69
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MB is not going to deal Beaulieu. Or Tinordi. Or any of our other top youngsters. Not right now. It would make no sense at all.

If we were that one defenseman away, then maybe he'd consider moving a young stud for a proven workhorse. But that's not the case. No need to speculate further on that one.
Would rather not move Nathan B either, prefer it to be Diaz. Anyway, Nathan B being part of it is me thinking Homer would want him. The point is that if the Flyers are looking to deal we should be shooting for Coburn or Grossman ( not as good moving the puck but huge, physical, strong defensively, crease clearer ) as either would address the need to get bigger and more physical on the blue line and unlike most all of the UFAs are youngish as both are 28. Both have 3 years left, Coburn at $4.5M and Grossman at $3.5M. Maybe Diaz, a younger PMD relative to what the Flyers have and a 2nd round pick or mid-prospect would do it. UFA Fistric is younger by a year and physical, but not near these guys in terms of quality.

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07-20-2013, 01:38 AM
  #70
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Maybe the prices have all been too high. Maybe key players are already in discussion. I'm patient for now. But I expect to start seeing some ballsy moves between September and next trade deadline. Package some roster players, spend some serious money, I don't care. At some point, Bergevin will have to stop saying, "Thanks, we're good!" or "I tried", and start saying, "What will it take?".
Really good writing, 'In a red-meat league, we've become the vegetarians.' And an objective, thoughtful post.

I have also said that Bergy will need to start making bold trades no later than next summer, as the cup window with our current young core is 2014-2019, and this 2013 draft, and certainly the 2014 draft, may be the last ones that help with this cup window.

I am also impressed by the intelligence of most replies, quoted below.

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Personally, I am not entirely clear on what Bergevin's plan is. His narratives to the media indicates one thing, but I find that his moves indicate another

Bergevin at this point looks like he's a GM who struggling with balancing his ideology of character, drafting and cap crunching with the fact that the Canadiens are not a bottom dweller, but rather a team which can be competitive with a few shrewd moves.

I think it's too early to tell right now. We can judge individual moves, but the whole picture is still fuzzy and nebulous because he's only been with the team a year.
Great post. One thing that people here forget: Bergy has two briefs: Build for the future, while competing now. That is very difficult.

Personally, I don't care if we compete now, as the cup is what counts for me. But others here care how the Habs do every year, and I understand that. I would say that this board is often split between compete now guys, and build for cup guys.

The delusional ones are the ones who think that if we picked up Clarkson, then 'anything can happen' in the PO, and we might win now.

I also have a very strong position on age. I believe almost all FA, except stars, over 30 are absolutely useless, unless you are contending the year you pick them up. Nothing pleases me more than Laffs being idiots and paying Clarkson big money for nothing for the 6 years after he is 30, when they will need younger players to compete for the cup. Clarkson is your classic 23 to 31 player, who plays tough, and is done by 31. He's 29.

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Sometimes it takes balls to remain cautious.......

Two balls in the bush are better than a bird in the hand........
Two balls in a bird's bush are better than anything.

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Originally Posted by pezcore View Post

So far I like what Bergevin has done and im willing to wait a couple more years as a bubble team. In 3 years or so. We will see most of our high picks (Collberg, McCarron, DLR, Beaulieu) with our young core (Galchenyuk, Price, Subban, Pax, Gallagher, Tinordi) and we'll have one hell of a team....and add 2 drafts to that!!!
If we agree with my position on the degeneration of players over 30 in today's NHL, then 2014 will be the last draft year with players that could win with Price, Max, or Subby. (Price, as a goalie, may be an exception.) 2015 draft is about extending the cup window with a new young core, not being in this cup window.

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Building your core through the draft is the right thing to do, but at some point you have to switch over from building to going for it. The timing of that is of course crucial. For us that time has arrived.
That time has not arrived. We have too many question marks this year. We need one more year of evaluation, and development, and hopefully one last top ten pick in 2014. Bergy will then need to move fast in summer 2014.

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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
I can't get more clear than I have been, everyone here agrees this team isn't ready... I love the "that's 2 players, not exactly a whole lot" comment because just cause they are out there doesn't mean they want to come here and incase you weren't aware those guys don't grow on trees... Don't have to look far the leafs just signed one to a disgusting contract, if you think the habs are better off signing guys to the caphits and contract lengths that Clarkson and Horton got right now, than I don't have anything else to talk to you about because that's insanity
Well said.



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Still can't understand the Briere signing.
I really don't know what the hell this guy is doing. I hope he has a plan but he's had some strange decisions so far.
LG in principle I agree with you, as usual, and you are in the group here that is cup oriented, not the group that is 'make the PO and anything can happen', oriented.

However I remind you that Bergy has two mandates from Molson: Build, but compete as well. Briere is about competing now, and I think he will help in that respect. But I won't be too excited about his miracle comeback 30 goal season, as it will mean nothing toward our cup window. He's simply too old.

The real question is: Does the Briere signing damage the building toward the cup window with our young core? I would say no. The term is short, the money is reasonable, and Briere will bring some leadership and veteran knowledge to the young guys who will be in the window. I have no problem with the Breire signing.

Your reply might be that Briere's ice time prevents important development of youth. And that is a risk, I agree. But I can see him accepting a 3rd line role if required in year 2. Unless he's a total *******, which I doubt.

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On D we only have 2 players over 30.
That's possibly 2 too many. Although Marky might be one of those older D that just becomes like excellent Cognac, so with him I make an exception. We will see this year.

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Well in 3-4 years the cap is probably going to be well over 70m. Also if we are competing for the cup for those 3-4 years I don't really care if it causes some problems down the road. Unless he becomes Gomez bad you can always trade him, and being overpaid 2-3m is not the end of the world especially if we can get other players at a discount. I mean you could look at it like Pacioretty & Clarkson for less than 10m which even in 3-4 years will be good.
I cannot disagree more. You have not accepted yet that in the NHL now almost all players over 30 are mostly useless. Especially crash bang style players. If Laffs had picked up a 25 year old, I'd be worried. Clarkson is done in 2 years. He's too old.

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Question for you guys: How do you think this team performs with a Carey Price playing to his potential?
Very ****ing well indeed.

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post

For those who don't understand this concept......this is why we signed Briere. He didn't cost us any assets and is a stop gap between now and then to help keep us competitive. It really is that simple.
Yes it is really that simple, and there is no need to freak out about it. Habs still have to compete every year, building or not, and DB will help us next year at least. I'm actually interested to see how he does, I think it will be fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post

One of his main tasks here has been to clean up the mess left by his predecsssors (bad seeds, salary cap destruction) and establish a winning culture, a long term project and making sure we get players who want to play here and show up every night
I agree. And I think Habs are turning toward a winning culture. Youth will do that. And the Players are not stupid. They can tell the difference between being on a team that is improving and building, and a team that is drifting.

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07-20-2013, 01:59 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by charlie View Post
I think we have forgotten another very important piece in building a true competitor. That is an elite coach and staff. You don't win with crappy coaching we have seen that for too long.
Well done on bringing up an important question. Personally, I worry about Therrien's intelligence. I do like him though, he is passionate, and he brings energy and enthusiasm to this young team. He also defends his players, management rule no. 1.

It is well known on this board that I think NHL coaches are glorified cheerleaders. The 86 Habs were essentially coached by Gainey and Robinson for example.

But when and if we become very good, the last thing we need is an idiot who pisses the players off.

I don't mean a coach that scares the players. That's fine, see Scotty Bowman. I mean an idiot that players don't respect. And a coach that will not help Habs in the first serious push they must make for the cup, after 20 years, within the next 3 years.

For now, Thierry is fine by me. He loves the game, and he seems good with the kids. When things get serious in 2015, that is a different question.

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07-20-2013, 02:24 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
MB has been the preacher of slow rebuilds, solid draft picks, safe trades and cautious contracts since he arrived too keep expectation of crazy fan and crazier media low. He knew he wouldn't be able to sign any big name via UFA without over massif over payment, the team isn't one player away from the cup and even if that player was available it would mean to get rid of a equal value some where else... He says these thing so the day (deadline or FA) that he doesn't sign or move he can say he is staying the course. but it doesn't matter want he says since it doesn't mean he isn't trying to hit it out of the park.
In professional terms, it is called the art of lowering expectations. I also used to do that with potential girlfriends, so that they did not expect a superman architect by day, cool and evil bank robber by night. Which is what every single girl wants. Every single one. Trust me.

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07-20-2013, 03:37 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Well the poster I responded to claimed maybe they didn't want to sign with us at all which comes down to selling the team to the player. But I agree money talks. For all the flak T.O gets it's still only basically 1m difference between him and Briere. If we are going to overpay for someone might as well get one that addresses a need and hasn't already started to decline.

I don't want to turn this into a Subban thread, so you can read my posts in that thread. Suffice it to say that Subban was already a #1 D so was worth 5m even if he didn't improve at all. Worst case you end up doing what Boston did with Seguin.
It's for SEVEN years, Clarkson will be making 7 Mil in 16/17 and 7 Mil in 17/18... the guy scored 30 ONCE, and got over 40 points ONCE...

when Clarkson will get his 7 Mil per from TO, Briere (among others) will cost 0 to the Habs...

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07-20-2013, 03:42 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
In professional terms, it is called the art of lowering expectations. I also used to do that with potential girlfriends, so that they did not expect a superman architect by day, cool and evil bank robber by night. Which is what every single girl wants. Every single one. Trust me.
I'll make the easy bet, you work in a bank or have a "bank related" job. And huh, what you're saying (girls) you can apply it to any field.

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07-20-2013, 05:48 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
LOL life's too short to get bogged down in what's 'implied'.

The OP seems to feel that MB is not ballsy enough. Pretty ballsy to hold your ground while your rising star defenceman sits at home holding out for more money than is being offered.
Life is never too short to say what you mean properly. Either you are an articulate person who wants to convey something meaningful, or you are a moronic tard who just spews words 'cause he's still locked in the buccal stage.

Pick carefully. Life is too short to make toughtless mistakes.

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