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Top 20 Flyers Prospects, #4

View Poll Results: 4th best Flyers prospect?
Nick Cousins 17 15.32%
Anthony Stolarz 14 12.61%
Shayne Gostisbehere 73 65.77%
Jason Akeson 0 0%
Petr Straka 1 0.90%
Tye McGinn 0 0%
Oliver Lauridsen 3 2.70%
MA Bourdon 1 0.90%
Kyle Flanagan 1 0.90%
Frederic Larsson 1 0.90%
Valeri Vasiliev 0 0%
Marcel Noebels 0 0%
Mark Alt 0 0%
Brandon Manning 0 0%
Taylor Leier 0 0%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-20-2013, 08:54 PM
  #26
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
How do you NOT have MAB in there? He's actually proven to be able to play at the NHL level in a very good capacity. Personally, I don't think MAB should be considered a "prospect" anymore but he is included in this list.
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07-20-2013, 09:01 PM
  #27
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Ghost is absolutely not a "blue chipper". Guy's a middle-of-the-road NHL prospect with moderate upside. Certainly good value for where he was selected though.

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07-20-2013, 09:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Palm Isle View Post
Ghost is absolutely not a "blue chipper". Guy's a middle-of-the-road NHL prospect with moderate upside. Certainly good value for where he was selected though.
...

Honestly, you seem to hold the definition of "bluechip" as a 1st round player. You can't hold yourself to that standard. Many top-tier NHL athletes were selected outside of the 1st.

You can find top notch goaltenders anymore.
Most top notch defensemen are found in the first three rounds.
Most top notch forwards are found in the first one and a half rounds.

Gostisbehere certainly has some significant upside, and it's a great sign that he keeps getting better. Most of those "bluechip" guys you're alluding to end up as solid top 4 defensemen or top 6 forwards. Gostisbehere right now projects to be a solid top 4 defenseman.

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07-20-2013, 09:35 PM
  #29
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Well, a top 4 defenseman assuming he doesn't start to regress. The kid is really good. I put him far more easily among the bluechips in our pool than Cousins.

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07-20-2013, 10:13 PM
  #30
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If Ghost is a blue-chipper, then there are easily 100+ blue-chippers across NHL systems. That is setting the bar very low.

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07-20-2013, 10:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
If Ghost is a blue-chipper, then there are easily 100+ blue-chippers across NHL systems. That is setting the bar very low.
I agree, but how can someone like Laughton be a bluechip prospect then when his potential isn't any higher than Gostisbehere's?

Gostisbehere has done nothing to persuade you that he'll start to regress or that he will stagnate.

Laughton has the same story, the only difference being that he's done it at the NHL level. He doesn't have the offensive upside that Gostisbehere has. Neither does Morin.

Another thing to point out, at this point Gustafsson still hasn't completed the number of necessary games to be a true "non-prospect" even though he really isn't one anymore. Do you consider him a bluechip?

How do you define a bluechip? Their potential to be a top line forward or a top pairing defenseman?

I think that's sort of shallow.

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07-20-2013, 11:12 PM
  #32
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Hey guys,
Long time Flyer fan here. Grew up in SW Ont, and moved to AB (smackdab in between CGY and EDM). Anyways, I do like the top three posted, but I am a big fan of Oliver Lauridsen. I'd almost go as far as to rank him over Gus (I've never really been enamoured with Gus' play, especially the small things) I was just wondering about everyone elses thoughts on him. Maybe I just haven't seen Lauridsen play enough, but am hoping he'll get top pairing with the Phantoms. That's if there a choice between being the 7th D-man or AHL playing time.

Keep up the good discussions guys, it always makes an interesting read!


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07-20-2013, 11:16 PM
  #33
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Hey guys,
Long time Flyer fan here. Grew up in SW Ont, and moved to AB (smackdab in between CGY and EDM). Anyways, I do like the top three posted, but I am a big fan of Oliver Lauridsen. I'd almost go as far as to rank him over Gus (I've never really been enamoured with his play, especially the small things) I was justt wondering about everyone elses thoughts on him. Maybe I just haven't seen Lauridsen play enough, but am hoping he'll get top pairing with the Phantoms. That's if there a choice between being the 7th D-man or AHL playing time.

Keep up the good discussions guys, it always makes an interesting read!
This Oliver Lauridsen hype is unreal. He won't ever be a better defenseman than Gustafsson.

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07-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #34
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Gostisbehere might not be big, but he's got that wiry strength as shown in his shot and some of the open ice hits he makes. There's a guy in Ottawa that everyone said was too small to play in the NHL. Four years later he won a Norris. Now I'm certainly not projecting Gostisbehere to Karlsson, but they have a lot of similarities. It's hard not to get excited about his future.

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07-21-2013, 01:05 AM
  #35
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I agree, but how can someone like Laughton be a bluechip prospect then when his potential isn't any higher than Gostisbehere's?
Laughton is a better player, for starters.

My starting point for a prospect is a young hockey player who compares highly favorably to his peers. Laughton is arguably NHL-ready even though he just turned 19 (and is one of only 5 players from his draft year to have already played in the NHL). Ghost, at age 20, is not considered close to NHL-ready and has no credentials that I am aware of that put him amongst the top handful of players born in 1993. My basic premise is that most of the best players born in a given year will continue to be the best players born in that year as they age. Then, after enough development, your peers become NHL veterans, rather than other prospects. The notable players who deviate from this pattern are the busts and the late-bloomers. Unfortunately the former are more common than the latter.


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Gostisbehere has done nothing to persuade you that he'll start to regress or that he will stagnate.
I would say that it's up to Gostisbehere to show that he's substantially deviated from the development path that made him a 3rd round pick just a year ago. It'll take more of a sustained track record before I am convinced he is this kind of rare bird. If you say that there are roughly 30 blue-chippers born in a given year, that means Ghost has already jumped close to 50 prospects from the 2012 draft based on one strong season of college play.


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Originally Posted by CS View Post
Another thing to point out, at this point Gustafsson still hasn't completed the number of necessary games to be a true "non-prospect" even though he really isn't one anymore. Do you consider him a bluechip?
No. He's never compared that favorably to players the same age as him, but by the same token he has done well to start holding down a spot in the NHL by the age of 24. And I would consider Ghost much closer to Gus at age 20 than he is to Laughton at 19.


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Originally Posted by CS View Post
How do you define a bluechip? Their potential to be a top line forward or a top pairing defenseman
You have to be at least a top-50 prospect, for starters. I would say top-50 is at the liberal end. 30-40 is probably a better number. Blue chip denotes extremely high relative value. That value comes from standing high above your peers.

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07-21-2013, 01:13 AM
  #36
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Why is Bourdon on the list? He will be 24 when the season starts and has 45 NHL games. We are going to have a tough time choosing a spot for him. He looked decent during his NHL run. On the flip side, he's 24 and has a really awful history with concussions.


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Old
07-21-2013, 01:16 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Gostisbehere might not be big, but he's got that wiry strength as shown in his shot and some of the open ice hits he makes. There's a guy in Ottawa that everyone said was too small to play in the NHL. Four years later he won a Norris. Now I'm certainly not projecting Gostisbehere to Karlsson, but they have a lot of similarities. It's hard not to get excited about his future.
Karlsson was also in the SEL by the time he was 17 and identified by scouts as one of the top 1990-born players by the time he was 18. He was already becoming a productive NHLer by the time he was Gostisbehere's age. So they might not be as similar as they seem to you.

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07-21-2013, 02:44 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
There's being pessimistic & then there's being a complete homer. This post falls under the latter.

Btw he was drafted in the 3rd round on his second year of being draft eligible. I don't know many players that are drafted like that & quickly turn into a blue-chipper after a good year of hockey.

He may turn into a blue-chipper but its way too premature right now to call him one like its a definite.
What was so homerish about that? Besides calling him a blue chipper, everything I stated is pretty realistic/sensible.

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07-21-2013, 03:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Karlsson was also in the SEL by the time he was 17 and identified by scouts as one of the top 1990-born players by the time he was 18. He was already becoming a productive NHLer by the time he was Gostisbehere's age. So they might not be as similar as they seem to you.
Physically...

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Old
07-21-2013, 08:25 AM
  #40
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The Flyers consider Ghost a blue chip prospect, so I don't think the middle-rung description is accurate.
They didn't sign him, so no they don't.

Flyers sign their self-prized prospects ASAP.

That's not to say he isn't a good prospect, I think they should have signed him. But that's this team's record.

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07-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #41
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They didn't sign him, so no they don't.

Flyers sign their self-prized prospects ASAP.

That's not to say he isn't a good prospect, I think they should have signed him. But that's this team's record.
Just because they didn't sign one of their "top tier prospects" means they don't value him as one? This doesn't really make much sense. Much goes into signing a player, not just the Flyers want to sign you so ink that paper young man. They are letting him develop and not rushing him. There is no need to rush to sign him since we have two more years(I believe) to get him under contract.

Everybody, I am just repeating what the Flyers are saying, they believe he is a "top tier defensive prospect". I used the wrong word blue chipper by mistake, but there is no arguing that the Flyers think this kid has the potential to be a really good player. He has all the tools to be a #1, I won't let him being drafted in the 3rd round or not being signed yet change my views on the subject. Especially when the Flyers very own writer for their website has said it before(and there is really no reason for the Flyers to lie about this)

Let him develop properly and attend college until he is ready. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but after this season(college season) I am sure we will all see him in the AHL and with a new ELC with the Flyers.

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07-21-2013, 12:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
They didn't sign him, so no they don't.

Flyers sign their self-prized prospects ASAP.

That's not to say he isn't a good prospect, I think they should have signed him. But that's this team's record.
The Flyers usually sign their self-prized prospects that are in the CHL ASAP. It's a different ball game with NCAA because you can't sign them & still have them play there. Gostisbehere also stated himself that he wants to finish out his four years & get his degree so the Flyers may be honoring that by not trying to push him to sign.

I agree that people are getting a little carried away with the hype though.

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07-21-2013, 12:48 PM
  #43
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they didn't sign him, so no they don't.

Flyers sign their self-prized prospects asap.

That's not to say he isn't a good prospect, i think they should have signed him. But that's this team's record.
JVR? Ghost said he wanted to finish college. I'm pretty sure they will let him respect that. He's going for engineering which is pretty f'ing hard. It's not some stupid ass major where the guy is taking it just to play hockey like alot do.

While the hype might have gotten out of hand, kinda weird for the Ghost hate. The guy has shown NOTHING that shows he is regressing. He is constantly improving and his defense is 10 fold what it was before he was drafted. If anything we should be excited he is improving.

WAYYYY to many people stare at where players are drafted. Seems like the story of Ghosts life though. During the draft was taken in the 3rd and people didnt know who he was and thought he was too high. During the WJ camp people didnt know who he was and thought he was just a body but instead made the team and was doing great till the suspension.

Now some think hes just an average prospect. Good, let them think that. Just like people thought the rest of the stuff in the past.


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07-21-2013, 12:59 PM
  #44
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JVR? Ghost said he wanted to finish college. I'm pretty sure they will let him respect that. He's going for engineering which is pretty f'ing hard. It's not some stupid ass major where the guy is taking it just to play hockey like alot do.
From everything available to us, vanRiemsdyk is the prime example that the Flyers push someone to sign. After the Draft was a lot of talk about him going to Brampton instead of New Hampshire, after his freshmen season they tried to sign him, I think there were quotes from Holmgren/Pryor saying it would be better for his development to leave college and sign with the Flyers.

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07-21-2013, 01:02 PM
  #45
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From everything available to us, vanRiemsdyk is the prime example that the Flyers push someone to sign. After the Draft was a lot of talk about him going to Brampton instead of New Hampshire, after his freshmen season they tried to sign him, I think there were quotes from Holmgren/Pryor saying it would be better for his development to leave college and sign with the Flyers.
Exactly. If Im not mistaken though he wanted to stay but they forced his hand greatly. I dont think its fair though to say that its the same for every NCAA player though.

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07-21-2013, 01:05 PM
  #46
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JVR? Ghost said he wanted to finish college. I'm pretty sure they will let him respect that.

While the hype might have gotten out of hand, kinda weird for the Ghost hate. The guy has shown NOTHING that shows he is regressing. He is constantly improving and his defense is 10 fold what it was before he was drafted. If anything we should be excited he is improving.

WAYYYY to many people stare at where players are drafted.
It's kind of tough to gauge because usually the Flyers don't have one of their top prospects playing in the NCAA.

IIRC with JVR they didn't even want him to go UNH in the first place, they wanted to sign him & have him head to the OHL. Then they tried to sign him again after his first year & send him to the AHL but he wanted to stay an extra year at UNH.

JVR was a lot more of high-end prospect at that time than Gostisbehere is at this point. JVR was also easier to get a read on being a forward. JVR was also dominant in the NCAA from day 1, there was no way in hell he was going to stay for four years.

Gostisbehere had a good year in his second year in college, an extra year there won't hurt (I think he signs after this year despite what he says now).

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07-21-2013, 01:13 PM
  #47
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It's kind of tough to gauge because usually the Flyers don't have one of their top prospects playing in the NCAA.

IIRC with JVR they didn't even want him to go UNH in the first place, they wanted to sign him & have him head to the OHL. Then they tried to sign him again after his first year & send him to the AHL but he wanted to stay an extra year at UNH.

JVR was a lot more of high-end prospect at that time than Gostisbehere is at this point. JVR was also easier to get a read on being a forward. JVR was also dominant in the NCAA from day 1, there was no way in hell he was going to stay for four years.

Gostisbehere had a good year in his second year in college, an extra year there won't hurt (I think he signs after this year despite what he says now).

Eh, JVR also didnt play one season in the NCAA when he was drafted. Ghost already committed to Union and we dont know if they did ask. At the time though he was 19 turning 20. Honestly, Ghost seems dead set on playing 4 years there.

Also note: Im not comparing JVR and Ghost. More so comparing the NCAA route.

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07-21-2013, 01:40 PM
  #48
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Eh, JVR also didnt play one season in the NCAA when he was drafted. Ghost already committed to Union and we dont know if they did ask. At the time though he was 19 turning 20. Honestly, Ghost seems dead set on playing 4 years there.
He said he would be tempted to sign if they offered him a contract. I gotta think he signs when his season is over. Not that he plays in a bad league, but someone as talented as him needs to be challenged.

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07-21-2013, 02:23 PM
  #49
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Physically...
There's nothing special about Karlsson's size. That's like saying you're excited about a prospect because he has Chris Pronger's skating ability or Joe Thornton's shot.

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07-21-2013, 03:12 PM
  #50
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There's nothing special about Karlsson's size. That's like saying you're excited about a prospect because he has Chris Pronger's skating ability or Joe Thornton's shot.
C'mon dude, think a little. I said they had some similarities in their game. You went on about what leagues they were playing in so I replied they were similar physically. Comparing players physically does not just mean stature. Physical tools are also included.

They are both undersized guys with wiry frames. They are plus skaters (Karlsson is a notch above, one of the best in the league when healthy). They both have very good shots despite their slender builds. Karlsson has a wicked wrister and a pretty good slapper to boot. Gostisbehere as we have seen has a bomb of a shot as well. They have the ability to lug the puck from end to end. Karlsson had troubles in his own end early in his career and has become more than respectable in that regard. Gostisbehere seems to be on the same path.

Now as I said in my original post I am not projecting Gostisbhere to be Karlsson, that would be foolish of me to even suggest that. All I said was they have a lot of similarities in their game and their physical tools. He could be a poor man's Karlsson of some sort if everything pan's out.

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