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How to improve the PP?

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Old
07-20-2013, 01:28 PM
  #26
Jabroni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
If you're a right handed shot and your coach tells you that you're playing the right point why is it your responsibility to correct his mistake? After reading everything we've read about Torts I'm sure if someone did that they'd be on the bench and their career on the Rangers PP would be over. That's on the coach.
Because a good PP employs rotation among the entire unit. Torts receives blame, but so do the players.

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07-20-2013, 01:30 PM
  #27
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no girardi on the pp problems solved!!!!!

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07-20-2013, 02:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jabroni View Post
Because a good PP employs rotation among the entire unit. Torts receives blame, but so do the players.
If you're a right handed shot and John Tortorella tells you you're playing the right point than you're not going to arbitrarily take over the left point position. That's what I'm talking about. You're talking about movement once the puck has dropped. I'm talking about placing players in the right positions before the play has even started. Our coaching staff was incapable of doing that. Nothing this coaching staff did regarding the power play last season made any sense. It's the one area of the game where Torts deserves every ounce of criticism he gets. I'm not blaming Sullivan because I haven't seen much evidence outside of HFBoards that Sullivan was the sole master of the power play on this team and even if that were the case Torts still has final say.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's how John Tortorella coached the power play.

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07-20-2013, 02:46 PM
  #29
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Practice one timers.

I wanted Newell Brown for a reason, he gets it.
Quote:
“Teams are so fast to get into the shot lanes these days,” Brown continued, “that if you can't take one-timers, if you aren't in position to take one-touch passes and move the puck quickly to shooters and shoot off the pass, you're at a big disadvantage.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...#ixzz2ZcIvelx6

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Old
07-20-2013, 03:18 PM
  #30
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Movement.

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Old
07-20-2013, 03:22 PM
  #31
Hellion
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How to improve the pp? Remove richie, insert zucc on pp1

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Old
07-20-2013, 04:23 PM
  #32
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take boyle and girardi off the pp. pointmen should be moore stralman mcdonagh and dz. if richards comes back to form he could play point. nash cally step zucc brass and kreider/hagelin should be the forwards. boyle should not be on the pp.

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07-20-2013, 04:30 PM
  #33
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I think Brass should QB the first unit with Stralman there to take one timers. Just an idea.

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07-20-2013, 04:52 PM
  #34
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Old
07-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #35
Jabroni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
If you're a right handed shot and John Tortorella tells you you're playing the right point than you're not going to arbitrarily take over the left point position. That's what I'm talking about. You're talking about movement once the puck has dropped. I'm talking about placing players in the right positions before the play has even started. Our coaching staff was incapable of doing that. Nothing this coaching staff did regarding the power play last season made any sense. It's the one area of the game where Torts deserves every ounce of criticism he gets. I'm not blaming Sullivan because I haven't seen much evidence outside of HFBoards that Sullivan was the sole master of the power play on this team and even if that were the case Torts still has final say.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's how John Tortorella coached the power play.
I agree with this entire post. I think I just misunderstood what point your were making.

I believe it was the coaching staff as you mentioned plus the lack of rotation. Girardi over pretty much anyone was another decision I didn't understand.

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Old
07-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #36
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HFNYR: "You're Hired"

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Old
07-20-2013, 06:15 PM
  #37
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One mentality that will need to change under a more offensively available and dynamic system is the one where we go out there with a "PP Plan" but as soon as it doesn't work, we just stand around with our hands down our pants and cycling the puck hoping someone does something amazing or something amazing happens.

PP is for taking advantage of the extra man and extra space and less about executing specific plays. If we can transition away from always trying to get at a certain situation and just had a different mentality where we moved the puck and rotated the personnel for the purpose of creating time and space and seams and finding an open man, we'll have an actual 2 minutes of PP as opposed to the first 30 seconds of trying to gain zone entry and being foiled followed by 90 seconds of playing with a mentality where creativity, smooth passing, and offensive plays is absent from the players' mentality.

Whatever Sully had going and whatever Torts didn't have going obviously isn't what a power play is. Those two orchestrating the PP is like an Italian trying to make Mexican food or a vet trying to treat humans or a pathologist who does autopsies trying to cure a living person.

There are good and bad power plays in this league and then there are power play situations that are treated as a 5 on 5 where we are given the luxury of gaining easier zone entry. The latter is what Torts and Sully created.


Last edited by Cresto: 07-20-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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Old
07-20-2013, 06:56 PM
  #38
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Fitzy- Yeah, but the big problem for us really is just getting set up. That's the big challenge for a PP in the NHL nowadays. You describe some functions of effective PP work really well, but it's not those parts that is hard to figure out nor implement really.

I will try to illustrate it and use the PP setup we ha early in the year:

1. We have gained the zone and gets controll of the puck. Richards passes the puck to Nash. We are not in perfect controll and the PKers overload. The PKers are in (). < indicates left shots and > right shots. The • is the puck.

----------------------------------------
------------NET-(D)-(D)-•<Nash
----Cally>-----<Gabby-(F)------
---------------------------------(F)--
----------------------------------<BR
------------<MDZ-------------------

This is how it's done nowadays. Extreme pressure on the puck from the box when you get a chance.

2. Nash is pressured really hard but manage to bank the puck of the boards back to BR. It takes 0.5 sec for BR to get controll of the pass from Nash.

---------------------------------------
---------------NET--(D)---<Nash
----Cally>--(D)<Gabby----------
------------------(F)----------------
-----------------------------(F)-----
-------------<MDZ---------•<BR--

3. BR can pass the puck to MDZ or Nash. He since Nash is really pressured, he goes to MDZ. MDZ is a left handed shot so no matter what it takes a sec for him to execute anything else than a redirection pass.

MDZ can go to Cally or back to BR, and try a low percentage pass through the box to Nash.

---------------------------------------
---------------NET----------------
-Cally>-(D)-<Gabby-(D)--------
------------------------------<Nash
------------(F)---------(F)-------
-----------•<MDZ----------<BR--

When is it supposed to get dangerous?

The PK box get a step on us and just follows through.

We have no sling passing option where we get away from them.

We have no playmaker who just can freeze the PKer coming at him.

It's not about finding a way to take advantage of being one more player on the ice. It's a way of freezing the box and exposing them for cheating by overloading on one side of the ice.

Let's look at one of the better PPs.

--------------------------Riberio<-
---------------NET--(D)---------
------------(D)MaJo--------------
---AO>------(F)-----(F)•<Backstrom
--------------------------------------
---------------Green>-------------

Backstrom got the puck and the PK box overloads on him. Within two sec he can pass the puck to the right shooing Green who just drags it to the right shooting AO for a one timer.

He can also:
1 Pass the puck to Green for a one timeer.
2 Pass the puck to AO for a one timeer.
3 Pass the puck to Riberio who can do 1 and 2 above.
4 Beat his man 1 on 1 and take it to the net.
5 Pass to Riberio who takes it to the net.

With all those options, and especially that sling option where AO can fire away from the other side of the rink with 2 sec a PK box will think twice before overloading.

It's as simple as that.

My point is just:
How do we get away from the overloading PK box without a right handed PPQB???

When BR is all alone as the only forward on the ice who can freeze a PKer, how are we supposed to handle the overloading PK box?

We all know the result.

So are there ZERO OPTIONS to the above set up?

Sure, many. Bu they all more or less render one or two of the few great PP players we have useless.

OPTION 1. "MIRROR"
Set up on the other side of the ice. Live on a left handed PPQB instead. We have MDZ and supposedly McD too.

Stepan with the puck, the box overloads on him. He can pass the puck to MDZ who can move it across the ice in a hurry.

------Cally>------------------------
-----------------NET---------------
-Step>•-(D)---(D)----------<Nash
---------(F)-------------------------
-------------(F)--------------------
--<McD/MDZ------------<BR--

Downside:
1. We have tried this. Stepan has quite frankly been pretty mediocre at running a PP.
2. MDZ is not a great PPQB.
3. Richards is not a one time triggerman.
4. Nash is not a one timer trigger man.
5. Cally is worthless as a playmaker and marginalized in this set up. We have no other right shooting playmaker down low to compliment Step...

Richards and Nash are the good PPers we have on this team, we can't marginalized them. The rest we have aren't better than top 25 even if the set up makes sense...

OPTION 2.
Take Richards off the point and put him down low. Try to run things more down low than around the blueline.

-----------------------Brass/Zucc<-
---------------NET--(D)---------
------------(D)<Nash--------------
---Cally>------(F)-----(F)•<Richards
--------------------------------------
---------------Girardi>-------------

We used this setup with Nash in the corner instead of Zucc/Brass last season for stints. But they were still pretty weak with the passes and not very dangerous when actually executing.

The downside is that Nash gets a smaller role with Zucc/Brass behind the net...


Last edited by Ola: 07-20-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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Old
07-20-2013, 07:13 PM
  #39
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The Washington 1-3-1 was fascinating to me, and worked because Riberio and Backstrom are excellent playmakers, Green is a threat to shoot, and Ovechkin is a right handed shot on the left side. I see that PP unit as more a product of Oates understanding everyone's strengths, and developing a PP that worked with them.

The way to beat a high pressure PK is easier said than done. Crisp, precise passing. You have to have players on the same page as each other, and no one making a mistake.


To use a soccer analogy, look at Barcelona. No one tries to high pressure them, because they can pass it quickly and dangerously, and shred you. All it takes is something quick and unexpected; a behind-the-back pass, a shot intentionally wide of the net, or the patented Cally goal mouth pass play, and the high pressure system breaks. It's tough, I'll give you that. But it's a home run deal in that while it kills teams that can't move the puck quickly, if you execute the right combination you have a guy with a great chance wide open in front of goal.

The problem is that MDZ handled the puck like a grenade, and Girardi didn't have the mobility to help the PP at all. He was basically a stationary option that doesn't help at all. There is a reason dmen like Semenov, who had an amazing shot, don't play the PP in the NHL. It requires movement.

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07-20-2013, 07:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
The Washington 1-3-1 was fascinating to me, and worked because Riberio and Backstrom are excellent playmakers, Green is a threat to shoot, and Ovechkin is a right handed shot on the left side. I see that PP unit as more a product of Oates understanding everyone's strengths, and developing a PP that worked with them.
And all it took was a simple adjustment for the Rangers to completely shut it down. I don't think that system of Oates' is going to be as effective next year after what the Rangers did to it. Unless they adapt and more people start shooting the puck, that is.

As for the Rangers, a lot of good suggestions in this thread. What I'm curious about is how the coaching staff is going to be able to get the team past the psychological roadblocks the team faces on this. Maybe a little success is all they need to clear it up. Maybe a fresh voice can do it all on it's own. Maybe it's drill, drill, drill.

It was the players who didn't execute, not the coaches, and there isn't a clear reason why. These things are unpredictable. We don't even really need a great powerplay. A decent one would do wonders.

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Old
07-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #41
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The Caps lost Ribeiro, too. I think that'll hurt them more than people realize on the PP.

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07-20-2013, 07:35 PM
  #42
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Tawnos- You make it so easy on yourself by saying we only need a decent PP.

We can have a decent PP. Torts put a decent PP on the ice, run by Zucc and Brassard.

As a 100% DIRECT concequent of Nash and BR not having goto roles on the PP, both players stats goes down the toilet and they face a ton of heat.

You more or less loose your top end ability on this team in BR and Nash. We have a good roster, but those two needs to be a part of it.

You gain sooo much if you could get BR and Nash into prominent roles on the PP.

There are a ton of its and buts that people can say in relation to the above, but I don't see how you get around them.

Yeah, get a right shooting PPQB...

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07-20-2013, 07:41 PM
  #43
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The PP run by Zucc and Brassard was better, but still inconsistent. Obviously, Nash does need to be a big part of this and possibly Richards too. I don't disagree with any of that.

But my post was more about psychology. How do you get these guys to believe that their powerplay is going to work? They clearly haven't believed that for years now.

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Old
07-20-2013, 07:56 PM
  #44
Kris Chreider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
It's a mentality issue, not a personnel issue. Teams that have success on the power play have a positive attitude. The Rangers go out there and try not to make a mistake for two minutes.

When Quinnipiac struggled on the power play in years past, they adopted an umbrella.

They put three guys across the point. One central defender with decent vision and a big shot, and two mobile forwards on either side. They then put two big boys in front of the net.

The key was communication. The point men would rotate the puck around. The opposite umbrella forward would try to sneak down the boards when the puck was away from him. The two forwards near the net would spread to the boards if they wanted to move the puck down low and keep the defense honest, but would immediately collapse on the net when they felt a shot was going to be taken. Here is how this would stack up in the NYR personnel.

First unit

Zuccarello-Moore-Nash

Callahan Boyle
(Net)

Second unit

Del Zotto-Richards-Stepan

Pouliot, Player B
(Net)

Kris man, we are on the same wavelength.


The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 4 characters.

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Old
07-20-2013, 08:00 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by moore is new mac View Post
no girardi on the pp problems solved!!!!!
He was being misused. I wouldn't have a problem with him as the RH triggerman, at the left circle. But Torts for most of the season would use him as the QB with Moore, or as the only defenseman on the unit. Against Boston, he started taking one timers and shooting, and it worked. He looked noticeably better.

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07-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #46
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Wow Brassard is getting underrated in this thread.. He made some crazy good passes last year and was real good on the PP.

I don't know why PPL want to have Richards and Del Zotto on the point on the same unit. Both can't shoot it.

Cally has been our leading PP scorer2 years in a row, he's a lock.

Nash can dangle and has got a decent shot, he's a lock.

McD/Stralman on the left point (Stralman can actually score from a slapper unlike MDZ). McD got that underrated passing skill, great skater too, our stagnant PP needs mobility.





Unit 1:

Cally - Steps - Nash

McD/Stralman - Brassard




Unit 2:

Kreider - Moore (wins faceoffs, works hards, can skate unlike Boyle) - Richards/Zucc

Del Zotto/Moore - Zucc/Richards

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Old
07-20-2013, 11:31 PM
  #47
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I used to be envious of the Canucks PP, not in general, but how they gained the zone without fail, every single time. The drop pass right before the PK's blue line. How many PP's did the NYR completely squander due to this sort of incompetence? We're not a great offensive team, not in the near future. A good PP (and PK for that matter) are going to be crucial for this group.

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07-20-2013, 11:35 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
He was being misused. I wouldn't have a problem with him as the RH triggerman, at the left circle. But Torts for most of the season would use him as the QB with Moore, or as the only defenseman on the unit. Against Boston, he started taking one timers and shooting, and it worked. He looked noticeably better.
i wouldnt want him in the pp simply because we have better options, mcd staal dz stralman moore and richards all have better shots from the point.

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07-20-2013, 11:56 PM
  #49
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Richards needs to not hesitate on letting a bomb go from the top of the umbrella when he has a lane. And especially getting one timers off. People forget he has a very good slap shot and a good one timer too, something not many players on this team have.

I think if he comes to camp in great shape this year and he can get his game back to where it was, combined with the fact that we have a new coaching staff, our PP has a good chance to be revitalized. But, personally, I think the most important factor is Richards. When he's on his game, he has the ability to slow the game down to his pace and take over. As disappointing as his point output in his first year was, most of us forgave him because we actually watched the games. We saw him taking over games and controlling the flow of games with his play. To me, that's what was most troubling this past season. Not his point output, but the fact that he just looked like any other player out there, with no semblance of the player who could take over a game and control the pace, like was for every other season in his career. That was the most troubling.

I still believe that the success of this team depends on two people. Lundqvist and Richards. We need both of them to be on their A game to succeed. People wanted to toss Richards away, and with good reason, but I still believe he is our most important forward.

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07-21-2013, 12:44 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post

To use a soccer analogy, look at Barcelona. No one tries to high pressure them, because they can pass it quickly and dangerously, and shred you. All it takes is something quick and unexpected; a behind-the-back pass, a shot intentionally wide of the net, or the patented Cally goal mouth pass play, and the high pressure system breaks. It's tough, I'll give you that. But it's a home run deal in that while it kills teams that can't move the puck quickly, if you execute the right combination you have a guy with a great chance wide open in front of goal.
This, so much this. I really am surprised one touch passes are not used more in the NHL. If you imagine a PP being played by soccer players you can see how they would completely destroy the other team with proper passing, and vicious one timers.

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