HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Arbitration hearing dates for Gunnarson and Fraser have been set

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-18-2013, 02:47 AM
  #76
Leafsin2014*
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I think it absolutely is that easy. We found him in the minors, if pro scouting tried hard enough they'd find another. These kind of guys come out of the woodwork every year.
Nonsense! That's why we haven't had a guy like him in years. Many teams would snap him up in an instant after last season.

Leafsin2014* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:51 PM
  #77
Northernguy10
Registered User
 
Northernguy10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
People call him replaceable.

Find me another guy with his nastiness, toughness, and willingness to block shots and stick up for his team-mates? It's not that easy boys. This guy plays a simple but effective game and does so in limited minutes. I feel like we're talking very small number difference right now.
Agreed. Plays within his limitations and gives them a toughness they were lacking for years on the back end. He is worth the going rate a 3rd pairing D gets.

Northernguy10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2013, 01:55 PM
  #78
Northernguy10
Registered User
 
Northernguy10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
This, Fraser did all this while being all while be a +18.

It's nice having him on the ice, being the only defenseman in a long time actually throwing people out of the crease, with the intentions of fighting anyone who shows any reluctance. Take him off the D, and we have one soft, very unintiminating defense. If Rielly stays, put Fraser with him, to make sure no one takes liberty on him.
Correct

Northernguy10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2013, 01:51 AM
  #79
Tyler Biggs
Go Leafs Go!
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,873
vCash: 500
Sign Fraser Nonis! He was a responsible, effective own-zone D throughout the year.

Tyler Biggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2013, 04:38 AM
  #80
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
I just hope they agree before arbitration because,i would hate to see a arbitrator force Nonis to walk away from some absurd award. Gunnarsson doesn't really fit Carlyles brand. just sayin.
He doesn't even drive possession on his own. The guy spent significant time away from Phaneuf and looked pretty unspectacular as well. I wouldn't mind him as a glue guy who can play with Franson on the mid-pairing.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 03:43 PM
  #81
WestCoastLeafs
I need a new slogan
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Can't remember quite how arbitration works now. Do the two sides submit their figures in advance, or on the date of the hearing? And once that (initial?) hearing has taken place, can the two sides still negotiate, or is it immediately in the arbitrator's hands?

WestCoastLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 05:07 PM
  #82
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 5,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Well said. Granberg is a better version of Gunnarsson. He is also a pretty decent passer. Rounding out our bottom pairing with these kind of defenceman is a good thing.

I must say, Gunnarsson is being overrated here. Our best defenceman in carrying it out of our zone is Phaneuf. Yes, Gardiner is more creative, while Franson can make crisp long-range passes, but Phaneuf is the most dangerous guy on the transition.

My criticism about Phaneuf is that he is not a puck rusher. It's actually not a criticism, because he is more of a Stevens-class defenceman. He's not very creative in that regard, but seriously, he's miles ahead of Gunnarsson. I'd rather sign Phaneuf for $7-8 million than keep Gunnars @ $4 million. One can be replaced while the other cannot.

Franson received more defensive responsibilities as the season went by. He was the one covering Fraser and Gardiner on the defensive side and I think we need to resign him. If for some reason we want to shed cap space, he is going to have a lot of trade value.
Pick one side or the other....Either Dion is the best dman at carrying the puck out of the zone we have or he is not!

You state that his weakness is " he is not a puck rusher" rushing the puck....is this not the same as carrying the puck out of our zone?

You are correct that he is not a good puck rusher ....and no where near the best at carrying the puck out of our zone....as even you have admitted that his weakness is he is not a puck rusher.

diceman934 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #83
Quares27
Registered User
 
Quares27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
He doesn't even drive possession on his own. The guy spent significant time away from Phaneuf and looked pretty unspectacular as well. I wouldn't mind him as a glue guy who can play with Franson on the mid-pairing.
Well you also have to consider that he was carrying that hip injury all season. He could barely pivot when he came back from it.

Quares27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 06:25 PM
  #84
Brown Dog
Registered User
 
Brown Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,219
vCash: 500
Any word on what these guys are looking for? I can't imagine Fraser is asking for more than about $1 million. Maybe the sticking point is term?

Brown Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 06:30 PM
  #85
PemIceKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
People call him replaceable.

Find me another guy with his nastiness, toughness, and willingness to block shots and stick up for his team-mates? It's not that easy boys. This guy plays a simple but effective game and does so in limited minutes. I feel like we're talking very small number difference right now.
Love his game. Slow at times though. Worries me big-time.

PemIceKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 08:21 PM
  #86
Caesium
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,028
vCash: 1040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Dog View Post
Any word on what these guys are looking for? I can't imagine Fraser is asking for more than about $1 million. Maybe the sticking point is term?
You don't go to arbitration over term because you can only get a 1 or 2 year contract from it. I forget the details on how exactly 1 or 2 year is determined. I might look it up later.

Edit: The other party determines the term in an arbitration hearing. So if the player files, the team gets to pick 1 or 2 years for the contract length. If the player is 1 year away from UFA status, only a 1 year contract can be selected.


Last edited by Caesium: 07-20-2013 at 08:27 PM.
Caesium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 08:37 PM
  #87
Caesium
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,028
vCash: 1040
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastLeafs View Post
Can't remember quite how arbitration works now. Do the two sides submit their figures in advance, or on the date of the hearing? And once that (initial?) hearing has taken place, can the two sides still negotiate, or is it immediately in the arbitrator's hands?
Evidence is provided at the hearing, I don't think each side comes in with a money amount listed. The only thing close to that is pointing to another player's contract who they feel is comparable to that player.

I'm actually reading how the comparables are selected and it's pretty interesting. Apparently on June 5th the NHL and the NHLPA come up with a list of players who will be used as comparables for arbitration hearings. I suppose this is so a team can't point to, say, a Norris winning defenseman as a comparable. the NHLPA will argue that that player is outside of the norm and can't be used as evidence in an arbitration hearing.

This way of picking comparables is interesting to me because it feels like it stacks the deck in the player's favour when filing for arbitration. They can look at that list and have a good idea of what an arbitrator should award them before filing for arbitration.

Caesium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 08:48 PM
  #88
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Pick one side or the other....Either Dion is the best dman at carrying the puck out of the zone we have or he is not!
Why don't I pick neither? He's a lot better than Gunnarsson in that regard. His zone-entry ability is actually quite effective. It's just not Karlsson.

Quote:
You state that his weakness is " he is not a puck rusher" rushing the puck....is this not the same as carrying the puck out of our zone?
Pronger isn't a puck rusher either nor was Kaberle. It's called making, long crisp passes to move the puck out of the zone. Those two did it extremely well.

Phaneuf is a very solid passer. That was known even before he was drafted.

Quote:
You are correct that he is not a good puck rusher ....and no where near the best at carrying the puck out of our zone....as even you have admitted that his weakness is he is not a puck rusher.
Yes, he's probably not better than Gardiner or Rielly and would limit our transition game on paper. Similarly, I wouldn't place Pronger in the same level as Niedermayer in that regard due to his poor skating ability. Keep in mind, Pronger was a far more superior puck mover than him.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 08:57 PM
  #89
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quares27 View Post
Well you also have to consider that he was carrying that hip injury all season. He could barely pivot when he came back from it.
He was never better than Phaneuf when it came to zone-entry. I recognize his middle pairing potential, but we're comparing two different breeds here.

Phaneuf isn't just very productive entering his zone, but he produced 49 points on a low scoring team. He is effective even if he isn't a smooth skating defenceman like Scott Niedermayer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buntek View Post
This. I remember watching the Bruins series, and specifically watching Gunnarsson, and it was a hard thing to do. He was awful.

The problem with Gunnarson, is that he should be a 4/5 guy, and to pay this donkey 3 million, trade him to the highest bidder. He's a tweener. He's not offensively gifter and he's not a shut down guy either. I agrwe, he is easily replaceable
I'd give him a mid pairing role with Franson. Gardiner should be given a top pairing role where he shares the transition zone work with Phaneuf. We are a very high tempo team, and after shutting down scoring lines, our aim should be to maximize our scoring chances.

Gardiner would add a creative component onto the pairing that Gunnarsson would never be able to fulfill. The reason why Kostka was used had a lot to do with his AHL-level creativity when moving the puck. His problem was his inability to think at the NHL-level. The Holzer experiment didn't make sense and neither would Scuderi as his partner.


Last edited by The_Chosen_One: 07-20-2013 at 09:57 PM.
The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2013, 11:04 PM
  #90
Mikeyg
Smackin' haterz
 
Mikeyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,966
vCash: 500
fraser 900k 2 year max.

Mikeyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 12:16 AM
  #91
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
You post a contradiction in a post and the above is your response...you stated two very opposite opinions in the same post... Now Pronger is a a far superior to Niedermayer as a puck mover....WOW!
He is probably one of the best puck movers in the damn game. Again you're mixing up puck moving with puck rushing. There are plenty of defenceman who move the puck without a mobility component: Franson does it, and Lidstrom was often the best in that regard.

Quote:
I sure hope you mean moving a whole lot of pucks during practice when the pucks are moved to a different area of the ice.
Boring.

Quote:
Kabs was not a puck rusher....you must be kidding right...
You're mixing up quarterback with a puck rusher. You can be good QB without rushing the puck into the offensive zone. The prototypical puck rusher, like Bobby Orr, but Tomas Kaberle (like Pronger) made excellent tape-to-tape passes to forwards that had access to open scoring lanes.

Quote:
Dion is not even the best passer on our back end....in fact he is at best 3rd...behind Franson and Gardiner..
Before I address that. Phaneuf is a better passer than that overrated scrub Gunnarsson. He doesn't even assert himself physical in the offensive zone to contribute into that zone. You're dealing with a marginal top 4 defenceman who is also so due to his stronger defensive game.

As for passing comparisons, how is Gardiner a better than Phaneuf? I may be willing to agree with Franson, because he his puck moving acumen does not have a mobility component. On the other hand, Gardiner is definitely a more creative puck rusher, but he is definitely not an effective passer. Flashiness is not equivalent to better passing. More important, both defenceman were a lot more sheltered than Phaneuf as well so I don't we could be comparing effectiveness that easily.

Nevertheless, it's all on-paper assessments. I could argue that this direction is more worthless than raw statistics. In the end, on-ice performance is what matters and Phaneuf is, by far, the most defenceman in the offensive zone. He produced 49 points in a low-scoring Calgary system as a rookie.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.