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Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-20-2013, 08:54 PM
  #476
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I'd say people just want an excuse to complain, no worries, P.K. will get his big contract and people will start complaining about his contract as soon as he'll have a bad stretch.

You're naive, people and intelligence in the same sentence ?
Not every poster here is a teenage drama queen, but yes, I agree, a lot of people love to complain here. I'm not one of them.
The PK deal isn't the end of the world, it would have been nice to save some cash in order to have more to spend elsewhere, the main reason why I'm against it is because Bergevin made PK miss the beginning of the season, alienated him from the team, so he could force a seriously below value contract on him. I think that was completely stupid.

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07-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not every poster here is a teenage drama queen, but yes, I agree, a lot of people love to complain here. I'm not one of them.
The PK deal isn't the end of the world, it would have been nice to save some cash in order to have more to spend elsewhere, the main reason why I'm against it is because Bergevin made PK miss the beginning of the season, alienated him from the team, so he could force a seriously below value contract on him. I think that was completely stupid.
I don't like how that soap opera played out during January and his contract is going to cost the Habs an extra 2 to 3 mil on the cap. But if they sign him to an 8 year extension this summer and we end up with him signed for 10 years instead of the 5 or so we would have had if we given him a longer term deal this winter I'll be very happy. Get him in this uniform for a long time

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07-21-2013, 03:27 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
I don't like how that soap opera played out during January and his contract is going to cost the Habs an extra 2 to 3 mil on the cap. But if they sign him to an 8 year extension this summer and we end up with him signed for 10 years instead of the 5 or so we would have had if we given him a longer term deal this winter I'll be very happy. Get him in this uniform for a long time
there was soap opera played by MB or P.K... only by fans.

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07-21-2013, 06:40 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The Bergevin deficit is growing regularly.

4 million to Briere.
3.5 million to Desharnais.
An extra 2 million to Subban (you say 3 million).

The Bergevin Deficit is closing in on 10 million dollars.

When Bergevin was hired, he admitted that he's "not a numbers guy", and I shuddered, and my worries are being confirmed with time.
Yeah I'm sure there's not a 'numbers guy' looking at these contracts

MB's just handing them out like candy without a second thought

Just because you can add numbers and read charts on capgeek.com, does not make you a capologist. There are so many things the average fan doesn't even consider when it comes to the cap that GM's and their associates do

It's easy to sit here and add numbers when you don't have any consequences to your decisions (or lack their of), it's a whole other when your sitting in that chair

But your example of Briere (who I don't have an issue with personally) and Desharnais (which I was never a big fan of) are perfect examples of why cap space is so overrated. Teams that have money like the Habs, are gonna spend it regardless


Last edited by 417: 07-21-2013 at 06:52 AM.
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07-21-2013, 07:40 AM
  #480
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Yeah I'm sure there's not a 'numbers guy' looking at these contracts

MB's just handing them out like candy without a second thought

Just because you can add numbers and read charts on capgeek.com, does not make you a capologist. There are so many things the average fan doesn't even consider when it comes to the cap that GM's and their associates do

It's easy to sit here and add numbers when you don't have any consequences to your decisions (or lack their of), it's a whole other when your sitting in that chair

But your example of Briere (who I don't have an issue with personally) and Desharnais (which I was never a big fan of) are perfect examples of why cap space is so overrated. Teams that have money like the Habs, are gonna spend it regardless
Complete nonsense.

You don't need to be a mathematician to be a capologist, ideally, the GM should be the capologist, and should have basic arithmetic skills.

It's not that hard a job, just numbers and rules. Though -- Bergevin does come from the management tradition in Chicago that didn't know about qualifying offers.

Bergevin hands out dollars like candy without a second thought -- to everybody except Subban.

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07-21-2013, 07:43 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Complete nonsense.

You don't need to be a mathematician to be a capologist, ideally, the GM should be the capologist, and should have basic arithmetic skills.

It's not that hard a job, just numbers and rules. Though -- Bergevin does come from the management tradition in Chicago that didn't know about qualifying offers.

Bergevin hands out dollars like candy without a second thought -- to everybody except Subban.
You talk nonesense.

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07-21-2013, 08:22 AM
  #482
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PricePkPatch,

Don't have blind faith in the GM.

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07-21-2013, 09:14 AM
  #483
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I don't believe having underpaid players is regarded as the way to build a championship team. I would say overpaying is much more significant in consideration to the salary cap. With his sense of humor, I'm sure Bergevin must have joked about "if I had known..." but I doubt he regrets anything. It was the right move at the time.

I would expect the discussions about Subban's new contract to start mid-season and am hoping for a 7-8 year term.

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07-21-2013, 09:14 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
PricePkPatch,

Don't have blind faith in the GM.
Nop. I don't mind you criticising MB, and when you do so with proper arguments, I'll be happy to argue back and try to keep an open mind.

But when you get talking about how being a real capologist required only base arithmetic, I knew you were talking nonsense and needed to be called out.

Your knowledge of the job of GM seems straight out of NHL 13 gamefaqs guide. Understand that you come off as utterly ignorant when you claim you "only need to add the numbers".

Just like a professional drawer only needs to make lines.

Or a professional hockey player only needs to handle the puck.

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07-21-2013, 09:19 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Complete nonsense.

You don't need to be a mathematician to be a capologist, ideally, the GM should be the capologist, and should have basic arithmetic skills.

It's not that hard a job, just numbers and rules. Though -- Bergevin does come from the management tradition in Chicago that didn't know about qualifying offers.

Bergevin hands out dollars like candy without a second thought -- to everybody except Subban.
The capologist needs to know more than "Durr we have 3 mill in space, if we sign him for 4 mill that's a no-no... THAT'S A NO-NO UNCLE BERGEVIN"

They also need to know the rules about cap circumvention, who's eligible for what. The partila NMC/NTC how they work and a list of other things.

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07-21-2013, 09:22 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
The capologist needs to know more than "Durr we have 3 mill in space, if we sign him for 4 mill that's a no-no... THAT'S A NO-NO UNCLE BERGEVIN"

They also need to know the rules about cap circumvention, who's eligible for what. The partila NMC/NTC how they work and a list of other things.
Like i said, numbers and rules. Goes without saying...

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07-21-2013, 09:34 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Like i said, numbers and rules. Goes without saying...
An understanding of projected increase in league revenu so you can anticipate future cap space.

A good knowledge of impeding contract ends. Projection of your prospect promotions. Relation with your players' agents.

Etc. etc.

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07-21-2013, 10:12 AM
  #488
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Damned Flyers, lowballing Couturier with a bridging contract...

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07-21-2013, 10:21 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Damned Flyers, lowballing Couturier with a bridging contract...
Facetiousness aside, a 30 point forward is the exact type of guy you should take a hard line with. If he gets frustrated and eventually leaves, it's no big loss.

Unlike Subban.

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07-21-2013, 10:40 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Damned Flyers, lowballing Couturier with a bridging contract...
Yea because he's their go to guy like subban is for the habs...


For someone who writes a blog and watches so much hockey, its surprising how u cant make difference between situations; given that MB used bridge contract for domesticating purposes while flyers "lowballed" him because they can barely fill the roster with their terrible cap management.

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07-21-2013, 10:46 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Damned Flyers, lowballing Couturier with a bridging contract...
You've clearly showed the inability to properly assess these youngsters as your mention of MaxPac and Price being on the same level of PK.
Couturier is nowhere near where PK was.

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07-21-2013, 10:48 AM
  #492
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But but...Couturier shut down Malkin a year ago over a 59 minute sample size...

Selkes forever!

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07-21-2013, 10:58 AM
  #493
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"lowballing" Subban was never about his quality as a playrr. It was about MB's following his doctrine of bridge contract.

It might bite us in some cases (Subban) and it might save us Myer-like situation. Either way, breaking the doctrine will always leave the possibility for future RFA to compare themselves with Subban.

If you create a precedent, you open the door to mind games. If you make sure everyone has the same treatment, no one should take it personal.

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07-21-2013, 11:01 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Facetiousness aside, a 30 point forward is the exact type of guy you should take a hard line with. If he gets frustrated and eventually leaves, it's no big loss.

Unlike Subban.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Yea because he's their go to guy like subban is for the habs...


For someone who writes a blog and watches so much hockey, its surprising how u cant make difference between situations; given that MB used bridge contract for domesticating purposes while flyers "lowballed" him because they can barely fill the roster with their terrible cap management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You've clearly showed the inability to properly assess these youngsters as your mention of MaxPac and Price being on the same level of PK.
Couturier is nowhere near where PK was.
Here are three examples of people taking things too seriously, not being able to recognize what this smiley means:


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07-21-2013, 11:11 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here are three examples of people taking things too seriously, not being able to recognize what this smiley means:

You clearly missed the first part of my response, which qualified it as such.

Also, your position has been quite clear, so despite the smiley, there is some truth to what you say.

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07-21-2013, 11:14 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
"lowballing" Subban was never about his quality as a playrr. It was about MB's following his doctrine of bridge contract.

It might bite us in some cases (Subban) and it might save us Myer-like situation. Either way, breaking the doctrine will always leave the possibility for future RFA to compare themselves with Subban.

If you create a precedent, you open the door to mind games. If you make sure everyone has the same treatment, no one should take it personal.

Creating an all encompassing strategy, without taking in account the skill level of certain players is fairly foolish.

This is business. If a player isn't good enough to deserve a long term contract out of his ELC, that's his problem. If he takes it personally, he's probably not going to survive in this league.

However, simply assuming that the bridge contract is the best way to go, no matter what, is really a weird concept IMO.

Most players that sign long term out of their ELC and that are elite like Subban, turn out fine.

There's always the Myers example, but I'd say (and I know I am not using this idiom properly) it's the exception that proves the rule. That and Myers is not on the level of the Subbans, Toews' and Kanes of the world.

It's not like Chicago, the very successful franchise in recent years where we poached Bergevin from, adheres to this rule.


Last edited by Dr Gonzo: 07-21-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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07-21-2013, 12:56 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here are three examples of people taking things too seriously, not being able to recognize what this smiley means:

"Hey, imma give some stupid opinion, add sarcasm smiley to it incase someone tries and argue it" - habsterix


What was the point of that post? That those situations have no similarities? No ****.

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07-21-2013, 01:11 PM
  #498
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Sarcasm sometimes goes right over some people's head.

To get back on topic though, Bergevin knew he would have to pay more and was willing to do so when he'll have more flexibility with the cap and instated a way of doing business. He did the right thing with the bridging contract.

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07-21-2013, 01:15 PM
  #499
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U dont really know how to apply sarcasm. Sarcasm is used as tool to express a given point u are trying to make. Care to explain what point u tried to make?

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07-21-2013, 01:16 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
there was soap opera played by MB or P.K... only by fans.
Well honestly, I think it was the media not MB or PK. And the fans eat that **** up. The media spews the crap of how far they are apart, that PK thinks he's bigger than the team, that MB is trying to teach him a lesson, that they should trade him, etc. It was negotiations between two parties that the media blew out of proportion and fans react and exaggerate it even more. So I don't blame either party, I just want a long term contract done, and the sooner the better.

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