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Old
07-21-2013, 01:22 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
We waited too long to rebuild, and we got screwed by the half season this year: =Half rebuild.
This season may put unrealistic expectations on the team heading into next season. But I'm a believer in the winner and loser mentality. So this past regular season is good for our young players. But yeah, over a full season our wall would have hit like it did at the end of the year and who knows where we'll end up at.

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07-21-2013, 01:27 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post

But he's too important to us right now and we need to continue moving forward after the strong season this year.
This year was not a strong season. It was a half season where we overachieved.

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Trading Plekanec right now would be a massive shakeup to the team.
Yes it would be. And that's what Habs need to contend.

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07-21-2013, 01:32 AM
  #178
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Yes it would be. And that's what Habs need to contend.
Yes because trading away your best center will make you a contender

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07-21-2013, 01:39 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Scuderi made sense... Pittsburgh did well getting him back.

Replace Briere with Ryan and our roster would've looked so much better. Only question is: what would we have had to give up?
You and I are of the same view on this, Bergevin has done nothing to bring us closer to contention. He's been mediocre at best at managing the cap, and he has not nailed any UFA signings or trades.

Some might say that 1 year is not enough to evaluate the man. To which I answer, if he finally pulls off that strategic trade four months into the season, where we deal from a position of strength to shore up a position of weakness, then I will retract my criticisms and align with the praise column. However, right now he has done nothing, except for the long overdue acquisition of a heavyweight enforcer (Parros) that quite frankly any good GM would have done.

He has traded Dany Kristo for Christian Thomas, which is a totally useless trade. Bergevin is obsessed with acquiring small offensive forwards, it's like he has a small man syndrome.

To get Ryan, we would have had to give up the equivalent of Silfverberg, a 1st rounder, and Noessen... or equivalently Beaulieu, Collberg, and a 1st. That's a lot and many on this forum have rightfully pointed out that it would have been a bad trade for the Habs as we can't afford to give up all that. Well, we'd be in a better position to give up assets if we had a pro-active GM that accumulated assets. Rather than resign Desharnais to a bizarre 4-year contract, for example, they should have dealt him to a contender, as both Eller and Galchenyuk were exceeding all expectations. Rather than acquire Briere, we should have hoarded the cap space so that we can grab another team by the balls and take in a bad contract in exchange for a small favour... or make a predatory RFA offer sheet to one of our division rivals, such as Cody Franson or Mark Fraser.

He's not doing anything though. There's no activity. If his only vision is to build through the draft he should step aside and let Timmins be the GM.

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07-21-2013, 01:41 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
This season may put unrealistic expectations on the team heading into next season. But I'm a believer in the winner and loser mentality. So this past regular season is good for our young players. But yeah, over a full season our wall would have hit like it did at the end of the year and who knows where we'll end up at.
I do by the way completely agree with the winning mentality approach. NHL hockey players are competitive as hell, that is how they got there. So in that sense, last year was good for the kids. They won a lot, and deserved the wins.

I just wish we had rebuilt earlier and had a couple more horses. But the race begins now, with the horses we have.

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07-21-2013, 01:47 AM
  #181
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Im all in for what bergevin is trying to do, well except the desharnais and briere contract.

He wants to build the team throught the draft, well its going to take a while before we see if it going to work, people need to learn some patience and humility for when the **** hits the fan.

I gotta remember that too if we get pounded again by the leafs

Just my opinion

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07-21-2013, 01:48 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
Yes because trading away your best center will make you a contender
When you get a big tough young top 4 D man, a first round pick, and have Chuckie stepping in and improving on Pleks in 2015, yes, it does help make you a contender.

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07-21-2013, 02:14 AM
  #183
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At this point in time, I prescribe to keep it smart and low key. This team may have finished 2nd in the East last year, but the last quarter + playoffs was very concerning and reminded me how far we actually are from contending.

We have a solid prospect pool that should hopefully start paying dividends soon, but I agree that outside of Galchenyuk, Subban and Price this team doesn't have another star asset as of right now. Let's wait it out for a year and two and then try to get something big in the UFA market, which while expensive is the fastest way to adding another key piece. Speaking personally, Vanek would be someone I would LOVE to target.

For now, let the youngsters develop, and for crying out loud take Bouillon off the power play.

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07-21-2013, 03:16 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
WRONG FIT , NOT A $$$$$ ISSUE

we have 3 better centers , he has no fken role on this team , too small and not enough jam on the top 6 , no game for the bottom 6 ... plain and simple

if we were 4 years ago and had Pleks , a finsihed Koivu , Robert retirement Lang and Max I stink Lapierre down the middle , fine sign him til u find better

WE HAVE BETTER ...LET HIM WALK
then you trade him for whatever, he's found money, we
signed him as a ufa. you don't let assets walk away for nothing.

Man, you sound like an angry hormoned teenaged girl

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07-21-2013, 03:40 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
then you trade him for whatever, he's found money, we
signed him as a ufa. you don't let assets walk away for nothing.

Man, you sound like an angry hormoned teenaged girl
every team does, and more often that fans think.

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07-21-2013, 04:08 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
every team does, and more often that fans think.
obviously. it's usually the literally useless players that are let go for nothing. theo peckham is a recent one that comes to mind

dd doesn't fall into the theo peckham school of 'can barely play in the NHL'. that kind of player you don't let go for nothing

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Old
07-21-2013, 05:30 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Fair enough LG. But look at it this way. I agree that Bergy very likely tried to make deals, and the returns asked for were to steep. So he did not make the moves. Given our recent past (gomez cough) I am glad of that at least.

BUT: And this is where I completely agree with you: Bergy HAS to grow some balls at the deadline and next summer, and be willing to move pieces like Pleky so that we CONTEND in 2014-5. My clock is one year later than yours, but that's all.
I respectfully disagree. IF.....we are thinking of contending, then Plekanec is an important piece, a two-way center with experience who still has his legs.

The reason to trade Plekanec would be if we were rebuilding, barring of course the usual caveat about "overpayment" (meaning that anyone is tradeable if one gets a return one can't refuse).

If we're talking about a ballsy move to trade vets, I would look at Gorges (if Tinordi has stepped in and Emelin re-signed) or Markov (if Beaulieu continues to develop). Of course we have Moen who might interest some teams, and even a guy like Prust could be moved for a good return if his market value shot up in 2012-13 and we find enough other toughness. Finally, Gionta won't fetch much if not healthy, but I might move him early next season in return for size with some skill, if he got off to a hot start and we also think we have found a decent checking RW.

Pleks, to me, is a keeper if we want to contend before his contract is up.

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07-21-2013, 05:36 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
We had a pretty good record against tough teams like Toronto & Boston. And because the schedule was condensed you could argue that it's just as tough. Also no team in the East had to go up against the "big bad" West so we all had the same advantages, do you really think we are the only team that benefits from not having long grueling road trips out West?

Teams that start off hot and then run out of steam are usually either riding a players hot streak or lady luck. Teams that get regularly outshot but still win games are the ones that are primed for a second half drop. We consistently out played the opposition last year so it was unlikely to have happened to us (Depending on injuries of course).
Nothing in this post is remotely based on fact.....

Toronto beat us in the season series for starters. I clearly said that the reason that the exclusion of the West from our schedule was a greater benefit to us than any other team was because we were the smallest team. It is all about matchups and we may have matched up with the West worse than any other team in our conference.

There is also the fact that we lost 10 of our final 15 games.......I would say that is a pretty ominous sign of things to come.

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07-21-2013, 06:11 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
obviously. it's usually the literally useless players that are let go for nothing. theo peckham is a recent one that comes to mind

dd doesn't fall into the theo peckham school of 'can barely play in the NHL'. that kind of player you don't let go for nothing
or Clowe, Clarkson, MaCarthur, Ribeiro, Iginla...

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07-21-2013, 06:19 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Nothing in this post is remotely based on fact.....

Toronto beat us in the season series for starters. I clearly said that the reason that the exclusion of the West from our schedule was a greater benefit to us than any other team was because we were the smallest team. It is all about matchups and we may have matched up with the West worse than any other team in our conference.

There is also the fact that we lost 10 of our final 15 games.......I would say that is a pretty ominous sign of things to come.
well, for starters you have forgotten one of the two teams he/she named, coincidence it's a team we "won" last season serie ?

also, your thing about us vs western teams, its called speculation, not fact.

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07-21-2013, 06:59 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
or Clowe, Clarkson, MaCarthur, Ribeiro, Iginla...
christ man... clowe and iginla were traded at the deadline to contenders so no, they were not let go for nothing. macarthur stayed with the leafs because they were in the playoff picture. that leaves clarkson who keeping was an obvious mistake but lou is apparently notoriously loyal to his players, and ribeiro, whom washington kept because, again, playoffs.

everything has a context

so, yes it happens, doesn't mean that have to let it happen if you can help it. that's what i obviously meant by "you don't let assets walk away for nothing"

like your avatar btw

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07-21-2013, 07:12 AM
  #192
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After a first year full of hope with the acquisition of Brandon Prust, a great draft, a 1st place finish, nominations for the Calder and Norris trophies, expectations were high as the target seemed to be more accessible than ever. The second year start leaves me scratching my head with a huge project as a 1st pick, a small forward on the decline as UFA and a top 6 prospect traded for another small winger.

It's hard to imagine Bergevin's vision of a future winning roster when you have four centers in the line up and you sign one of them for four years despite his small stature and a lack of defensive awareness. Yet, if Desharnais returns to form and starts producing as well as he did a couple seasons ago, we will all praise Bergevin for signing him at $3.5M per year.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bergevin has never thought of trading David so he has to be considered a part of the future. I would have preferred Plekanec/Eller/Galchenyuk, followed by Galchenyuk/Eller/Plekanec for the future center line as I imagine it would have been very difficult to play against any of those three but I guess management doesn't see it that way. I believe the odd man out will be decided during, or at the end of, next season and Therrien will run with Desharnais/Galchenyuk and that one center will serve as bait to provide depth on the wing. Briere is to fill that spot on the wing until a decision is made between Eller and Plekanec.

As for the future, I'd need more moves to figure out where Bergevin is going because drafting for size while trading for small wingers... I don't follow.

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07-21-2013, 07:21 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
christ man... clowe and iginla were traded at the deadline to contenders so no, they were not let go for nothing. macarthur stayed with the leafs because they were in the playoff picture. that leaves clarkson who keeping was an obvious mistake but lou is apparently notoriously loyal to his players, and ribeiro, whom washington kept because, again, playoffs.

everything has a context

so, yes it happens, doesn't mean that have to let it happen if you can help it. that's what i obviously meant by "you don't let assets walk away for nothing"

like your avatar btw
NYR and PIT let them go for nothing.

seems there's a reason for everyone who was let go for nothing, not that I disagree with the reasons but... you should tell to everyone still whining about the fact we didnt trade Souray a few years ago

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07-21-2013, 07:40 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
NYR and PIT let them go for nothing.

seems there's a reason for everyone who was let go for nothing, not that I disagree with the reasons but... you should tell to everyone still whining about the fact we didnt trade Souray a few years ago
That's a dumb thing to say. Last time I checked, you can't trade a player after deadline, and I doubt there was any value in negotiating rights this year.

You are REALLY using this as an argument?

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07-21-2013, 07:43 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
After a first year full of hope with the acquisition of Brandon Prust, a great draft, a 1st place finish, nominations for the Calder and Norris trophies, expectations were high as the target seemed to be more accessible than ever. The second year start leaves me scratching my head with a huge project as a 1st pick, a small forward on the decline as UFA and a top 6 prospect traded for another small winger.
Oh, good grief. Kristo is hardly much bigger than Thomas, and he showed NOTHING in his nine-game stint in Hamilton, while the younger Thomas scored 19 goals in that league.

I predict Thomas to have the better career, even if we never hyped him like a first-rounder for the sole reason that we had no first rounder the year we drafted Kristo.

That the 22 year old Kristo could sometimes (but not always or by a lot) dominate a university league where almost everyone else was younger than him just doesn't impress me THAT much. Thomas scoring goals at an Eller-type rate in the AHL does more for me.

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07-21-2013, 07:45 AM
  #196
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That's a dumb thing to say. Last time I checked, you can't trade a player after deadline, and I doubt there was any value in negotiating rights this year.

You are REALLY using this as an argument?
Of course! They did not re-sign these players, they let them go for nothing, even though they cost precious assets just weeks earlier.

Teams that are bulking up for a playoff push, or a playoff run KEEP their own players and even sometimes ADD pending UFAs to their roster.

So yes, it's totally relevant.

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07-21-2013, 07:56 AM
  #197
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Of course! They did not re-sign these players, they let them go for nothing, even though they cost precious assets just weeks earlier.

Teams that are bulking up for a playoff push, or a playoff run KEEP their own players and even sometimes ADD pending UFAs to their roster.

So yes, it's totally relevant.
But once the season and the playoffs are over, they don't necessarily keep these players. They would cost too much 'cause of their UFA status.

I don't see teams letting players they acquired for a playoff run go to be a notch on the players themselves. It's a temporary buff, nothing else.

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07-21-2013, 08:33 AM
  #198
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well, for starters you have forgotten one of the two teams he/she named, coincidence it's a team we "won" last season serie ?

also, your thing about us vs western teams, its called speculation, not fact.
I mentioned the Leafs because he said that we had a good record against them last season. I was pointing out errors/lies from the post.....why would I waste my time giving him credit for telling half truths?

As far as the western teams go......I used the word "may"........this word is never part of an absolute statement and was clearly presented as speculative but qualified with reason.

Critical thinking people.........try it some time

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07-21-2013, 08:38 AM
  #199
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The second year start leaves me scratching my head with a huge project as a 1st pick, a small forward on the decline as UFA and a top 6 prospect traded for another small winger.
Sorry, but this is full of personal bias. I could easily refer to McCarron, Briere and Thomas in this way:

' MB finally helped address our lack of size by picking up a 6'5" future power forward with his first pick, then in UFA signed a proven playoff performer with great hands, and traded a 23 year old headcase who has yet to score a goal in the pros for a younger sniper who scored 19 goals in his first year as a pro in the AHL.'

Heavily biased as well - about as biased (the other way) as your assessment.

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07-21-2013, 08:43 AM
  #200
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The thing with building through the draft is that it won't work unless you stick with it. After the team is full of good young assets, then you can deal some superfluous futures for immediate help (see Ottawa). We're not there yet and I think it will take at least another 2 years before we are.
I believe we are 2 years,maybe 3 from being cup contenders.Bergy is doing all the right moves,and the most important is patience.

He has not squandered draft picks for stop gaps
He has not gotten into bidding wars for UFA's
He has not traded youth for vets

Sometimes the best move is no move.

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