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George McPhee II

View Poll Results: Do the Caps need a new GM? Fire George, or keep George?
Fire George 80 81.63%
Keep George 18 18.37%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-19-2013, 08:54 AM
  #451
ChibiPooky
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
unfortunately you guys don't get a vote.

but you guys do seem to enjoy talking to each other about how much things suck.
Everybody gets a vote in the poll

And yes, we do enjoy talking to each other about our opinion of our favorite NHL hockey team. That's why we joined the boards. We're entitled to our opinion and you're entitled to yours.

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07-19-2013, 09:12 AM
  #452
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As of right now...I vote keep him. Its too late in the offseason to pull the trigger now.

The leash is short. Its a ECF finals/cup run or your gone Mafki.

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07-19-2013, 10:49 AM
  #453
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I suppose I am not clearly illustrating my point well enough or that it keeps getting brushed over.

Fact is its well documented I wanted George out of here YEARS ago. Fact is I strongly was not in favor of the Cap trap and still blame him for making BB go that route even though its only speculation.

However fact is he WASN'T fired.

Since then I have generally liked his moves. Trading flash for Hannan was strong on paper but didn't work out great. Getting Brouwer. Drafting Wilson and all the little moves he made last year.

The guy is on an UPWARD trajectory in my book.

You have a money pit of a car that you refuse to get rid of over years and years and it sucks. Finally you are getting around to fixing all the problems and NOW suddenly you want to dump it?

At this point I don't care what he did 5 years ago. I don't care that his drafting was atrocious pre lockout. Its the path he is on now. I believe he has slowly put the right idea together.

Its like breaking in a young player and giving him chance after chance only to find he sucks or hasn't developed the way you like. Suddenly the light seems to be turning on for him after years. The lynch mob forms at an inopportune time and decides this player, despite figuring things out, has a poor body of work and wants him out.
What happened years ago is a predictor of what happens today.

I understand your points. It seems you don't understand mine.

It doesn't matter what "course of action" George takes, Bob. The end result is always the same. I fully get that you like this new tact, as I mentioned in the post you quoted. So due to that, you don't see the bigger picture, as I am outlining for you.

You like analogies. Here is one for you.

The same author, who has shown to be a poor constructor of characters, themes, and development, has written 5 books....you loved the first one, due to substance, but the ending sucked. The next 4 have been awful to poor, and have a commonality that just doesn't work. So, you don't like the books, and don't like the author as he just isn't good at his overall craft (he caught lightening in a bottle on that first book, and everyone loved it....best seller as he got lucky telling someone else's story).

Now he writing his 6th book, and its about something you really like, and appreciate. Are you telling me that this author is going to change himself and suddenly become a good author simply because he finally found a topic you like and understand?

I'm guessing NO.

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Old
07-19-2013, 11:27 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
What happened years ago is a predictor of what happens today.

I understand your points. It seems you don't understand mine.

It doesn't matter what "course of action" George takes, Bob. The end result is always the same. I fully get that you like this new tact, as I mentioned in the post you quoted. So due to that, you don't see the bigger picture, as I am outlining for you.

You like analogies. Here is one for you.

The same author, who has shown to be a poor constructor of characters, themes, and development, has written 5 books....you loved the first one, due to substance, but the ending sucked. The next 4 have been awful to poor, and have a commonality that just doesn't work. So, you don't like the books, and don't like the author as he just isn't good at his overall craft (he caught lightening in a bottle on that first book, and everyone loved it....best seller as he got lucky telling someone else's story).

Now he writing his 6th book, and its about something you really like, and appreciate. Are you telling me that this author is going to change himself and suddenly become a good author simply because he finally found a topic you like and understand?

I'm guessing NO.
Just because you fail doesn't mean you will continue to do so. People learn and evolve. At one point Lebron and Steve Yzerman were total chokers ripped apart by any and everyone.

Then they had success and they are hailed as greats.

You can indeed fail, and fail often, and then succeed.

Batman didn't get out of the pit until after multiple tries!! Just because he didn't make it the first couple times doesn't mean he won't ever make it.

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07-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
What happened years ago is a predictor of what happens today.

I understand your points. It seems you don't understand mine.

It doesn't matter what "course of action" George takes, Bob. The end result is always the same..
its the caps. they are who they are and they carry what they carry. I said this way back when the caps were going into their second playoffs with ov. they needed to win then. they couldn't afford to develop slowly as a playoff team because the old demons would be out very quickly for everyone to see.

I know there are some that see no value in the accumulation of pressure that comes to this franchise after each failure is added to the list. IMO the Ov era had a max of three tries before the idea the old history had no effect on the new crew. the 2nd year they lost to the penguins. the 3rd year they blew a 3 - 1 lead to an 8 seed and it was over. they are the caps.

They will need more than just the best team in the nhl to win a cup or advance past the 2nd round. they are going to need fortune to smile on them in an obvious sort of way.

Right now every team in the nhl knows that the caps can be beat in the playoffs because their history gets in their head. the team the have right now is good enough to win a cup. it could be better, but if you got the gm and the juggernaut team that you want, rids, reality still smacks them in the face the first time they get a series lead.

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07-19-2013, 09:29 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
its the caps. they are who they are and they carry what they carry. I said this way back when the caps were going into their second playoffs with ov. they needed to win then. they couldn't afford to develop slowly as a playoff team because the old demons would be out very quickly for everyone to see.

I know there are some that see no value in the accumulation of pressure that comes to this franchise after each failure is added to the list. IMO the Ov era had a max of three tries before the idea the old history had no effect on the new crew. the 2nd year they lost to the penguins. the 3rd year they blew a 3 - 1 lead to an 8 seed and it was over. they are the caps.

They will need more than just the best team in the nhl to win a cup or advance past the 2nd round. they are going to need fortune to smile on them in an obvious sort of way.

Right now every team in the nhl knows that the caps can be beat in the playoffs because their history gets in their head. the team the have right now is good enough to win a cup. it could be better, but if you got the gm and the juggernaut team that you want, rids, reality still smacks them in the face the first time they get a series lead.
Yes and no.

Red Sox
White Sox
LA Kings
Blackhawks
Saints
Bruins

Off the top of my head, those are 5 franchises that were forelorn in some manner, like the Caps. All have won championships in the last 10 years.

I agree that the Caps are in trouble with this current mix. So what do you do? You change the mix. That's all starts at the top, right?

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Old
07-19-2013, 10:01 PM
  #457
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As of right now...I vote keep him. Its too late in the offseason to pull the trigger now.

The leash is short. Its a ECF finals/cup run or your gone Mafki.
i've been seening that since 2009.

when does the real time run out?

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Old
07-19-2013, 10:06 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Yes and no.

Red Sox
White Sox
LA Kings
Blackhawks
Saints
Bruins

Off the top of my head, those are 5 franchises that were forelorn in some manner, like the Caps. All have won championships in the last 10 years.

I agree that the Caps are in trouble with this current mix. So what do you do? You change the mix. That's all starts at the top, right?
both sawx teams you can throw out, since it takes a while in BBall. that being typed, why dont you lay out the GMs on those teams over the past 16 years, and then tell the class how many of the teams listed had the same GM over that time frame?

i'm going to guess here and say none of them.

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Old
07-20-2013, 01:59 PM
  #459
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I agree that the Caps are in trouble with this current mix. So what do you do? You change the mix. That's all starts at the top, right?
Do the caps need a new owner? I don't know. Changing owners hasn't really gotten them to the promised land. I know you meant McPhee, but I don't think changing the general manager is going to change how Ovechkin and Backstrom play.

Told that Ovechkin had a one lone goal in a playoff series, I would have expected that they lost.

Would you support a new gm's first decision being trading Ovechkin?

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07-20-2013, 08:50 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Do the caps need a new owner? I don't know. Changing owners hasn't really gotten them to the promised land. I know you meant McPhee, but I don't think changing the general manager is going to change how Ovechkin and Backstrom play.

Told that Ovechkin had a one lone goal in a playoff series, I would have expected that they lost.

Would you support a new gm's first decision being trading Ovechkin?
thats extreme. We all know a new GM isnt making his first course of action trading Ovechkin.

Backstrom or Green?

Yes, if it made the team better.

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Old
07-20-2013, 09:15 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Do the caps need a new owner? I don't know. Changing owners hasn't really gotten them to the promised land. I know you meant McPhee, but I don't think changing the general manager is going to change how Ovechkin and Backstrom play.

Told that Ovechkin had a one lone goal in a playoff series, I would have expected that they lost.

Would you support a new gm's first decision being trading Ovechkin?
Toews and Hossa just had a mediocre playoffs productionwise. But the Blackhawks have the depth to carry them when the stars are off.

A team should not live and die on one player over a four series playoff season. We have two great players surrounded by mediocrity. And so we have a mediocre team.

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Old
07-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #462
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Toews and Hossa just had a mediocre playoffs productionwise. But the Blackhawks have the depth to carry them when the stars are off.

A team should not live and die on one player over a four series playoff season. We have two great players surrounded by mediocrity. And so we have a mediocre team.
and the Hawks mostly rebuilt the supporting cast from the 1st cup run.

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07-21-2013, 10:21 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Toews and Hossa just had a mediocre playoffs productionwise. But the Blackhawks have the depth to carry them when the stars are off.

A team should not live and die on one player over a four series playoff season. We have two great players surrounded by mediocrity. And so we have a mediocre team.
Patrick Kane was the Hawks leading scorer this season. He outscored Hossa by 23 points. He lead the Hawks in the playoffs and was 2nd in the league during the post season. So, the Hawks "one player" was hitting on all cylinders.

When Ovechkin isn't producing you would hope that Backstrom would pick up the slack. The Caps top 5 in scoring in the playoffs was Green, Ward, Perreault, Backstrom and Chimera in that order. 5pts total from Ovechkin and Backstrom is just not something the Caps can survive very well.

The cap hit for Kane Toews and Hossa is $17.875m. Ovechkin and Backstrom are at $16.238m. Add Ribeiro and the cap hit is $21.2m. That's 7pts combined for the 3.

I probably shouldn't mention that if Hossa had scored 31pts(brouwer had 33pts) and followed with an off playoffs, our board would be rife with demand that he be dumped.

So....is it McPhee's fault that so much of the cap is tied up in those two players?

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07-21-2013, 10:23 AM
  #464
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Gonna have to miss the playoffs before Teddy would be willing to pull the trigger. Could definitely be this year if Laich can't stay healthy.

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07-21-2013, 10:50 AM
  #465
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Patrick Kane was the Hawks leading scorer this season. He outscored Hossa by 23 points. He lead the Hawks in the playoffs and was 2nd in the league during the post season. So, the Hawks "one player" was hitting on all cylinders.

When Ovechkin isn't producing you would hope that Backstrom would pick up the slack. The Caps top 5 in scoring in the playoffs was Green, Ward, Perreault, Backstrom and Chimera in that order. 5pts total from Ovechkin and Backstrom is just not something the Caps can survive very well.

The cap hit for Kane Toews and Hossa is $17.875m. Ovechkin and Backstrom are at $16.238m. Add Ribeiro and the cap hit is $21.2m. That's 7pts combined for the 3.

I probably shouldn't mention that if Hossa had scored 31pts(brouwer had 33pts) and followed with an off playoffs, our board would be rife with demand that he be dumped.

So....is it McPhee's fault that so much of the cap is tied up in those two players?
If you expect two or three players to by themselves win four playoff series then you're going to be disappointed. As we've shown for the past five years.

And that's the problem with Mcphee's idiot belief that we just need to reach the postseason and then its a crapshoot. That would be the case if there weren't teams like Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Ottawa, LA, Detroit etc that aren't playing for a crapshoot. The competition is building a team and a strategy and they'll beat us every year.

Regarding Kane being awesome this year. .. Ovechkin outplayed him in 2009. We lost early because we had one of the worst defenses I've ever seen in the postseason.

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07-21-2013, 12:18 PM
  #466
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Its a ECF finals/cup run or your gone Mafki.
So you're saying he's gone?

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07-21-2013, 12:29 PM
  #467
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thats extreme. We all know a new GM isnt making his first course of action trading Ovechkin.

Backstrom or Green?

Yes, if it made the team better.
sure its extreme. when your core is broken and your lead player has taken it outwardly hardest and scored one goal in the most recent failure....well you did say that you start at the top, right?

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07-21-2013, 12:37 PM
  #468
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If you expect two or three players to by themselves win four playoff series then you're going to be disappointed. As we've shown for the past five years.

And that's the problem with Mcphee's idiot belief that we just need to reach the postseason and then its a crapshoot. That would be the case if there weren't teams like Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Ottawa, LA, Detroit etc that aren't playing for a crapshoot. The competition is building a team and a strategy and they'll beat us every year.

Regarding Kane being awesome this year. .. Ovechkin outplayed him in 2009. We lost early because we had one of the worst defenses I've ever seen in the postseason.
the caps lost to the pens because the defense stunk? ok...I saw them lose their chance in that series elsewhere, but ok

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07-21-2013, 12:41 PM
  #469
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the caps lost to the pens because the defense stunk? ok...I saw them lose their chance in that series elsewhere, but ok
I'd like to hear where exactly. The Pens owned our zone and we couldn't clear/transition to save our lives. It went seven games only because of Varlamov and Ovechkin.

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07-21-2013, 01:18 PM
  #470
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you know...I am old. ive seen every lost playoff series since 1982. I remember the highlights after a while. I remember mostly that the pens won 2 ot playoff games on passes or obviously harmless shots going wide that bounced off caps skates into the net.
maybe that was because the d sucked.

I also remember that varly was awful in game 7.

See...that's how I see that series. they didn't lose because they were horribly overmatched. they lost because they didn't get a big game from their goalie in game 7 which is almost required in the Stanley cup playoffs and they were in game 7 because the pens got two very fortunate bounces. without them, the caps win that series in 4 or 5 games. see...what you leave out while saying the caps were out classed was the fact that the first penguins bounce kept them from falling behind three games to nothing.

I saw a series that could have gone either way. You see something wholey different

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07-21-2013, 01:29 PM
  #471
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you know...I am old. ive seen every lost playoff series since 1982. I remember the highlights after a while. I remember mostly that the pens won 2 ot playoff games on passes or obviously harmless shots going wide that bounced off caps skates into the net.
maybe that was because the d sucked.

I also remember that varly was awful in game 7.

See...that's how I see that series. they didn't lose because they were horribly overmatched. they lost because they didn't get a big game from their goalie in game 7 which is almost required in the Stanley cup playoffs and they were in game 7 because the pens got two very fortunate bounces. without them, the caps win that series in 4 or 5 games. see...what you leave out while saying the caps were out classed was the fact that the first penguins bounce kept them from falling behind three games to nothing.

I saw a series that could have gone either way. You see something wholey different
I assure you you're remembering wrong. Pittsburgh dominated us. Those overtime losses only went that long because of Varlamov.

But regardless, how does 2009 jive with your belief that a couple of stars firing on all cylinders will carry the team to the Cup?

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07-21-2013, 01:45 PM
  #472
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Patrick Kane was the Hawks leading scorer this season. He outscored Hossa by 23 points. He lead the Hawks in the playoffs and was 2nd in the league during the post season. So, the Hawks "one player" was hitting on all cylinders.

When Ovechkin isn't producing you would hope that Backstrom would pick up the slack. The Caps top 5 in scoring in the playoffs was Green, Ward, Perreault, Backstrom and Chimera in that order. 5pts total from Ovechkin and Backstrom is just not something the Caps can survive very well.

The cap hit for Kane Toews and Hossa is $17.875m. Ovechkin and Backstrom are at $16.238m. Add Ribeiro and the cap hit is $21.2m. That's 7pts combined for the
I probably shouldn't mention that if Hossa had scored 31pts(brouwer had 33pts) and followed with an off playoffs, our board would be rife with demand that he be dumped.

So....is it McPhee's fault that so much of the cap is tied up in those two players?
Kane was mediocre until the final game of the WCF. 0 goals his first 6 games. 2 goals his first 15 games. Patrick Sharp 8 goals through that span. He was playing scared through much of it too, which for all his disappointments you can't say about Ovechkin.

And yes, it is McPhee's fault that his 2nd line costs 12.5 million and doesn't have a single player anywhere near Sharp or Hossa caliber. It's his fault that he puts his star players with a guy who can't play the body, can't fight for the puck and can't finish to the point where we can literally see the effectiveness being drained out of that line. It's also his fault that he has our version of Steve Montador penciled into a top 4 role. And it's also his fault that we have a 2.5 million dollar version of Thomas Greiss/Anton Khudobin/Richard Bachmann sitting on the bench.

Of course, if he did anything to make the team not mediocre in any capacity we might end up like the Flyers, so thank god we dodged that bullet. "We like our team" right?

And no, if Hossa scored 31 points in 40 games while battling injuries and wasn't a one trick PP pony that's about to come crashing down to earth this board would probably be more understanding of it.

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07-21-2013, 01:49 PM
  #473
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Just because you fail doesn't mean you will continue to do so. People learn and evolve. At one point Lebron and Steve Yzerman were total chokers ripped apart by any and everyone.

Then they had success and they are hailed as greats.

You can indeed fail, and fail often, and then succeed.

Batman didn't get out of the pit until after multiple tries!! Just because he didn't make it the first couple times doesn't mean he won't ever make it.
Yeah, we 'learned' that Brooks Laich 'evolved' into our 2C and John Erskine 'evolved' into our top 4D. I'd be positively shocked if they don't advance further in the playoffs with those developments. I mean, Feaster 'learned' that Blake Comeau was a 1C with great success did he not.

And Real Life Batman gets his spinal chord completely severed when that asian 'knocks' it back into place and dies in the hole from malnutrition. Which actually seems to be where the Real Life Caps are headed, so there's that.

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07-21-2013, 02:02 PM
  #474
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And Real Life Batman gets his spinal chord completely severed when that asian 'knocks' it back into place and dies in the hole from malnutrition. Which actually seems to be where the Real Life Caps are headed, so there's that.

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07-21-2013, 02:07 PM
  #475
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It all makes sense now. GMGM saw Bruce Wayne go from out of shape paraplegic to capable of pummeling Bane in an MMA fight after doing pushups for 3 months while on a diet of crackers and water. Which, as any bodybuilder will tell you, is super feasible. This led him to conclude that Brooks Laich could go from hobbled 3rd liner to Messier 2.0 and carry us to the cup. All he needs is a little fear of death in him. That's where Ovechkin and the utility cart come in.

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