HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The "Balls or No Balls" thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-21-2013, 09:07 AM
  #201
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Fair enough LG. But look at it this way. I agree that Bergy very likely tried to make deals, and the returns asked for were to steep. So he did not make the moves. Given our recent past (gomez cough) I am glad of that at least.

BUT: And this is where I completely agree with you: Bergy HAS to grow some balls at the deadline and next summer, and be willing to move pieces like Pleky so that we CONTEND in 2014-5. My clock is one year later than yours, but that's all.
I actually would've been okay with him not making a major move. Power forwards (or at least big ones who can score) are expensive. He didn't want to pay the price? Okay, that's fair enough. But getting a shutdown guy isn't a huge cost. Personally, I think we need one.

What's annoying is the Briere signing. It's a signal that we can't win a cup for the next two years and we'll put in some window dressing to show that the GM is "on the case."

It does nothing to help us win and I think actually hurts us (for the reasons I've explained.) Those kinds of moves are what have killed us over the years so its extremely frustrating to see it happen again. If you're going to make a move... make one that will help us win something now or down the road. Don't waste time with this stuff. It's not that I think Briere is a bad player or that he might not bounce back with 60 points... its that he's a bad fit for this team and the 60 points don't really matter. They could be scored by other players. Big winger would've really, really helped. Briere is just more of the same.

Its very simple. The GM should be thinking about cups... that's it. Does this move help us win a cup or not? If it doesn't (and Briere doesn't) then don't do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
I wouldn't. I don't think he helps our team moving forward and gives us the balance we need IMO. If we're moving Plekanec it should be for youth and more than one.

I don't want to see Plek's traded, but I thought if they were going to, this offseason would have been the year to do it with STL. They have a lot of young talent and needed the improvement on C. Now they got Roy and it won't work, but Plek's is a big improvement on him and may have worked before the signing.

But he's too important to us right now and we need to continue moving forward after the strong season this year.
Trading Plecs made sense a while back for rebuilding purposes. Now? Not so much. Galchenyuk's emergence as an 18 year old (certainly sooner than I expected) has fast forwarded the process...

I'd trade Markov, DD, Briere (who was just signed) Gionta... all of them away before Plecs right now. Unless we're going to do a full scale rebuild (something that doesn't make sense any longer) then I wouldn't deal him unless the offer was too good to pass up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
I agree, we missed our opportunity that year with so many UFA's. Not only did we have so many, but they had value and could have completely changed the future of the Habs. Instead we let them walk for nothing and rebuilt through UFA.
It was a total disaster. THAT was a crucial moment for us and we made the wrong decision. 8th was just too important to us... more important than winning cups.

Now, it is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You and I are of the same view on this, Bergevin has done nothing to bring us closer to contention. He's been mediocre at best at managing the cap, and he has not nailed any UFA signings or trades.

Some might say that 1 year is not enough to evaluate the man. To which I answer, if he finally pulls off that strategic trade four months into the season, where we deal from a position of strength to shore up a position of weakness, then I will retract my criticisms and align with the praise column. However, right now he has done nothing, except for the long overdue acquisition of a heavyweight enforcer (Parros) that quite frankly any good GM would have done.

He has traded Dany Kristo for Christian Thomas, which is a totally useless trade. Bergevin is obsessed with acquiring small offensive forwards, it's like he has a small man syndrome.

To get Ryan, we would have had to give up the equivalent of Silfverberg, a 1st rounder, and Noessen... or equivalently Beaulieu, Collberg, and a 1st. That's a lot and many on this forum have rightfully pointed out that it would have been a bad trade for the Habs as we can't afford to give up all that. Well, we'd be in a better position to give up assets if we had a pro-active GM that accumulated assets. Rather than resign Desharnais to a bizarre 4-year contract, for example, they should have dealt him to a contender, as both Eller and Galchenyuk were exceeding all expectations. Rather than acquire Briere, we should have hoarded the cap space so that we can grab another team by the balls and take in a bad contract in exchange for a small favour... or make a predatory RFA offer sheet to one of our division rivals, such as Cody Franson or Mark Fraser.

He's not doing anything though. There's no activity. If his only vision is to build through the draft he should step aside and let Timmins be the GM.
Very expensive for Bobby Ryan. Can't blame the man for saying 'no' if that's really what was being demanded.

As for some of his other moves... not a fan so far. It's early days though, I'm not calling for his head. And on the plus side, he's changed the culture of the team, so that's great.

I want to be fair to MB. The one defense he has I would say is (and he actually deserves some credit for this) that our team did much better than anyone expected last year. When he took the reigns he probably felt like he was coming into a situation where he could rebuild for a year or two, get some high picks at 2013 (one of the deepest drafts ever) and take his time.

Instead we have a great year last year and now it's a question of "do we continue to rebuild or not?" 48 game season, maybe it was a bit of a fluke... I get the problem that he has. Fair enough, stand pat if you wish.

But getting Briere doesn't accomplish anything from any perspective. Doesn't help us rebuild, doesn't help us win a cup, makes us actually smaller and weaker.... so why do it? Rebuilding or not, we need a shutdown guy. So GO GET ONE. That seems like a no brainer to me and shutdown guys are not a rare commodity the way a Power Forward is.

So the jury is still out for me on MB. He's done some good but overall I'm not impressed by what I've seen so far.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 09:07 AM
  #202
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Sorry, but this is full of personal bias. I could easily refer to McCarron, Briere and Thomas in this way:

' MB finally helped address our lack of size by picking up a 6'5" future power forward with his first pick, then in UFA signed a proven playoff performer with great hands, and traded a 23 year old headcase who has yet to score a goal in the pros for a younger sniper who scored 19 goals in his first year as a pro in the AHL.'

Heavily biased as well - about as biased (the other way) as your assessment.
I want to kiss you.

Man, it's about time some people actually try to get a measure of perspective and locked up in their interpretation of events at every seconds.

Perspective, people. Perspective. It doesn't mean I am right and that the other guy is wrong. It means you are willing to consider being wrong in your assessment and use facts to build your opinion, not justify it.

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 09:11 AM
  #203
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansman View Post
I believe we are 2 years,maybe 3 from being cup contenders.Bergy is doing all the right moves,and the most important is patience.

He has not squandered draft picks for stop gaps
He has not gotten into bidding wars for UFA's
He has not traded youth for vets

Sometimes the best move is no move.
Not much patience showed in both the bouillon & DD extensions.

Jumped the gun in both cases & ended up paying a bigger premium on both than he likely would have at end of season.

I'm generally in favor of proactively extending key players, but 1.5M on a 6-7 dman & 4 years for a diminutive player with average skating who has 1 solid season on his record, is not the kind of calculated risks that strike me as schrewd

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 09:21 AM
  #204
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Not much patience showed in both the bouillon & DD extensions.

Jumped the gun in both cases & ended up paying a bigger premium on both than he likely would have at end of season.

I'm generally in favor of proactively extending key players, but 1.5M on a 6-7 dman & 4 years for a diminutive player with average skating who has 1 solid season on his record, is not the kind of calculated risks that strike me as schrewd
I was actually okay with signing DD for 3.5. But four years was too long. The problem isn't so much DD. It's that DD is a smurf surrounded by smurfs.

And adding Briere to a roster that already has DD? Bleecchchh...

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 09:29 AM
  #205
brian70
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Sorry, but this is full of personal bias. I could easily refer to McCarron, Briere and Thomas in this way:

' MB finally helped address our lack of size by picking up a 6'5" future power forward with his first pick, then in UFA signed a proven playoff performer with great hands, and traded a 23 year old headcase who has yet to score a goal in the pros for a younger sniper who scored 19 goals in his first year as a pro in the AHL.'

Heavily biased as well - about as biased (the other way) as your assessment.
If you consider the lack of size an issue to the point of drafting a big prospect in the first round and then turn around and trade for a diminutive prospect, your intentions are not very clear.

As for being bias, I don't see how I could be. Nothing against Bergevin or management.

brian70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 09:43 AM
  #206
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I was actually okay with signing DD for 3.5. But four years was too long. The problem isn't so much DD. It's that DD is a smurf surrounded by smurfs.

And adding Briere to a roster that already has DD? Bleecchchh...
If the four years was too long, I presume you would have preferred two. But two years included ZERO UFA years, so $3.5M was not necessary. We should have either signed him 2 years at about $2.25M, knowing his limitations, or just waited to the end of the year.

The only way I was giving 4 years was for around $2.0M per year so that I had a highly tradeable contract. "You want long-term commitment, you give me a hometown discount."


Last edited by BaseballCoach: 07-21-2013 at 12:14 PM.
BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 09:45 AM
  #207
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
If you consider the lack of size an issue to the point of drafting a big prospect in the first round and then turn around and trade for a diminutive prospect, your intentions are not very clear.

As for being bias, I don't see how I could be. Nothing against Bergevin or management.
Kristo for Thomas was a matter of one smallish skilled forward for another one. That Thomas is a tiny bit smaller but has balls like his Dad doesn't bother me.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 10:28 AM
  #208
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
It's actually a rather simple concept: You have to fill the cupboard to allow the team to trade in a position of strength.

Remember when Gauthier and Gainey were trading draft picks for temporary fixes, rental players who would be gone a few months later? Guys like Moore, Lang, Wisniewski, Campoli, Staubitz, Mara, Sopel, Schneider, Halpern (1st time, Bergevin claimed him off waivers - free - the 2nd time)... Those were draft picks given away that the team couldn't get back.

Bergevin, in not having a 5 year plan like the others had and by wanting to build a contender year-in, year-out, understands that drafting and developing players is key. The day that they need to trade for an impact player, they will have the depth in the prospect pool to sacrifice one of them because they have others in the wing.

For example, they can't trade Plekanec today because they don't have anyone ready to take over his production. Galchenyuk will be in a year or two, and perhaps Eller as well but neither is there yet.

Another example is the Habs are getting deeper on defense when it comes to prospects, but most of them are still too young to contribute and make an impact at the NHL level.

Bergevin is adding to the team's depth and is buying time with a few vets until the young guys are ready. Then and only then will his plan start paying dividends as it takes time to get that wheel in motion.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 10:33 AM
  #209
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Its very simple. The GM should be thinking about cups... that's it. Does this move help us win a cup or not? If it doesn't (and Briere doesn't) then don't do it.
This is such a fan perspective, but in reality is far from the truth.

The GM's job is to run a successful franchise. A cup is gravy, not the only goal.

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 10:38 AM
  #210
brian70
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Kristo for Thomas was a matter of one smallish skilled forward for another one. That Thomas is a tiny bit smaller but has balls like his Dad doesn't bother me.
Since you insist, my post was not a comparison between Kristo and Thomas. It was about management's intentions. If you make your first round draft pick based on the lack of size in your prospects pool, how can you then trade a potential top 6 prospect for a smaller one.

You may feel Thomas has more upside than Kristo. We could also name a few prospects with more upside than McCarron, despite being drafted later. The point is management doesn't seem to be consistent with its logic.

brian70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 10:47 AM
  #211
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
What's annoying is the Briere signing. It's a signal that we can't win a cup for the next two years and we'll put in some window dressing to show that the GM is "on the case."

It does nothing to help us win and I think actually hurts us (for the reasons I've explained.) Those kinds of moves are what have killed us over the years so its extremely frustrating to see it happen again. If you're going to make a move... make one that will help us win something now or down the road. Don't waste time with this stuff. It's not that I think Briere is a bad player or that he might not bounce back with 60 points... its that he's a bad fit for this team and the 60 points don't really matter. They could be scored by other players. Big winger would've really, really helped. Briere is just more of the same.

Its very simple. The GM should be thinking about cups... that's it. Does this move help us win a cup or not? If it doesn't (and Briere doesn't) then don't do it.
Right-on. Basically, the Habs have a major leak and Bergevin responds by purchasing another paddle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Trading Plecs made sense a while back for rebuilding purposes. Now? Not so much. Galchenyuk's emergence as an 18 year old (certainly sooner than I expected) has fast forwarded the process...

I'd trade Markov, DD, Briere (who was just signed) Gionta... all of them away before Plecs right now. Unless we're going to do a full scale rebuild (something that doesn't make sense any longer) then I wouldn't deal him unless the offer was too good to pass up.
I think the timing of our Cup window depends largely on how well our D develop. If Tinordi, Beauieu and Dietz/Ellis/Pateryn look legit -- and I'll bet we'll get a good look at them this season -- we could have a very solid, big, balanced defence by the following season. 2014/15 could be our time. Our D could be our strength, and almost all of it could be homegrown through the draft. If so, Plekanec should be a part of that. He'll still be in his prime, plus the leadership, experience, etc.

That means focusing on our forward depth. We need to get the right player, a real PF. I don't care how, but that's when Bergevin sprouts balls and gets it done. Trade the players you mentioned, add Bourque to the list, sweeten it with one D if necessary. I'll even speak heresy and offer Gallagher to get a star forward. We have to accept that to get someone big we have to give someone big.

The only other option is to get a prime UFA. I don't buy the idea that top UFAs won't come to Montreal. We just have offer enough. Trade away Briere, free up $4M and get the right guy, not just the available guy.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 10:51 AM
  #212
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
This is such a fan perspective, but in reality is far from the truth.

The GM's job is to run a successful franchise. A cup is gravy, not the only goal.
Actually, the typical fan perspective is to be entertained during the 60 minutes of each game, start every season thinking we'll win the Cup, and not be overly concerned with the machinations and long-term strategies. I was like this for a long time. Me, my friends, all of us followed the Habs every year, hoped for the best, watched the playoffs until we lost and then forgot all about it until October.

Analyzing the game behind the game -- like what we do here -- is an atypical perspective of a small % of fans who see what happens in the board-rooms as being as interesting as what happens on the ice.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 10:58 AM
  #213
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
...
Staubitz was a waiver claim.

If I'm not mistaken, then habs trade Wiz for a 7th that could become a 5th if he signed. He signed and the habs drafted Hudon, no ?

You're right the habs need to build the cupboard, but if the cupboard is full of mediocre prospects you won't be able to build a good team and can't trade for good players.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:17 AM
  #214
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Actually, the typical fan perspective is to be entertained during the 60 minutes of each game, start every season thinking we'll win the Cup, and not be overly concerned with the machinations and long-term strategies. I was like this for a long time. Me, my friends, all of us followed the Habs every year, hoped for the best, watched the playoffs until we lost and then forgot all about it until October.

Analyzing the game behind the game -- like what we do here -- is an atypical perspective of a small % of fans who see what happens in the board-rooms as being as interesting as what happens on the ice.
Maybe I didn't articulate myself well enough, but this really has no relevance with what I said.

It would be a naive and fan perspective to claim that every move a GM makes is predicated on attaining a cup.

A GM has to placate many different people. The owner, and the profit margins. The other top executives and their opinions. The coach, and who he wants on his roster. The media. The list goes on.

Secondly, moves are often predicated on a business perspective just as much as a hockey perspective.

Fans are obsessive about the Stanley Cup. But in reality, the professionals in the league (ie the executives and players) care less about it than fans think they do.

I am sure Bergevin cares more about keeping the Molson's happy and his own job rather than winning a cup. If he can do all three then beautiful, but these are humans we are talking about.

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:17 AM
  #215
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,905
vCash: 1707
Mediocre prospects? Really?
They might not be famous names, but hardly mediocre... Or maybe you have wildly exaggerated expectations of what a good prospects pool consists of

Aren we ranked top 5 prospects wise on here?

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:17 AM
  #216
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
If the four years was too long, I presume you would have preferred two. But two years included ZERO UFA years, so $3.5 was not necessary. We should have either signed him 2 years at about $2.25, knowing his limitations, or just waited to the end of the year. The only was I was giving 4 years was for $2.0M per year so that I had a highly tradeable contract.
The DD signing has bothered others much more than it bothers me. What bothers me about the DD signing is that we've continued to surround him with smurfs. As an individual, DD isn't a bad little player. Adds some scoring depth and I don't really mind him.

But teaming him with Gionta, Gallagher, Plecs and now Briere doesn't make any sense at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
This is such a fan perspective, but in reality is far from the truth.

The GM's job is to run a successful franchise. A cup is gravy, not the only goal.
You have things completely backwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Right-on. Basically, the Habs have a major leak and Bergevin responds by purchasing another paddle.
Yup he got a paddle and also managed to make the leak in our boat worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
I think the timing of our Cup window depends largely on how well our D develop. If Tinordi, Beauieu and Dietz/Ellis/Pateryn look legit -- and I'll bet we'll get a good look at them this season -- we could have a very solid, big, balanced defence by the following season. 2014/15 could be our time. Our D could be our strength, and almost all of it could be homegrown through the draft. If so, Plekanec should be a part of that. He'll still be in his prime, plus the leadership, experience, etc.

That means focusing on our forward depth. We need to get the right player, a real PF. I don't care how, but that's when Bergevin sprouts balls and gets it done. Trade the players you mentioned, add Bourque to the list, sweeten it with one D if necessary. I'll even speak heresy and offer Gallagher to get a star forward. We have to accept that to get someone big we have to give someone big.

The only other option is to get a prime UFA. I don't buy the idea that top UFAs won't come to Montreal. We just have offer enough. Trade away Briere, free up $4M and get the right guy, not just the available guy.
A prime UFA has to be available to begin with though. Usually they aren't. They are usually over the hill guys. It's rare to have the opportunity to bid on a true impact player like Pronger or Chara.

As for dealing Gallagher... I would hate to do it. But I see where you're coming from.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:19 AM
  #217
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansman View Post
I believe we are 2 years,maybe 3 from being cup contenders.Bergy is doing all the right moves,and the most important is patience.

He has not squandered draft picks for stop gaps
He has not gotten into bidding wars for UFA's
He has not traded youth for vets

Sometimes the best move is no move.
It really is this simple.

Too many people on here who just don't get it. This thread has caused me to roll my eyes far too often and most of the posts aren't worth responding to.

Estimated_Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:19 AM
  #218
JohnnyB11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saint John, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
If you consider the lack of size an issue to the point of drafting a big prospect in the first round and then turn around and trade for a diminutive prospect, your intentions are not very clear.

As for being bias, I don't see how I could be. Nothing against Bergevin or management.
Did you realize that Kristo is no monster? 5'11", 185 lbs my friend. Not like any significant size was dealt away. and these are prospects here, both Thomas and Kristo are unlikely to find their way to the NHL this year, save for injury time.

It's been shown that acquiring players that can play hockey and are big physically via trade or FA can be extremely expensive. So Bergevin went the draft route. Drafting McCarron and trading Kristo for Thomas are not to linked together in some fashion a far as I'm concerned.

As far as you not seeing how you could be biased, well, that's a problem I can't help you with. I doubt I'm the only one who feels your bias comes across too strong. No biggie, we all have a bias - I feel it's important to recognize your own as much as possible if you are to try to bring any objectivity to the table.

JohnnyB11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:20 AM
  #219
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You have things completely backwards.
Oh do I? Have you ever wondered why teams such as Toronto, Montreal, and New York seem to eerily follow the same approach to building a team?

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:22 AM
  #220
JohnnyB11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saint John, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It really is this simple.

Too many people on here who just don't get it. This thread has caused me to roll my eyes far too often and most of the posts aren't worth responding to.
Add me to the list of those in full agreement.

I think part of it is just the time of year here on HFBoards. We go through this every year - people want SOMETHING to talk about, a big trade, a big splash of some kind. In the absence of this, people get even more impatient.

JohnnyB11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:26 AM
  #221
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Maybe I didn't articulate myself well enough, but this really has no relevance with what I said.

It would be a naive and fan perspective to claim that every move a GM makes is predicated on attaining a cup.

A GM has to placate many different people. The owner, and the profit margins. The other top executives and their opinions. The coach, and who he wants on his roster. The media. The list goes on.

Secondly, moves are often predicated on a business perspective just as much as a hockey perspective.

Fans are obsessive about the Stanley Cup. But in reality, the professionals in the league (ie the executives and players) care less about it than fans think they do.

I am sure Bergevin cares more about keeping the Molson's happy and his own job rather than winning a cup. If he can do all three then beautiful, but these are humans we are talking about.
This isn't Phoenix. If it was you'd have a point. The GM there is in constant survival mode to attract fans into the building. A window dressing move there makes sense and in some cases is imperative.

Totally different situation here.

Montreal fans are getting antsy for a cup. And I'm sure Molson feels that pressure. He doesn't come across as a meddling owner to me. I could be wrong on that front, but my perception is that he's hired MB to build him a contender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Oh do I? Have you ever wondered why teams such as Toronto, Montreal, and New York seem to eerily follow the same approach to building a team?
Boston has done well... so has Chicago. Why can't we follow that pattern instead?

Toronto (much like Chicago) had terrible ownership for years and years. They just missed out on 8 straight years of the playoffs. The three headed monster that was running things over there didn't know what the hell they were doing. So what are they doing now? Rebuilding. The right way, the proper way. I think they may actually have finally learned from their mistakes. We'll see. Then again... they just blew a ******** on Clarkson and co...

As for the Rangers, they're like the Flyers. Get a high priced big name, let him go, get another one...

We certainly don't have to follow in their footsteps.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:31 AM
  #222
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Add me to the list of those in full agreement.

I think part of it is just the time of year here on HFBoards. We go through this every year - people want SOMETHING to talk about, a big trade, a big splash of some kind. In the absence of this, people get even more impatient.
No they wouldn't.

You just hit the nail on the head. We do this EVERY YEAR. Every year we make a window dressing move that isn't going to really help us. The GM doesn't have to do this. The GM SHOULDN'T do this. If the move isn't going to help get us closer to a cup then DON'T DO IT. We have to start learning from our mistakes.

We should make moves. But the moves don't need to be for a 'name' player. A shutdown guy, that would be good enough. A power forward is something we do need but at least get a shutdown guy. Don't make window dressing moves.

You say the fans demand these kinds of moves? Just ignore those demands. They'll still fill the arenas and we'll get better teams to boot. Nobody is going to walk away...

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:33 AM
  #223
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Add me to the list of those in full agreement.

I think part of it is just the time of year here on HFBoards. We go through this every year - people want SOMETHING to talk about, a big trade, a big splash of some kind. In the absence of this, people get even more impatient.
MB managed to create a huge culture shift last season and he is going to patiently look to cement that culture by adding pieces to it when the time and opportunity are right.

He has clearly sniffed around some possibilities but wisely backed off when the asking price was too high. The club is too early in the building phase to risk ruining the progress made with a bad trade. The smartest way to make any large purchase in life is to wait until you find one that you like as opposed to forcing the issue and paying too much. This team has a great core and strong prospect base which will naturally improve and strengthen the team. There is no need to do anything drastic that would jeopardize this.

Estimated_Prophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:39 AM
  #224
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
MB managed to create a huge culture shift last season and he is going to patiently look to cement that culture by adding pieces to it when the time and opportunity are right.

He has clearly sniffed around some possibilities but wisely backed off when the asking price was too high. The club is too early in the building phase to risk ruining the progress made with a bad trade. The smartest way to make any large purchase in life is to wait until you find one that you like as opposed to forcing the issue and paying too much. This team has a great core and strong prospect base which will naturally improve and strengthen the team. There is no need to do anything drastic that would jeopardize this.
So don't sign Briere. Keep the cap space and wait for the right moment to make a trade. Maybe it's at the deadline, maybe earlier...

Flyers are cap screwed. Coburn would actually help us. Go after him. That makes sense because it helps our team and gets us closer to a cup. Don't waste time on Briere who does absolutely nothing but window dressing.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2013, 11:49 AM
  #225
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,905
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So don't sign Briere. Keep the cap space and wait for the right moment to make a trade. Maybe it's at the deadline, maybe earlier...

Flyers are cap screwed. Coburn would actually help us. Go after him. That makes sense because it helps our team and gets us closer to a cup. Don't waste time on Briere who does absolutely nothing but window dressing.
and how do we acquire coburn exctly? I think we can't possibly come out of a trade for coburn better than without.

It's easy to say 'get this guy', but at the moment, we have so few desirable pieces that I can't forsee a trade for him possible at all.

So, what would you send philly's way?

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.