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The Michael McCarron Thread - Part II : Bigger, Stronger and Meaner

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Old
07-20-2013, 02:36 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
He needs to develop technique. Know how to get a better grip, and weaken the opponent with jabs and feints. He seems to want to go for the Haymaker a bit too much.

Am telling you. We should have a Brandon Prust Summer Camp.
It makes sense but I tend to agree with the OP who posted the video.
Lower body strength is not at par with upper body.
Once he is more stable, he will be tougher.

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07-20-2013, 03:06 PM
  #352
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I didn't mind his technique in that fight. When he has more proportional core and leg strength he will be able to control the fight better with his front hand. You can see that he was trying to do that but the guy he was fighting looked really solid.

That vid actually makes me even more excited about this pick.

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07-20-2013, 03:13 PM
  #353
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It looks like his balance and technique are his down falls, nothing too hard to fix he will be able to hold his own, give him one year to learn what he needs to do to be successful at dropping the gloves then he should be a force!

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07-20-2013, 03:14 PM
  #354
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In the ohl of course

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07-20-2013, 03:51 PM
  #355
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It looks like his balance and technique are his down falls, nothing too hard to fix he will be able to hold his own, give him one year to learn what he needs to do to be successful at dropping the gloves then he should be a force!
Brandon Prust will take care of that in september. There's nobody in the league that has better technique.

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07-20-2013, 04:34 PM
  #356
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Haymakers were slow on top of it. Not super worried. He sounds like he loves to fight, so he'll be doing all he can outside the rink to get better.

Also, he just looks like he'd have a good chin. Maybe it's his monstrous chin.
I found Crisp does the same thing when he fights, just goes for the knockout blow. It's stupid, and they will get clocked if he and McCarron don't fix their techniques. However, they are only 18/19 and have lots of time to learn proper techniques. Like someone earlier said, with the size McCarron has, he will have a reach advantage over most opponents. He needs to learn how to keep his opponents an arms length away and jab them until they start making stupid decisions, then he can clock them with his right.

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07-20-2013, 06:38 PM
  #357
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Balance is a common problem fighters have. The good ones correct it and win fights, the bad ones don't and don't.

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07-20-2013, 07:22 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Jessiman had bust potential because he had no hands, was a poor skater, and had below average offensive hockey sense.
To the contrary. What we're hearing now about McCarron, we heard about Jessiman before. Jessiman was thought as a big man with good skating and good hands for a player his size. We even saw it in the TSN re-run of the 2003 draft. If you look at reports from previous years you'll find the same.

I hope McCarron turns out well but he's very far from being an impact player in the NHL IMO. Personally I'm not a fan of those big guys. They get overrated most of the time. For every Lucic there's 10 busts in the category of players.

Also, if McCarron turns out as a 4th line grinder with some fighting skills, I'd consider that a bust given the talent in this draft.

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07-20-2013, 07:47 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
To the contrary. What we're hearing now about McCarron, we heard about Jessiman before. Jessiman was thought as a big man with good skating and good hands for a player his size. We even saw it in the TSN re-run of the 2003 draft. If you look at reports from previous years you'll find the same.

I hope McCarron turns out well but he's very far from being an impact player in the NHL IMO. Personally I'm not a fan of those big guys. They get overrated most of the time. For every Lucic there's 10 busts in the category of players.

Also, if McCarron turns out as a 4th line grinder with some fighting skills, I'd consider that a bust given the talent in this draft.
Not sure what reports you are referring to, but they weren't correct. They certainly weren't "reports" from any NHL teams. He did not have much skill at all or offensive hockey sense, and the pick was considered a huge reach by many pro scouts. I live in a small town with two prominent scouts who are friends, and they couldn't believe the Rangers took him that high. I have not ran into a single scout that thinks the McCarron pick was a reach, mainly because he has no discernible weaknesses, unlike Jessiman.

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07-20-2013, 08:21 PM
  #360
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Where was Jessiman expected to get drafted at the time?

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07-20-2013, 08:26 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Not sure what reports you are referring to, but they weren't correct. They certainly weren't "reports" from any NHL teams. He did not have much skill at all or offensive hockey sense, and the pick was considered a huge reach by many pro scouts. I live in a small town with two prominent scouts who are friends, and they couldn't believe the Rangers took him that high. I have not ran into a single scout that thinks the McCarron pick was a reach, mainly because he has no discernible weaknesses, unlike Jessiman.
Boy is McCarron looking like a heck of a good bet. All we can ever ask is our team makes reasoned decisions and while not anywhere close to all of our picks will pan out, as long as we are being smart about things we should do well, and McCarron could certainly be one of the good calls. Certainly would be shocked if he couldn't at least make the bottom 6.

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07-20-2013, 08:32 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Not sure what reports you are referring to, but they weren't correct. They certainly weren't "reports" from any NHL teams. He did not have much skill at all or offensive hockey sense, and the pick was considered a huge reach by many pro scouts. I live in a small town with two prominent scouts who are friends, and they couldn't believe the Rangers took him that high. I have not ran into a single scout that thinks the McCarron pick was a reach, mainly because he has no discernible weaknesses, unlike Jessiman.
I can't recall exactly who said it during that show. But IIRC they had Bob McKenzie, among other people, and Rangers head scout. First things that were pointed out were how good his skating and hands were for a player his size. If you look at HF's archives you'll find the same said about him. Rangers said they had him at #4 (or at least top 5). IIRC Rangers head scout said it himself he had very good hands and skating for a player his size. So, it's not like there was no NHL team reporting that.

Pretty sure I wasn't the only one who watched that show. So, other people could add on that. Perhaps some still have the show PVR'd.

Also, although he may have been a reach at that point, most people had him as a first round prospect and similar or ahead of where McCarron ranks today.

Like I said, hope everything works out for McCarron. But I really don't think there's no bust factor with him. Quite the opposite. I'm not worried about him producing in the OHL. Not sure yet how he'll adapt to the pro leagues. Several big men hit a wall when they got to the AHL.

Personally, I don't think having no "discernible weaknesses" really helps players make the NHL. Like Vigneault coined it in his days with the Habs. Players need to have their own chair in order to play in the NHL. Either you're a scoring forward who gets PP minutes or you're a defensive player who eats minutes on the PK. Not sure where McCarron fits yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that you thought Connor Hurley's production was weak for a USHL player? If that's the case, Hurley was among the youngest players in the draft and played very few games in the USHL. Yet he scored at about the same rate as McCarron who was in his second season and about 50 pounds heavier than the average USHLer.

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07-20-2013, 08:33 PM
  #363
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Boy is McCarron looking like a heck of a good bet. All we can ever ask is our team makes reasoned decisions and while not anywhere close to all of our picks will pan out, as long as we are being smart about things we should do well, and McCarron could certainly be one of the good calls. Certainly would be shocked if he couldn't at least make the bottom 6.
I found this on a SI.com article

002-03 with Dartmouth (ECAC): 34 GP, 23 G, 24 A, 47 PTS, 48 PIM
NHL Central Scouting Rank: 20th among North American skaters
Quick, name the last Dartmouth product to enjoy more than a cup of coffee in the NHL? You'd have to go all the way back to Carey Wilson, who played for three teams from 1983-84 to 1992-93. Jessiman could become the first player from the Ivy League school to be taken in the first round of the draft after he was ranked 20th among North American skaters by NHL Central Scouting. He's got plenty of size and a hard, accurate shot. Came out of nowhere to draw the attention of scouts after playing high school hockey at the Brunswick School in Connecticut. Scouts consider him a project but likes his raw talent and hockey sense.

From HFBoards article about Jessiman

General Manager Glen Sather, along with Tom Renney and the rest of the Rangers scouting staff, were ecstatic to see Dartmouth power forward and New York native Hugh Jessiman fall into their laps at 12th overall in the 2003 draft. It came as a surprise to them, since they had Jessiman ranked as the fourth best player available in the entire draft. Either they overrated Jessiman or they saw something in him that nobody else had seen. Thus far, the pick has not apnned out as the Rangers would have hoped.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...eens_jessiman/

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Old
07-21-2013, 05:04 PM
  #364
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Wish we didn't have to wait!!!! Wish he was 21-22...now!!

McCarron-Galchenyuk-Gallagher



p.s.: but...it'll be fun to follow his development with the London Knights

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07-21-2013, 06:17 PM
  #365
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Big Mac hasn't played a single OHL game and he alread has bust "potential." Wow, now we're measuring the likelyhood of prospects being busts!? This is a new level of ridiculousness that some posters should stop, take a deep breath and get some prospective.

Kid has everything we're looking for right now and has been widely touted as an excellent prospect. Unbelievable.

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07-21-2013, 06:28 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
He needs to develop technique. Know how to get a better grip, and weaken the opponent with jabs and feints. He seems to want to go for the Haymaker a bit too much.

Am telling you. We should have a Brandon Prust Summer Camp.
So he can't fight yet we picked him to be a enforcer?

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07-21-2013, 06:34 PM
  #367
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I was looking at some other 2013 picks (some of the taller kids) and Keegan Kanzig (6 7 245 lbs) really impressed with his scrapping skills (13-0-1 record in 12-13).

At #67 overall (4 picks ahead of Crisp) I really hope McCarron can learn to use his size/reach/defense the way this kid does in his fights.


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Old
07-21-2013, 06:36 PM
  #368
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I can't recall exactly who said it during that show. But IIRC they had Bob McKenzie, among other people, and Rangers head scout. First things that were pointed out were how good his skating and hands were for a player his size. If you look at HF's archives you'll find the same said about him. Rangers said they had him at #4 (or at least top 5). IIRC Rangers head scout said it himself he had very good hands and skating for a player his size. So, it's not like there was no NHL team reporting that.

Pretty sure I wasn't the only one who watched that show. So, other people could add on that. Perhaps some still have the show PVR'd.

Also, although he may have been a reach at that point, most people had him as a first round prospect and similar or ahead of where McCarron ranks today.

Like I said, hope everything works out for McCarron. But I really don't think there's no bust factor with him. Quite the opposite. I'm not worried about him producing in the OHL. Not sure yet how he'll adapt to the pro leagues. Several big men hit a wall when they got to the AHL.

Personally, I don't think having no "discernible weaknesses" really helps players make the NHL. Like Vigneault coined it in his days with the Habs. Players need to have their own chair in order to play in the NHL. Either you're a scoring forward who gets PP minutes or you're a defensive player who eats minutes on the PK. Not sure where McCarron fits yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that you thought Connor Hurley's production was weak for a USHL player? If that's the case, Hurley was among the youngest players in the draft and played very few games in the USHL. Yet he scored at about the same rate as McCarron who was in his second season and about 50 pounds heavier than the average USHLer.
Watch Hugh Jessiman play sometime and get back to me..okay? You'd swear from the way you're describing him that he was an NHL star. What's his weakness then if all of this is apparently true? He is not a good skater and doesn't have good hands...period. Maybe a couple of incompetent scouts watching him play thought differently at the time..obviously they were wrong were they not?

Here's a little tidbit for you I dug up regarding how "enamoured" the Rangers were with him

"One of the best lunches I've had in the past year, was with a former scout of the New York Rangers, who was on the staff when they picked Jessiman. He told me that only ONE of the teams scouts ACTUALLY saw Jessiman play, but he convinced the top dogs that Hugh was the pick. BTW...the rest of the scouts were favouring Mike Richards as the pick.

Most of the other scouts, after seeing Jessiman play, first reaction was 'you gotta be kidding me. this kid will never play in the NHL'.

The scout, although I won't mention his name, was a former GM of the Kitchener Rangers, and is from Thunder Bay...my home town."

----------------------------------------------------------

What this fellow said very much goes in line with what I heard about Jessiman from other scouts when he was drafted...they couldn't believe that the Rangers chose him in the first round at all..let alone 11th overall.

Having no discernible weaknesses is good when you're 6-5 and have a physical presence.. We're not talking about a 5-11 kid here. Pro scouts and the likes of Mark Hunter have continuously talked about how well Mac skates and handles the puck for his size. There is plenty of upside to go with the no discernible weaknesses. Makes for a safe draft pick in my mind...certainly not a potential bust like Jessiman, who was not a good skater from all reports I recall, and still isn't. It's the main reason why he remains the only top 30 pick from that draft not to play in the NHL.

Hurley had one goal in 11 games...and played on the third and fourth line. Check out McCarron's goal stats his last 11 games...he scored more than once I can tell you. For a kid that was so hyped and dubbed a "power forward, Hurley disappointed a lot of scouts with his lack of offensive upside once he faced better competition. I heard from several scouts that he had "no hands"...haven't heard that about McCarron from anyone other than Grind your Gears.


Last edited by Grant McCagg: 07-21-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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07-21-2013, 06:37 PM
  #369
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So he can't fight yet we picked him to be a enforcer?
Yupp, like when we picked the soft Latendresse him hope we could turn him into the next Bertuzzi. It worked doesn't it

But seriously, I doubt Timmins and the Habs drafted him at rank 25 to become an enforcer. They obviously saw in the guy top 6 upside. Fighting is a plus, and with the desire to fight, anybody can learn to at least defend himself.

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07-21-2013, 07:10 PM
  #370
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This whole bust argument is really going nowhere if people don't share the same view of the word bust.

If McCarron turns out into a Brandon Prust, i.e. serviceable 3rd liner/ideal 4th liner that can chip in from time to time and isn't afraid to drop 'em against pretty much anyone... Should he be considered a bust? I for one wouldn't be ecstatic, not because McCarron wouldn't help the Habs if that's how things turned out, but simply because this draft class has been shoved down our throats for quite a while as the second coming of the 2003 draft, in which you had stars popping out from everywhere. So put into context, would he end up as a fringe 3rd liner, I would tend to consider him as an underwhelming pick, at worst a "bust".

I'm personally not much of a fan of that pick, mostly because there were much more naturally gifted players available at that spot. There's however many more things to consider when it comes to drafting a player, character and maturity being some of them, and these are the sort of things scouts/NHL team's management are much more aware than us fans.

Anyway, to not consider McCarron a bust, he would need, for me, to become at least a decent top 6 player. By that [my] definition, his bust ratio is rather high, because like I said, I don't see all that much natural skills in him, compared to Zykov, for example. I certainly do hope he proves me wrong though, in a similar fashion to what Pacioretty did in the last couple of years.

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07-21-2013, 07:10 PM
  #371
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So he can't fight yet we picked him to be a enforcer?
You don't pick a player in the 1st round to be an enforcer...

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07-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #372
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You don't pick a player in the 1st round to be an enforcer...
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=116161

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07-21-2013, 07:14 PM
  #373
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http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=110977

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07-21-2013, 07:15 PM
  #374
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lolwut?

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07-21-2013, 07:18 PM
  #375
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He's driven to make stupid posts.

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