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Old
07-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #51
Habsfannick
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Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
That seems like a reasonable offer, although I'd like to see how Ellerby goes after training camp, with a chance to settle into our system.

How good is LeBlanc on the wing? can he play both?
Yeah he can when he played in Montreal in 2011-2012 he played mostly wing

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07-21-2013, 12:22 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Yeah he can when he played in Montreal in 2011-2012 he played mostly wing
Can you give us a bit of a scouting report from a fans point of view? What sort of player does he project to be? Who does he play like?

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07-21-2013, 12:35 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
Can you give us a bit of a scouting report from a fans point of view? What sort of player does he project to be? Who does he play like?
He's a good player, he was suppose to challenge for a spot on the team this year, he went to Hamilton instead and never really hit his stride and got injured. If he bounces back and plays like he did in 2012 he could be a solid 2way 3rd liner as early a next season and could potentially be a top 6 two way forward if he gets back on the same groove he was on before this year. I saw him at developmental camp he looked good and I've see him a few half dozen times in person off-ice and he's a great guy. He's not the most skilled player by any degree but he's a solid player, good skating, decent puck skills and shot and good defensively.

Essentially if he puts it all together he would be a steal

I'm in no part a pro scout this opinion is based off a few QMJHL games, his half year in Montreal, a dozen or so Hamilton games last year and his showing at the development camp

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07-21-2013, 12:59 AM
  #54
DontgoZiggy
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
He's a good player, he was suppose to challenge for a spot on the team this year, he went to Hamilton instead and never really hit his stride and got injured. If he bounces back and plays like he did in 2012 he could be a solid 2way 3rd liner as early a next season and could potentially be a top 6 two way forward if he gets back on the same groove he was on before this year. I saw him at developmental camp he looked good and I've see him a few half dozen times in person off-ice and he's a great guy. He's not the most skilled player by any degree but he's a solid player, good skating, decent puck skills and shot and good defensively.

Essentially if he puts it all together he would be a steal

I'm in no part a pro scout this opinion is based off a few QMJHL games, his half year in Montreal, a dozen or so Hamilton games last year and his showing at the development camp
I appreciate the input. Lombardi likes forwards that are versatile. On face value this seems like a decent trade for both teams, If Clifford needs to be moved, this seems reasonable.

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07-21-2013, 05:10 AM
  #55
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The Kings system isn't very good.
Yeah you're right. We're great. We crank out big and fast guys, guys of character and guys who win. Other teams ask for our bottom sixers, we don't go around asking for other teams' bottom sixers except for a few exceptions of teams who play the same way we do.

Our prospect pool has no blue chippers though so that's lacking but I already said that. Trading your 1sts for proven talent and going far in the playoffs will do that. Then again, Tyler Toffoli is almost a blue chipper and a lot of people feel Zykov may be too.

I guess you're wrong.

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07-21-2013, 05:21 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
I'd like to get Ellerby+Clifford from the Kings

What would it take? realistically please
That's doable...personally I'd rather have picks. Lombardi loves to have a ton of picks so when someone like Zykov drops, he can trade up for them. It doesn't always work but he likes to do that. Plus we have a pretty decent draft record in the early rounds after the lottery picks.

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07-21-2013, 08:16 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Yeah you're right. We're great. We crank out big and fast guys, guys of character and guys who win. Other teams ask for our bottom sixers, we don't go around asking for other teams' bottom sixers except for a few exceptions of teams who play the same way we do.

Our prospect pool has no blue chippers though so that's lacking but I already said that. Trading your 1sts for proven talent and going far in the playoffs will do that. Then again, Tyler Toffoli is almost a blue chipper and a lot of people feel Zykov may be too.

I guess you're wrong.
Actually, part of the reason your prospect pool is lacking blue chip talent is because the blue chippers are already playing. I would also point out that you have not traded away a majority of your 1st round picks for players to make deep playoff runs, you only traded away TWO valuable 1st rounders that helped your team with relation to the playoffs. Now, just because trading a couple of first rounders has helped you in the last 3 seasons to do well in the playoffs, that does not mean your team should ignore a need in the organization for talented prospects if a deal is offered to help that apparent organizational weakness. Good organizations always try to fill organizational needs even when it seems like there are no real weaknesses. The Habs, as an example, traded with the Bruins to get a prospect called Ken Dryden at a time when the Habs did not need a goalie. Dryden led that team to a Cup as a rookie.

I agree, your team s terrific and a strong contender going forward. I disagree that it should simply stand pat and laugh at all offers of reasonable value to improve the organization. Knowledge is power.

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Old
07-21-2013, 10:16 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
That seems like a reasonable offer, although I'd like to see how Ellerby goes after training camp, with a chance to settle into our system.

How good is LeBlanc on the wing? can he play both?
yes and if he makes the Habs this year, he will play on the wing where they can use his speed and quickness

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07-21-2013, 02:27 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Yeah you're right. We're great. We crank out big and fast guys, guys of character and guys who win. Other teams ask for our bottom sixers, we don't go around asking for other teams' bottom sixers except for a few exceptions of teams who play the same way we do.

Our prospect pool has no blue chippers though so that's lacking but I already said that. Trading your 1sts for proven talent and going far in the playoffs will do that. Then again, Tyler Toffoli is almost a blue chipper and a lot of people feel Zykov may be too.

I guess you're wrong.
When does a system full of big guys with character and grit (your description) make a system great? No professional scouting service or Kings fan besides yourself would call our prospect pool great.

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07-21-2013, 02:35 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
kopitar brown quick doughty voynov clifford lewis clifford amartinez king nolan own draft picks on the team molson boyle simmonds scheen purcell hickey (off the top of my head) playing on others team all king draft picks in the nhl toffolli forbert vey vykov pearson gravel etc on the way yeah your right just terrble
"kopitar brown quick doughty voynov clifford lewis clifford amartinez king Nolan " are not prospects so please don't dumb down what I said with stupid fluff names.

"toffolli forbert vey vykov pearson gravel" Toffoli will have graduated in 7 games. The rest will not sniff a top 50 prospect list. Those are the best of the best that you chose.

"yeah your right just terrble "

Who said they are terrible? I said the Kings system is "not great". The who point was that Clifford can be traded because we have plenty of people in the system and play a bottom 6 role. The system is full of guys on the brisk of doing that.

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07-21-2013, 02:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Tee hee


I'd do the leblanc/clifford deal. Have to give to get, and clifford and ellerby meet immediate needs
Not always, some GM's get fleeced.

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Old
07-21-2013, 05:27 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
I appreciate the input. Lombardi likes forwards that are versatile. On face value this seems like a decent trade for both teams, If Clifford needs to be moved, this seems reasonable.
Leblanc and Clifford I believe are from the same draft in Montreal. Leblanc going around 18th and Clifford in the 2nd round

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07-21-2013, 09:26 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
"kopitar brown quick doughty voynov clifford lewis clifford amartinez king Nolan " are not prospects so please don't dumb down what I said with stupid fluff names.

"toffolli forbert vey vykov pearson gravel" Toffoli will have graduated in 7 games. The rest will not sniff a top 50 prospect list. Those are the best of the best that you chose.

"yeah your right just terrble "

Who said they are terrible? I said the Kings system is "not great". The who point was that Clifford can be traded because we have plenty of people in the system and play a bottom 6 role. The system is full of guys on the brisk of doing that.
If montreal's system is so great, why do you have such a small top 6? Shouldn't you guys be developing some size combined with skill?

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07-22-2013, 08:07 AM
  #64
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Didn't realize Tinordi was such a highly prestigious superstar in Montreal. I guess players who are over 6'0" tall are revered there.
Every one of their player is

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07-22-2013, 08:12 AM
  #65
Habsfannick
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
Every one of their player is
This is really getting annoying!! Tinordi isn't a superstar by any account, he is a huge, bruising defensive defenseman and that fits montreals needs in the future and in the present, therefore we won't move him unless what we are getting back is an upgrade in that department.

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07-22-2013, 08:50 AM
  #66
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I never like LA-MTL trade proposal. It always comes down to ....

Anyhow, I beleive Montreal is looking to trade either DD or Gionta, not both. On defense, they could part ways fwith Diaz IMO so LA is not a good trading partner.
But for the fun of it, I'll try with the players targeted in the OP.


To Montreal:Ellerby
To LA: Pateryn and a 3rd/2014

or

To Montreal:Clifford
To LA:Holland and a 3rd/2014

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07-22-2013, 08:59 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
I never like LA-MTL trade proposal. It always comes down to .... Anyhow, I beleive Montreal is looking to trade either DD or Gionta, not both. On defense, they could part ways fwith Diaz IMO so LA is not a good trading partner. But for the fun of it, I'll try with the players targeted in the OP. To Montreal:Ellerby To LA: Pateryn and a 3rd/2014 or To Montreal:Clifford To LA:Holland and a 3rd/2014
To Montreal:Ellerby
To LA: Pateryn and a 3rd/2014 is good trade for Kings.

Holland is not needed. Kings have similar prospects.

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07-22-2013, 09:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
To Montreal:Ellerby
To LA: Pateryn and a 3rd/2014 is good trade for Kings.

Holland is not needed. Kings have similar prospects.
Holland is a good prospect for the Habs. Has top 6 potential in the right environment. This did favor the Habs a bit just like the Ellerby offer did favor the Kings.

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07-22-2013, 09:48 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
"kopitar brown quick doughty voynov clifford lewis clifford amartinez king Nolan " are not prospects so please don't dumb down what I said with stupid fluff names.

"toffolli forbert vey vykov pearson gravel" Toffoli will have graduated in 7 games. The rest will not sniff a top 50 prospect list. Those are the best of the best that you chose.

"yeah your right just terrble "

Who said they are terrible? I said the Kings system is "not great". The who point was that Clifford can be traded because we have plenty of people in the system and play a bottom 6 role. The system is full of guys on the brisk of doing that.
the 2nd round pics that the kings have picked have been unreal. I know that does not mean the system is good. But someone still has to develop these guys.

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07-22-2013, 09:54 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
If montreal's system is so great, why do you have such a small top 6? Shouldn't you guys be developing some size combined with skill?
Good question. I think the habs have valued speed and skill forever BUT i think as any team in the league can attest drafting or trading for size and skill is not easy. I think the Martin / Gainey / Gauthier era post 2009 was a disaster and they were banking on the NHL becoming less of a physical / obstruction / hooking league. which didn't happen. so since then, Timmins and now with Bergevin habs have begun to change...you're seeing it with draft picks like Tinordi, Crisp, Thrower, Dietz, McCarron etc...

that being said Habs still love their smallish skill guys and the next one who i think will be great is Charles Hudon

in top 9 - briere / gionta /Desharnais - UFA signings
plekanecs and Gallagher - drafted

though i think one of Desharnais, plekanecs or Gionta might
be gone before the season starts

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07-22-2013, 11:03 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
Good question. I think the habs have valued speed and skill forever BUT i think as any team in the league can attest drafting or trading for size and skill is not easy. I think the Martin / Gainey / Gauthier era post 2009 was a disaster and they were banking on the NHL becoming less of a physical / obstruction / hooking league. which didn't happen. so since then, Timmins and now with Bergevin habs have begun to change...you're seeing it with draft picks like Tinordi, Crisp, Thrower, Dietz, McCarron etc...

that being said Habs still love their smallish skill guys and the next one who i think will be great is Charles Hudon

in top 9 - briere / gionta /Desharnais - UFA signings
plekanecs and Gallagher - drafted

though i think one of Desharnais, plekanecs or Gionta might
be gone before the season starts

That won't happen, Gionta at deadline if MTL is out of it and Plek next season once Eller and Galy establish themselves. Desharnais, he will be with MTL for the next 3 years. No one will add 5 million in cap space now. Rosters are 90% complete

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07-22-2013, 11:05 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
yes and if he makes the Habs this year, he will play on the wing where they can use his speed and quickness
Leblanc is not a fast skater, this is one of his weaknesses.

Some people say that he lost a part of his confidence in Hamilton because they have put heavy pad to his skate to improve that weakness.

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07-22-2013, 11:18 AM
  #73
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Leblanc is Hemsky will less speed and skill, he is made of glass and is on the bubble to make it to the NHL. The proposal for Clifford - Ellerby should include only picks. I'll take my chances for the Kings to draft and develop their own players.

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07-22-2013, 11:28 AM
  #74
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When does a system full of big guys with character and grit (your description) make a system great? No professional scouting service or Kings fan besides yourself would call our prospect pool great.
When five of your top six are terrific players and you draft low half of the time, you crank out a Toffoli, pick up a Zykov and late round players make it to the NHL every year...

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07-22-2013, 11:43 AM
  #75
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To Montreal:Ellerby
To LA: Pateryn and a 3rd/2014
I'd be all over this like Jughead on a cheeseburger.

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