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OT: City of Detroit files for bankruptcy (Ch 9, ~$20 b debt restructuring sought)

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Old
07-21-2013, 11:27 PM
  #201
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22,000 alums in the Chicago area compared to 13,000 in NYC. IIRC, San Francisco has the second most.

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07-21-2013, 11:27 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You know this definitively? I'd think more grads would head out East.
Chicago is the capital of the Midwest and draws a lot of people from all of the Big Ten schools (of which Michigan has two). Some do leave Big Ten schools and head for the coasts, but people who want a big city and not to be that far from home, Chicago is the city where the most Big Ten alums end up.

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07-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
Chicago is the capital of the Midwest and draws a lot of people from all of the Big Ten schools (of which Michigan has two). Some do leave Big Ten schools and head for the coasts, but people who want a big city and not to be that far from home, Chicago is the city where the most Big Ten alums end up.
I'm very familiar with Chicagoland (where I grew up) and Big Ten schools. I was looking for concrete figures, despite your reasoning being sound.

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22,000 alums in the Chicago area compared to 13,000 in NYC. IIRC, San Francisco has the second most.

Okay. Merci!

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07-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #204
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I tried to find firm numbers on DC, which I'd imagine has the second largest base on the east coast but I couldn't come up with anything

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07-21-2013, 11:57 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I'm very familiar with Chicagoland (where I grew up) and Big Ten schools. I was looking for concrete figures, despite your reasoning being sound.
The articles from the Big Ten basketball tournament returning to Chicago said 300,000 Big Ten alums are in Chicago overall and mentioned MSU having 25,000 in Chicago. Not sure about U of M.

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07-22-2013, 12:57 AM
  #206
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Here is something on this in terms of U of M

http://annarbor.com/news/where-u-m-alumni-live/

MSU has more, but it is also a heck of a lot more common to run into kids from the Illinois and Chicago area in my experience at both campuses. U of M has a significant amount that are from the Eastern Seaboard and return there after college. Not everyone that goes to U of M or MSU is from Michigan to begin with or had plans of staying there, so there is some flaw in looking at that as a be all end all.

To be clear, I meant in my experience MSU has more that go to the Chicago area, not more alumni outside of Michigan. They both have pretty massive alumni bases in Chicago. U of M has a more substantial one out East though on top of that.

To get some feel of this, when Northwestern went to market itself as the Big Ten's Chicago team. This was run

Quote:
But attracting more casual sports fans in a market dominated by professional teams requires winning more big games, especially because Northwestern has fewer alumni in Chicago—80,000—than every Big Ten school except Penn State and Nebraska.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oot-for-us-too


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 07-22-2013 at 03:14 AM.
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07-22-2013, 01:05 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Here is something on this in terms of U of M

http://annarbor.com/news/where-u-m-alumni-live/

MSU has more, but it is also a heck of a lot more common to run into kids from the Illinois and Chicago area in my experience at both campuses. U of M has a significant amount that are from the Eastern Seaboard and return there after college. Not everyone that goes to U of M or MSU is from Michigan to begin with or had plans of staying there, so there is some flaw in looking at that as a be all end all.
Here's the chart of top ten destinations, with California being the top after Michigan itself.

Where the people are: Top 10 states
  • Michigan: 211,025
  • California: 41,072
  • Illinois: 26,374
  • New York: 25,360
  • Florida: 16,422
  • Ohio: 14,136
  • Texas: 11,908
  • Massachusetts: 10,632
  • Virginia: 10,344
  • Maryland: 9,704
I don't remember MSU's numbers, but possibly 25% to a third are out-of-state, whereas UMich set a new record for 42% being from outside Michigan. That means tuition of about $42K per student.

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07-22-2013, 07:20 AM
  #208
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Players talk to each other, they're not ignorant. They have access to Google, you know


Do you remember the things they were saying during the lockout? A good portion of them are ignorant.




I'd say it's somewhere in between. Some players would be like hell no i'm not going to detroit, others will not let it sway their decision and know there are nice places to live.

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07-22-2013, 08:46 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Here is something on this in terms of U of M

http://annarbor.com/news/where-u-m-alumni-live/

MSU has more, but it is also a heck of a lot more common to run into kids from the Illinois and Chicago area in my experience at both campuses. U of M has a significant amount that are from the Eastern Seaboard and return there after college. Not everyone that goes to U of M or MSU is from Michigan to begin with or had plans of staying there, so there is some flaw in looking at that as a be all end all.

To be clear, I meant in my experience MSU has more that go to the Chicago area, not more alumni outside of Michigan. They both have pretty massive alumni bases in Chicago. U of M has a more substantial one out East though on top of that.

To get some feel of this, when Northwestern went to market itself as the Big Ten's Chicago team. This was run



http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oot-for-us-too
Northwestern has done a really bad job of getting local kids. More people would rather go to Iowa or Wisconsin.

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07-22-2013, 10:43 AM
  #210
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Way less than 25% of MSU's student body is from out of state. It's more like 10-15%

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07-22-2013, 11:20 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Way less than 25% of MSU's student body is from out of state. It's more like 10-15%
You're right. A quick search and 8% are from other US states, 4% from other countries (undergrad). Seeing UMich approaching almost half of their spots going to non-Mich kids, it makes sense that more of them would be at MSU. I think that's really too high for a public state school, tbh, but they're making a killing on the tuition for the out-of-state students (read 'wealthy').

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07-22-2013, 11:28 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Way less than 25% of MSU's student body is from out of state. It's more like 10-15%
MSU is easy to get in, I wonder why they don't get more people.


But ZE, Brodie, MarkGio, Fugu should check this out
http://news.msn.com/us/for-detroit-t...-real-comeback
http://www.visitdetroit.com/destinat...wntown-detroit
http://www.downtowndetroit.org/

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...d#.Ue1bt23OBHg

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...e_in_detr.html

A problem detroit faces
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Mul...wl/Detroit.pdf

More jobs have to come downtown, that number has to get to 55 or even 50 percent

Midtown
http://midtowndetroitinc.org/

http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...y-katz-bradley

http://www.livemidtown.org/

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07-22-2013, 12:17 PM
  #213
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...s-arena-plans/

Bankruptcy raises concerns and questions over news Wings arena plans.

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07-22-2013, 12:51 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...s-arena-plans/

Bankruptcy raises concerns and questions over news Wings arena plans.

Absurd article. The Wings lack of comment is probably due to wishing to avoid any political backlash. The arena plans won't be affected by this.

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07-22-2013, 01:32 PM
  #215
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Absurd article. The Wings lack of comment is probably due to wishing to avoid any political backlash. The arena plans won't be affected by this.
Calling that an article is a stretch.
But I can see people using the arena as a political football...

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07-22-2013, 01:54 PM
  #216
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Calling that an article is a stretch.
But I can see people using the arena as a political football...



I was trying to be kind.

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07-22-2013, 02:24 PM
  #217
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Northwestern has done a really bad job of getting local kids. More people would rather go to Iowa or Wisconsin.
That is really more a choice, had a family member that attended there and another that attended University of Chicago, to say they don't care about local kids is probably a little more accurate. Northwestern is starting to advertise at them in sports, but in terms of their selection of students, there isn't a huge emphasis there. They have a national base, they are a private institution and have no reason not to take kids from everywhere based on just plain merit.

The shift at U of M really borders on an attempt to be like this. In my opinion it cannot last much longer before people take to task the absurdity of the amount of state money they take in and the trend they are currently on. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern and of course the Ivy's can do whatever they want. Even the premier public schools like UVA, UNC, UCLA, Cal Berkley, U of M need to have a certain in State presence and hold true to that.

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07-22-2013, 02:33 PM
  #218
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Relating this a bit to hockey (since I definitely see some relevance with the Red Wings seeking a new arena), might this cause them to seek out a site in Oakland or Macomb County, since any public financing of a new arena in Detroit is out of the question for possibly the next decade? As it is, the Red Wings practice in Troy, and so I think Oakland County could be the place where a replacement for Joe Louis Arena goes...but that could be yet another blow for Detroit.

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07-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by aemoreira1981 View Post
Relating this a bit to hockey (since I definitely see some relevance with the Red Wings seeking a new arena), might this cause them to seek out a site in Oakland or Macomb County, since any public financing of a new arena in Detroit is out of the question for possibly the next decade? As it is, the Red Wings practice in Troy, and so I think Oakland County could be the place where a replacement for Joe Louis Arena goes...but that could be yet another blow for Detroit.
You didn't read the thread, did you?

No, the Wings arena will be 55% privately financed, and the other 45% would come from a state development fund for downtown Detroit. The Ilitches have already bought the land where the new arena is slated to go.

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07-22-2013, 02:42 PM
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You didn't read the thread, did you?

No, the Wings arena will be 55% privately financed, and the other 45% would come from a state development fund for downtown Detroit. The Ilitches have already bought the land where the new arena is slated to go.
A Goldwater-type group should be prepared to try to find any way to block that money from the development fund on being spent on what is essentially sports welfare when the city has more pressing needs. That $283M would be better spent on expanding the police force, replacing end-of-life ambulances and other emergency response vehicles, and bringing the surviving fleet to a state of good repair.

In addition, with most of the fans being from the suburbs, an arena either just off M-10 or I-696 would seem pretty good (provided it doesn't have the problems that the Richfield Coliseum had with access).


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07-22-2013, 02:46 PM
  #221
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You didn't read the thread, did you?

No, the Wings arena will be 55% privately financed, and the other 45% would come from a state development fund for downtown Detroit. The Ilitches have already bought the land where the new arena is slated to go.
What people in this thread fail to realize is that the Red Wings knew this day was coming for months in advance. If not, years.

Much less, anyone that has lived or lives in Michigan or that has paid attention to the continued decline of Detroit

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07-22-2013, 03:08 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by aemoreira1981 View Post
A Goldwater-type group should be prepared to try to find any way to block that money from the development fund on being spent on what is essentially sports welfare when the city has more pressing needs. That $283M would be better spent on expanding the police force, replacing end-of-life ambulances and other emergency response vehicles, and bringing the surviving fleet to a state of good repair.

In addition, with most of the fans being from the suburbs, an arena either just off M-10 or I-696 would seem pretty good (provided it doesn't have the problems that the Richfield Coliseum had with access).
Problem is that is earmarked in a fund for downtown development, which this is. You can call people hopelessly optimistic, but an arena connecting midtown to downtown, bringing with it grocery stores, malls and apartments is exactly what should be invested in. The people within Detroit overwhelmingly supported this, their representatives voted for it to pass in the state votes on it. The only people really upset about this were people from seats in other University cities attempting to divert the money outside of the Detroit area to their Universities by redirecting this into a college scholarship fund. They lost, but most see this as a big opportunity to do something positive for the city because of where it is going.

I guess someone could try, but this isn't messing around with the NHL, this would be fighting Ilitch in a State or local Detroit court. Good luck with that. In all honesty he went for less than he probably wanted to, tapping this particular fund because that is exactly what the stadium project would fall under in terms of state money.

On this whole fleet thing, this is exactly why nobody trusts the local government. Penske and the big three, gave them good conditioned older vehicles and some new along with 8 million dollars to help upkeep recently. Now they claim none of it works, pretty odd. We are talking about something that happened in March. 100 cars, Roger Penske getting other corporations to handle the EMS portions of this along with Dan Gilbert and Quicken Loans and the first indication is they have completely botched the first donation with some of the things they are claiming right now. Promising stuff no? Yeah lets take the 13 million annual for building and city development and hand it over to the two most corrupt areas of Detroit, the Public School Board and Detroit Police Department. As a part of this bankruptcy I am hoping there is some pretty significant impact in terms of those areas of leadership, they desperately need a house cleaning.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 07-22-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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07-22-2013, 04:24 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by aemoreira1981 View Post
A Goldwater-type group should be prepared to try to find any way to block that money from the development fund on being spent on what is essentially sports welfare when the city has more pressing needs. That $283M would be better spent on expanding the police force, replacing end-of-life ambulances and other emergency response vehicles, and bringing the surviving fleet to a state of good repair.
That's not what a DDA is for, it exists to fuel development (ie beautify) downtown areas. This meets that criteria since it'll easily be the largest development in the city in decades.

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07-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #224
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I'd love to see someone challenge this corporate welfare scheme.
Why is it that people have no problem investing hundreds of millions of dollars so that the rich can get richer...
The trickledown effect here is pretty weak. A bunch of service industry jobs (minimum wage, part time) get created.

I really don't like the idea of investing public money in a private profit scheme.

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07-22-2013, 04:58 PM
  #225
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That is really more a choice, had a family member that attended there and another that attended University of Chicago, to say they don't care about local kids is probably a little more accurate. Northwestern is starting to advertise at them in sports, but in terms of their selection of students, there isn't a huge emphasis there. They have a national base, they are a private institution and have no reason not to take kids from everywhere based on just plain merit.

The shift at U of M really borders on an attempt to be like this. In my opinion it cannot last much longer before people take to task the absurdity of the amount of state money they take in and the trend they are currently on. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern and of course the Ivy's can do whatever they want. Even the premier public schools like UVA, UNC, UCLA, Cal Berkley, U of M need to have a certain in State presence and hold true to that.

I agree 100 percent. Another thing is that Northwestern is non existant, or the most invisible of the big 10 school. Michigan is one of the top 10 schools in the country. There has to be something to show for that to the state.

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