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Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-21-2013, 02:17 PM
  #501
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
"lowballing" Subban was never about his quality as a playrr. It was about MB's following his doctrine of bridge contract.

It might bite us in some cases (Subban) and it might save us Myer-like situation. Either way, breaking the doctrine will always leave the possibility for future RFA to compare themselves with Subban.

If you create a precedent, you open the door to mind games. If you make sure everyone has the same treatment, no one should take it personal.
Dumb to do this for several reasons:

1. If MB tries lowballing Galchenyuk the way he did Subban, he might find himself in a situation where the player demands a trade.

2. We lose the benefit of having that player under contract for a reasonable amount for a longer period of time.

3. It's not a good idea to piss off the players you looking to build with in the future.


If MB doesn't learn from this, then we're in trouble.

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Old
07-21-2013, 03:04 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Damned Flyers, lowballing Couturier with a bridging contract...
Glad you know the difference between the two situations. I was worried after your comparison of the contracts Price and Pacioretty received that you couldn't ascertain how neither of them compare to Subban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
"lowballing" Subban was never about his quality as a playrr. It was about MB's following his doctrine of bridge contract.

It might bite us in some cases (Subban) and it might save us Myer-like situation. Either way, breaking the doctrine will always leave the possibility for future RFA to compare themselves with Subban.

If you create a precedent, you open the door to mind games. If you make sure everyone has the same treatment, no one should take it personal.
What doctrine? The man gives out one bridge contract and now it's a doctrine? Why was he not given a contract based on his quality as a player? That idea, if true, is absurd.

I don't care about other players thinking they can compare themselves to Subban at the same stage in their careers. Let them try, and fail, to negotiate a contract based on what Subban could of received out of his ELC deal. What would of cemented this position would of been knowing that Subban would of won a Norris trophy in the same year he signs the deal, but of course that was impossible to foresee. In all the discussions I had about Subban before the deal was signed, I was certain that within the 6 years of the deal (that was what I would of given him) he would win a Norris. If any other player, finishing their ELC deal, thinks they are worth a long term deal and the management has reasonable expectations that said player could win a major award, or finish top 5 in scoring, etc. then give this kind of player a long term deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Creating an all encompassing strategy, without taking in account the skill level of certain players is fairly foolish.

This is business. If a player isn't good enough to deserve a long term contract out of his ELC, that's his problem. If he takes it personally, he's probably not going to survive in this league.

However, simply assuming that the bridge contract is the best way to go, no matter what, is really a weird concept IMO.

Most players that sign long term out of their ELC and that are elite like Subban, turn out fine.

There's always the Myers example, but I'd say (and I know I am not using this idiom properly) it's the exception that proves the rule. That and Myers is not on the level of the Subbans, Toews' and Kanes of the world.

It's not like Chicago, the very successful franchise in recent years where we poached Bergevin from, adheres to this rule.
Thanks for saying what I would of had to type

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07-21-2013, 03:20 PM
  #503
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07-21-2013, 03:55 PM
  #504
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God, I love him.

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Old
07-21-2013, 09:12 PM
  #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here are three examples of people taking things too seriously, not being able to recognize what this smiley means:

Your position has been clear on the matter, you can add a million sarcasm smileys it won't change a thing. You meant what you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Sarcasm sometimes goes right over some people's head.

To get back on topic though, Bergevin knew he would have to pay more and was willing to do so when he'll have more flexibility with the cap and instated a way of doing business. He did the right thing with the bridging contract.
That's completely stupid. There's absolutely no freaking way Bergevin thought he'd have to pay 6-8M in a year and a half. The cap flexibility is also unknown. He only has it if Gionta and Markov disappear, and that's banking on them not have two good seasons, otherwise he has no reason to get rid of them.

Your points on this matter make absolutely no sense whatsoever. They're all speculative and can easily be countered. Actually people have already smashed them apart but you just click on the ''repeat'' button.

Bergevin didn't know how good PK was, that's the only reason where this lowball bridge deal makes sense, because even if it's just a precedent as you say, signing a guy at 2.8M when you know he's worth more is dumb, and forcing it on him is even dumber.
So the 2.8M says it all. I'm sure he was hoping for PK to do good, but there's no way in hell he thought he was even close to being Norris potential yet. Otherwise it makes no sense to sign him to this 2.8M bridge deal. The fact you can't see that makes it pretty obvious you're just creating excuses for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
"lowballing" Subban was never about his quality as a playrr. It was about MB's following his doctrine of bridge contract.

It might bite us in some cases (Subban) and it might save us Myer-like situation. Either way, breaking the doctrine will always leave the possibility for future RFA to compare themselves with Subban.

If you create a precedent, you open the door to mind games. If you make sure everyone has the same treatment, no one should take it personal.
First of all, Bergevin was a rookie GM, he had no history. Actually, the organization he worked for signed guys to long term cheap deals after their ELC. They also understood that signing guys like Keith to a cheaper cap hit helps.

Second, say he was absolutely dead set on a bridge deal, then that's fine. I don't see how bridge deal=forcing a 2.8M cap hit on your #1 Dman.

Bergevin was clearly not sold on PK. He even said so himself if you can read between the lines.

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07-21-2013, 10:47 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Your position has been clear on the matter, you can add a million sarcasm smileys it won't change a thing. You meant what you said.
I know, I know. It's been several instances that you've known better than your interlocutor what he/she meant to say. It's rare skill I tell you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Your points on this matter make absolutely no sense whatsoever. They're all speculative and can easily be countered. Actually people have already smashed them apart but you just click on the ''repeat'' button.
Bla-bla-bla. There's a difference between my points not making sense and refusing to see those points, even though they're based on facts which, ironically, were lamely attempted to be shown as speculations. That's okay though, I know that I'm right (to borrow a line from one of the conspiracy theory supporters in this thread).

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07-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I know, I know. It's been several instances that you've known better than your interlocutor what he/she meant to say. It's rare skill I tell you.
Right...Because you didn't state that PK was in the same boat as MaxPac and Price before (which according to you was one reason why the bridge deal was offered. But that doesn't answer the incredibly low value) , nor did you make it clear that the bridge deal was the right thing to do for you..
I just imagined all those things. Funny because it seems others have imagined the same thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Bla-bla-bla. There's a difference between my points not making sense and refusing to see those points, even though they're based on facts which, ironically, were lamely attempted to be shown as speculations. That's okay though, I know that I'm right (to borrow a line from one of the conspiracy theory supporters in this thread).
Refusing to see those points? Your points are garbage. I disagree with every single one of them.
For someone that criticizes some people of not being capable of differentiating facts and opinions (speculations), you certainly have a hard time doing it yourself.

Here's a simple one for you:
Bergevin signed PK to a 2.8M cap hit for 2 years (Fact) - It was the right thing to do because it motivated PK (Speculation).
PK won the Norris (Fact) - It was in part because of the extra motivation of the forced bridge deal (Speculation)
It is completely irrelevant that your speculations are based on facts. They are garbage, have been easily shut down by others, you choose to ignore this, and keep spewing out the same crap. Not to mention make your lame and petty attempts of ridiculing those other posters.

Your act of trying to be witty and sarcastic is quite old.

You don't sign a player you think will be awesome at a 2.8M for 1 year and a half when he's already your top Dman. You just don't do that. For some reason that's just too hard for you to grasp.

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Old
07-22-2013, 03:49 AM
  #508
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Kriss,

It is hard to grasp because doing so would mean acknowledging the fallibility of Bergevin. Some fans do not want to do that, they want yo believe that there is a sound plan that will take us to the cup, that the new boss is not the same as the old boss, Bob Gainey.


Last edited by DAChampion: 07-22-2013 at 04:06 AM.
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Old
07-22-2013, 04:51 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Kriss,

It is hard to grasp because doing so would mean acknowledging the fallibility of Bergevin. Some fans do not want to do that, they want yo believe that there is a sound plan that will take us to the cup, that the new boss is not the same as the old boss, Bob Gainey.
maybe you should explain why everyone should agree with that, I'll guess though, it's insulting to said player and al'... right ?

like these guys (players and mngmt) live in the same "world" as you and me...

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07-22-2013, 05:55 AM
  #510
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He better sign Subban.

And while they are at it: Give him the C.

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Old
07-22-2013, 06:07 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
He better sign Subban.

And while they are at it: Give him the C.
why?

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Old
07-22-2013, 06:16 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
why?
Because he has been the face of the franchise for the past 3 years. When Gio's contract expires, I see him taking the lead. This is his team now.

Simple as that.

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07-22-2013, 06:29 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Because he has been the face of the franchise for the past 3 years. When Gio's contract expires, I see him taking the lead. This is his team now.

Simple as that.
that's it?

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07-22-2013, 07:47 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Right...Because you didn't state that PK was in the same boat as MaxPac and Price before (which according to you was one reason why the bridge deal was offered. But that doesn't answer the incredibly low value) , nor did you make it clear that the bridge deal was the right thing to do for you..
I just imagined all those things. Funny because it seems others have imagined the same thing...
Again, refusing to see the reality of the evidence I've brought up or brushing it off because you disagree doesn't make it any less valid. Put the shoe on the other foot... I disagree with your opinion on the matter. Should I also say that it's not valid? Perhaps.

The fact of the matter is that Pacioretty had finished a second season with the Habs, accumulating 24 points (14 goals) in 37 games. He was the Habs' top rated power forward, a huge lack on that team. While he may not have played Subban's minutes, he also didn't get $2.9M per season for his bridging deal, signing for $1.6M instead. Some will argue that Patches is the Habs best player (or forward), winning the scoring race on the team this past season.

Price? He had played pretty much 3 full seasons in the NHL by the time his ELC expired, stealing the starter's job from Huet. He had already won 60 NHL regular seasons' games and had a Sv% of about .915 at that stage in his career, including winning a Molson Cup, being named on the NHL All-Rookie Team and was an NHL All-Star and that's leaving out what he had done in junior and in the AHL! What more do you want? Yet, he signed a bridging contract at $2.75M for two years.

I know that you want to discredit both those players when comparing them to Subban but they were (and still are) key players on this team today and even though Bergevin did not sign those bridging contract, they obviously fit with his current and future plan for this franchise, meaning that we don't mind paying you what you'll be worth once we start buying some of your UFA years but in the mean time, a bridging contract is necessary. We won't take huge risks like they did with Myers in Buffalo and Skinner in Carolina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Refusing to see those points? Your points are garbage. I disagree with every single one of them.
For someone that criticizes some people of not being capable of differentiating facts and opinions (speculations), you certainly have a hard time doing it yourself.

Here's a simple one for you:
Bergevin signed PK to a 2.8M cap hit for 2 years (Fact) - It was the right thing to do because it motivated PK (Speculation).
PK won the Norris (Fact) - It was in part because of the extra motivation of the forced bridge deal (Speculation)
It is completely irrelevant that your speculations are based on facts. They are garbage, have been easily shut down by others, you choose to ignore this, and keep spewing out the same crap. Not to mention make your lame and petty attempts of ridiculing those other posters.

Your act of trying to be witty and sarcastic is quite old.

You don't sign a player you think will be awesome at a 2.8M for 1 year and a half when he's already your top Dman. You just don't do that. For some reason that's just too hard for you to grasp.
There you go again... because I disagree with you, you feel like my points are garbage. It's becoming a constant don't you think? I, on the other hand, respect your opinion even though I strongly disagree with it. I guess it comes with age, experience and maturity.

So let's see YOUR facts:
  1. PK signed for $2.8M. Well, it's almost $2.9M ($2.875M to be precise) but that's effectively a fact.
  2. PK won a Norris. Absolutely, I never denied it... but that happened AFTER the bridging contract.
So two facts, including one that's in hindsight. Pretty good. Here are the ones I've brought forward:
  1. Bergevin wants to instate a way of doing business with the bridging contract
  2. The cap will go down to a little over $60M next year, down from $70M+
  3. By the time Subban's contract is up, Gionta and Markov's contracts will be done, which will free up close to $11M on the cap, monies not available last year and this coming season as the cap is going down.
  4. With the revenues from this season, the salary cap is predicted to go back to around $70M from the $64M it will be next season, adding another $6M of cap space.
  5. PK is making almost $3M in cap hit ($2.875M), which means that the team will have close to $20M to sign Subban. Even if they give him $8M, they still have $12M to sign two players to replace Gionta and Markov, more than what they make now!
  6. Subban had issues in the dressing room, even fighting with teammates in practice
  7. Hockey is a business and feelings come second, meaning that feelings may appear to get hurt in the process but players and management know that it's not personal. That's why Plekanec re-signed after going to arbitration when the fan base was acting like you guys saying that he'd be pissed and leave at the first opportunity.
  8. Alex Galchenyuk is next on the highly rated list to have to go through this scenario. Seeing that Pacioretty, Price and Subban did the same, it will be a lot easier to make him swallow the bridging contract when his ELC expires as history is made.
  9. Gallagher will also be going through that, then Tinordi and others there after. The precedent is set.
  10. Now that he's proving himself and has improved, including winning the Norris, PK will be getting his big contract, something Bergevin has said not having a problem with.
But you're right though, I did make some speculations. I did say that at the time of negotiating his last contract, there was a risk for PK to have a drop in production (Myers & Skinner) and that he might have used this bridging contract as additional motivation to prove the Habs wrong. But I've never claimed that those were facts, not even once. It doesn't mean that it's not true or that it's false, it only means that there's no way to prove that unless we look in hindsight (Norris).

So is PK Subban a better deal at $5-6M per season for 5 years? If you look at last year and next, no but for the following 3 years, absolutely. But then again, if you take what was saved this year and next and deduct it off Subban's next contract for the next 3 years, it makes those 3 years more affordable and closer. Here's an example:

$2.875M + $2.875M + $8M + $8M + $8M = $29.75M
$5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M = $27.5M

So you have a difference of about $2M total over the length of the 5 years and yet, you save the dollars when the cap will be at its tightest, next season! I truly and genuinely feel like the bridging contract was the right thing to do.

So you and the others can go on a Bergevin witch hunt all you want, but in my opinion, while I recognize, appreciate and respect your opinion, I feel like not only was he justified with his actions, but he was right in doing so. Subban is now maturing as a player, as a man, and he's buying into the team concept or so it seems. Great, he will be that much better for the Habs.

So you may call that garbage all you want Kriss, but it isn't, at least not in my (and others) eyes.

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Old
07-22-2013, 07:57 AM
  #515
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$2.875M + $2.875M + $8M + $8M + $8M = $29.75M
$5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M = $27.5M


I think that this is the best way to look at it.
I also think that the values are pretty realistic as well.
I see PK signing for 7.5 * 5 .... maybe 7?

People are really quick to say "oh.... should have signed the long term deal" but they forget about the 2 years that have been discounted.

In the end, you pay more, but you don't have the risk. Imagine if they had dished out the 5.5 and then he became the Ron Hainsey type player? P.K. still had a bust factor about him going into the season. He proved his worth, and the Canadiens will be happy to pay him what he's worth.

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07-22-2013, 07:59 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Complete nonsense.

You don't need to be a mathematician to be a capologist, ideally, the GM should be the capologist, and should have basic arithmetic skills.

It's not that hard a job, just numbers and rules. Though -- Bergevin does come from the management tradition in Chicago that didn't know about qualifying offers.

Bergevin hands out dollars like candy without a second thought -- to everybody except Subban.
You can't be serious...

and Chicago has a management tradition that doesn't know anything about qualifying offers?

Dear God...the entitlement from fans these days has reached unbearable levels.

Again, just cause you can read charts on capgeek.com doesn't make you qualified to run a team

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07-22-2013, 08:07 AM
  #517
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Again, refusing to see the reality of the evidence I've brought up or brushing it off because you disagree doesn't make it any less valid. Put the shoe on the other foot... I disagree with your opinion on the matter. Should I also say that it's not valid? Perhaps.

The fact of the matter is that Pacioretty had finished a second season with the Habs, accumulating 24 points (14 goals) in 37 games. He was the Habs' top rated power forward, a huge lack on that team. While he may not have played Subban's minutes, he also didn't get $2.9M per season for his bridging deal, signing for $1.6M instead. Some will argue that Patches is the Habs best player (or forward), winning the scoring race on the team this past season.

Price? He had played pretty much 3 full seasons in the NHL by the time his ELC expired, stealing the starter's job from Huet. He had already won 60 NHL regular seasons' games and had a Sv% of about .915 at that stage in his career, including winning a Molson Cup, being named on the NHL All-Rookie Team and was an NHL All-Star and that's leaving out what he had done in junior and in the AHL! What more do you want? Yet, he signed a bridging contract at $2.75M for two years.

I know that you want to discredit both those players when comparing them to Subban but they were (and still are) key players on this team today and even though Bergevin did not sign those bridging contract, they obviously fit with his current and future plan for this franchise, meaning that we don't mind paying you what you'll be worth once we start buying some of your UFA years but in the mean time, a bridging contract is necessary. We won't take huge risks like they did with Myers in Buffalo and Skinner in Carolina.


There you go again... because I disagree with you, you feel like my points are garbage. It's becoming a constant don't you think? I, on the other hand, respect your opinion even though I strongly disagree with it. I guess it comes with age, experience and maturity.

So let's see YOUR facts:
  1. PK signed for $2.8M. Well, it's almost $2.9M ($2.875M to be precise) but that's effectively a fact.
  2. PK won a Norris. Absolutely, I never denied it... but that happened AFTER the bridging contract.
So two facts, including one that's in hindsight. Pretty good. Here are the ones I've brought forward:
  1. Bergevin wants to instate a way of doing business with the bridging contract
  2. The cap will go down to a little over $60M next year, down from $70M+
  3. By the time Subban's contract is up, Gionta and Markov's contracts will be done, which will free up close to $11M on the cap, monies not available last year and this coming season as the cap is going down.
  4. With the revenues from this season, the salary cap is predicted to go back to around $70M from the $64M it will be next season, adding another $6M of cap space.
  5. PK is making almost $3M in cap hit ($2.875M), which means that the team will have close to $20M to sign Subban. Even if they give him $8M, they still have $12M to sign two players to replace Gionta and Markov, more than what they make now!
  6. Subban had issues in the dressing room, even fighting with teammates in practice
  7. Hockey is a business and feelings come second, meaning that feelings may appear to get hurt in the process but players and management know that it's not personal. That's why Plekanec re-signed after going to arbitration when the fan base was acting like you guys saying that he'd be pissed and leave at the first opportunity.
  8. Alex Galchenyuk is next on the highly rated list to have to go through this scenario. Seeing that Pacioretty, Price and Subban did the same, it will be a lot easier to make him swallow the bridging contract when his ELC expires as history is made.
  9. Gallagher will also be going through that, then Tinordi and others there after. The precedent is set.
  10. Now that he's proving himself and has improved, including winning the Norris, PK will be getting his big contract, something Bergevin has said not having a problem with.
But you're right though, I did make some speculations. I did say that at the time of negotiating his last contract, there was a risk for PK to have a drop in production (Myers & Skinner) and that he might have used this bridging contract as additional motivation to prove the Habs wrong. But I've never claimed that those were facts, not even once. It doesn't mean that it's not true or that it's false, it only means that there's no way to prove that unless we look in hindsight (Norris).

So is PK Subban a better deal at $5-6M per season for 5 years? If you look at last year and next, no but for the following 3 years, absolutely. But then again, if you take what was saved this year and next and deduct it off Subban's next contract for the next 3 years, it makes those 3 years more affordable and closer. Here's an example:

$2.875M + $2.875M + $8M + $8M + $8M = $29.75M
$5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M = $27.5M

So you have a difference of about $2M total over the length of the 5 years and yet, you save the dollars when the cap will be at its tightest, next season! I truly and genuinely feel like the bridging contract was the right thing to do.

So you and the others can go on a Bergevin witch hunt all you want, but in my opinion, while I recognize, appreciate and respect your opinion, I feel like not only was he justified with his actions, but he was right in doing so. Subban is now maturing as a player, as a man, and he's buying into the team concept or so it seems. Great, he will be that much better for the Habs.

So you may call that garbage all you want Kriss, but it isn't, at least not in my (and others) eyes.
Fantastic post!!

There is no point in me posting now......it would look like I plagiarised your work. I have to commend you on your patience as it truly is remarkable.

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07-22-2013, 08:15 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Kriss,

It is hard to grasp because doing so would mean acknowledging the fallibility of Bergevin. Some fans do not want to do that, they want yo believe that there is a sound plan that will take us to the cup, that the new boss is not the same as the old boss, Bob Gainey.
The irony here is too good to ignore lol

Gainey has been vilified on this board for just handing out money like candy

Now we've got MB who's doing the opposite (at least in relation to Subban) and he's ben knocked for it

Like I been saying...you guys are just looking for something, anything to complain.

There will always be a segment of the fanbase who think they know best and the guy running the show is clueless.

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07-22-2013, 08:15 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by lillypad33 View Post
In the end, you pay more, but you don't have the risk. Imagine if they had dished out the 5.5 and then he became the Ron Hainsey type player? P.K. still had a bust factor about him going into the season. He proved his worth, and the Canadiens will be happy to pay him what he's worth.
This is exactly the point that people on here can't seem to grasp. Taking risks on free agents can sink teams when 1 or more of these moves don't work out favourably. The whole point of having controllable players in RFA negotiations is that the team is given tools to mitigate that risk by making prudent decisions.

Bergevin did exactly that and has successfully set the stage for future negotiations where players will know that they will have to prove themselves before getting the big contract. The team will not be held over a barrel on the speculation of future accomplishments.

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07-22-2013, 08:17 AM
  #520
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Again, refusing to see the reality of the evidence I've brought up or brushing it off because you disagree doesn't make it any less valid. Put the shoe on the other foot... I disagree with your opinion on the matter. Should I also say that it's not valid? Perhaps.

The fact of the matter is that Pacioretty had finished a second season with the Habs, accumulating 24 points (14 goals) in 37 games. He was the Habs' top rated power forward, a huge lack on that team. While he may not have played Subban's minutes, he also didn't get $2.9M per season for his bridging deal, signing for $1.6M instead. Some will argue that Patches is the Habs best player (or forward), winning the scoring race on the team this past season.

Price? He had played pretty much 3 full seasons in the NHL by the time his ELC expired, stealing the starter's job from Huet. He had already won 60 NHL regular seasons' games and had a Sv% of about .915 at that stage in his career, including winning a Molson Cup, being named on the NHL All-Rookie Team and was an NHL All-Star and that's leaving out what he had done in junior and in the AHL! What more do you want? Yet, he signed a bridging contract at $2.75M for two years.

I know that you want to discredit both those players when comparing them to Subban but they were (and still are) key players on this team today and even though Bergevin did not sign those bridging contract, they obviously fit with his current and future plan for this franchise, meaning that we don't mind paying you what you'll be worth once we start buying some of your UFA years but in the mean time, a bridging contract is necessary. We won't take huge risks like they did with Myers in Buffalo and Skinner in Carolina.


There you go again... because I disagree with you, you feel like my points are garbage. It's becoming a constant don't you think? I, on the other hand, respect your opinion even though I strongly disagree with it. I guess it comes with age, experience and maturity.

So let's see YOUR facts:
  1. PK signed for $2.8M. Well, it's almost $2.9M ($2.875M to be precise) but that's effectively a fact.
  2. PK won a Norris. Absolutely, I never denied it... but that happened AFTER the bridging contract.
So two facts, including one that's in hindsight. Pretty good. Here are the ones I've brought forward:
  1. Bergevin wants to instate a way of doing business with the bridging contract
  2. The cap will go down to a little over $60M next year, down from $70M+
  3. By the time Subban's contract is up, Gionta and Markov's contracts will be done, which will free up close to $11M on the cap, monies not available last year and this coming season as the cap is going down.
  4. With the revenues from this season, the salary cap is predicted to go back to around $70M from the $64M it will be next season, adding another $6M of cap space.
  5. PK is making almost $3M in cap hit ($2.875M), which means that the team will have close to $20M to sign Subban. Even if they give him $8M, they still have $12M to sign two players to replace Gionta and Markov, more than what they make now!
  6. Subban had issues in the dressing room, even fighting with teammates in practice
  7. Hockey is a business and feelings come second, meaning that feelings may appear to get hurt in the process but players and management know that it's not personal. That's why Plekanec re-signed after going to arbitration when the fan base was acting like you guys saying that he'd be pissed and leave at the first opportunity.
  8. Alex Galchenyuk is next on the highly rated list to have to go through this scenario. Seeing that Pacioretty, Price and Subban did the same, it will be a lot easier to make him swallow the bridging contract when his ELC expires as history is made.
  9. Gallagher will also be going through that, then Tinordi and others there after. The precedent is set.
  10. Now that he's proving himself and has improved, including winning the Norris, PK will be getting his big contract, something Bergevin has said not having a problem with.
But you're right though, I did make some speculations. I did say that at the time of negotiating his last contract, there was a risk for PK to have a drop in production (Myers & Skinner) and that he might have used this bridging contract as additional motivation to prove the Habs wrong. But I've never claimed that those were facts, not even once. It doesn't mean that it's not true or that it's false, it only means that there's no way to prove that unless we look in hindsight (Norris).

So is PK Subban a better deal at $5-6M per season for 5 years? If you look at last year and next, no but for the following 3 years, absolutely. But then again, if you take what was saved this year and next and deduct it off Subban's next contract for the next 3 years, it makes those 3 years more affordable and closer. Here's an example:

$2.875M + $2.875M + $8M + $8M + $8M = $29.75M
$5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M + $5.5M = $27.5M

So you have a difference of about $2M total over the length of the 5 years and yet, you save the dollars when the cap will be at its tightest, next season! I truly and genuinely feel like the bridging contract was the right thing to do.

So you and the others can go on a Bergevin witch hunt all you want, but in my opinion, while I recognize, appreciate and respect your opinion, I feel like not only was he justified with his actions, but he was right in doing so. Subban is now maturing as a player, as a man, and he's buying into the team concept or so it seems. Great, he will be that much better for the Habs.

So you may call that garbage all you want Kriss, but it isn't, at least not in my (and others) eyes.
... damn it, now you make me respect you as a writer again.

You will pay for this!!!

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07-22-2013, 08:21 AM
  #521
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The irony here is too good to ignore lol

Gainey has been vilified on this board for just handing out money like candy

Now we've got MB who's doing the opposite (at least in relation to Subban) and he's ben knocked for it

Like I been saying...you guys are just looking for something, anything to complain.

There will always be a segment of the fanbase who think they know best and the guy running the show is clueless.
You would think that after a while, One would question why they never seem to be on the same page as the experts......

Most of the arguments that I have read here that are taking shots at Bergevin come off as juvenile whining without any plausible alternatives.

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07-22-2013, 08:30 AM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You would think that after a while, One would question why they never seem to be on the same page as the experts......

Most of the arguments that I have read here that are taking shots at Bergevin come off as juvenile whining without any plausible alternatives.
In this case there was a plausible alternative.

Lock up Subban long term last summer.

Bergevin was wrong in his underestimation of Subban. He made a mistake, hopefully he doesn't make too many like it.

I hope he doesn't repeat the error with Galchenyuk.

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07-22-2013, 08:33 AM
  #523
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
In this case there was a plausible alternative.

Lock up Subban long term last summer.

Bergevin was wrong in his underestimation of Subban. He made a mistake, hopefully he doesn't make too many like it.

I hope he doesn't repeat the error with Galchenyuk.
Or Chuckie simply signs another bridge contract, and gets signed long-term when it ends.

Where's the drama?

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07-22-2013, 08:33 AM
  #524
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
An understanding of projected increase in league revenu so you can anticipate future cap space.

A good knowledge of impeding contract ends. Projection of your prospect promotions. Relation with your players' agents.

Etc. etc.
It's not rocket science bro.

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07-22-2013, 08:36 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Or Chuckie simply signs another bridge contract, and gets signed long-term when it ends.

Where's the drama?
Option 1:
Chuckie for 2 years @ 4 million, then 8 years @ 8.0 million.

Option 2:
Chuckie for 8 years @ 6 million, no bridge contract

The advantage of option #2 is that we show trust in a young player, and we save ~2.0 million/year for six years.

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