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Old
07-22-2013, 10:33 AM
  #51
Tim Murray
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
o ya I forgot Jarius Byrd wasnt happening.
The point is that you have no idea what is going on internally in these negotiations and further, (and this shoud go without saying), what is happenning inside a player's head.

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07-22-2013, 01:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mogilny 89 View Post
The point is that you have no idea what is going on internally in these negotiations and further, (and this shoud go without saying), what is happenning inside a player's head.
Umm the point is its a similar situation to what I'm implying will happen if they treat Hodgson like a top center when he hasn't yet shown he can be a teams #1 center, soooo I'm saying that I can read into this situation because Jarius Byrd's agent has a similar reputation to Hodgson's agent, and I never once attempted to get inside Hodgson's head only the agent, who, if you remember, did the same thing TWICE with Hasek. We don't need to infer what he's thinking we've already been there.


Last edited by Chainshot: 07-22-2013 at 02:17 PM. Reason: No need for the personal shot
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07-22-2013, 02:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Umm the point is its a similar situation to what I'm implying will happen if they treat Hodgson like a top center when he hasn't yet shown he can be a teams #1 center, soooo I'm saying that I can read into this situation because Jarius Byrd's agent has a similar reputation to Hodgson's agent, and I never once attempted to get inside Hodgson's head only the agent, who, if you remember, did the same thing TWICE with Hasek. We don't need to infer what he's thinking we've already been there. .
Regier will have to temper the off-hand possibility that a long-term 2nd deal bites him like it did with Myers vs. the possibility that a 6 or 7 year deal at a $5-ish million cap hit could give them a key cog long-term. Heck, how much risk ccoul they tolerate to lob an 8-year, $4.75-$5.25M/year deal at him. Guaranteed money? Getting a competent offensive center who is at worst a #2 for years and at best rounds into the all-situations, all-purpose #1 we saw in junior.... for 8 years? It's tempting.

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07-22-2013, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Regier will have to temper the off-hand possibility that a long-term 2nd deal bites him like it did with Myers vs. the possibility that a 6 or 7 year deal at a $5-ish million cap hit could give them a key cog long-term. Heck, how much risk ccoul they tolerate to lob an 8-year, $4.75-$5.25M/year deal at him. Guaranteed money? Getting a competent offensive center who is at worst a #2 for years and at best rounds into the all-situations, all-purpose #1 we saw in junior.... for 8 years? It's tempting.
I'd roll the dice on a deal like that working out pretty well ala the deal that they gave Roy.

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07-22-2013, 02:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
I'd roll the dice on a deal like that working out pretty well ala the deal that they gave Roy.
Yep. And putting in an 8th year? Cost certainty for the club, guaranteed money for the player.

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07-22-2013, 02:15 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Umm the point is its a similar situation to what I'm implying will happen if they treat Hodgson like a top center when he hasn't yet shown he can be a teams #1 center, soooo I'm saying that I can read into this situation because Jarius Byrd's agent has a similar reputation to Hodgson's agent, and I never once attempted to get inside Hodgson's head only the agent, who, if you remember, did the same thing TWICE with Hasek. We don't need to infer what he's thinking we've already been there.
We have zero idea of what either side is thinking here. Draw whatever parallels you like, none of them have any real world relevance here. That is, unless you know Hodgson personally and know what people are "whispering" to him and what he thinks of it.

That's the point.

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07-22-2013, 02:25 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Regier will have to temper the off-hand possibility that a long-term 2nd deal bites him like it did with Myers vs. the possibility that a 6 or 7 year deal at a $5-ish million cap hit could give them a key cog long-term. Heck, how much risk ccoul they tolerate to lob an 8-year, $4.75-$5.25M/year deal at him. Guaranteed money? Getting a competent offensive center who is at worst a #2 for years and at best rounds into the all-situations, all-purpose #1 we saw in junior.... for 8 years? It's tempting.
At worst your #2 center? That's fairly hopeful. He wouldn't be a #2 on a good team as it stands now. He'd be best suited for a #3, easy matchup situation. In an ideal world, Grigs and Girgs both surpass the level he is at now. There is no reason to give this kid something he hasn't earned. Let him earn his money with competition chasing him down. See where he stands in two years.

Also, there is a big difference between Myers getting that big contract early and Hodgson. Myers had actually played his way into that contract. Hodgson hasn't done anything yet.

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07-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #58
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At worst your #2 center? That's fairly hopeful. He wouldn't be a #2 on a good team as it stands now. He'd be best suited for a #3, easy matchup situation. In an ideal world, Grigs and Girgs both surpass the level he is at now. There is no reason to give this kid something he hasn't earned. Let him earn his money with competition chasing him down.
We appear to be talking about the same thing -- 2nd line as in, the "other" offensive start center. They have players to slot in as checking guys from Larsson to Girgensons to Kea or Compher. At worst, he's got the early-Roy thing mastered, back when Vanek, Roy, Afinogenov got the cake minutes behind the Briere line (#1) and the Drury line (checking).

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07-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
We appear to be talking about the same thing -- 2nd line as in, the "other" offensive start center. They have players to slot in as checking guys from Larsson to Girgensons to Kea or Compher. At worst, he's got the early-Roy thing mastered, back when Vanek, Roy, Afinogenov got the cake minutes behind the Briere line (#1) and the Drury line (checking).
Fair enough. I still think you have to let the kid earn it. If he goes out and becomes a $7 million center, good for him. Tpegs has him covered. But if other players run him down, I dont want to feel tied to anyone. I want to be able to choose who I want to move forward with.

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07-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
We appear to be talking about the same thing -- 2nd line as in, the "other" offensive start center. They have players to slot in as checking guys from Larsson to Girgensons to Kea or Compher. At worst, he's got the early-Roy thing mastered, back when Vanek, Roy, Afinogenov got the cake minutes behind the Briere line (#1) and the Drury line (checking).
If he ends up being a 60 to 70 point per year 2nd offensive center, that's worth around $5M per year moving forward.

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07-22-2013, 02:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Fair enough. I still think you have to let the kid earn it. If he goes out and becomes a $7 million center, good for him. Tpegs has him covered. But if other players run him down, I dont want to feel tied to anyone. I want to be able to choose who I want to move forward with.
Yeah, there is risk built into giving out a non-bridge 2nd deal, as we saw with Myers' injury-fest. And if he does turn out to be a $7 million dollar player, and they have him locked in at an economic-rate, they win.

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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
If he ends up being a 60 to 70 point per year 2nd offensive center, that's worth around $5M per year moving forward.
Is it even that much? Gagner just got a deal around $5M and is a regular mid-40 point player.

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07-22-2013, 02:55 PM
  #62
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Is it even that much? Gagner just got a deal around $5M and is a regular mid-40 point player.
True, but I think he got massively overpaid given his production.


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07-22-2013, 03:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
At worst your #2 center? That's fairly hopeful. He wouldn't be a #2 on a good team as it stands now. He'd be best suited for a #3, easy matchup situation. In an ideal world, Grigs and Girgs both surpass the level he is at now. There is no reason to give this kid something he hasn't earned. Let him earn his money with competition chasing him down. See where he stands in two years.

Also, there is a big difference between Myers getting that big contract early and Hodgson. Myers had actually played his way into that contract. Hodgson hasn't done anything yet.
Depending on who you consider centers... He ranks 19th-23rd in scoring among centers last year.

At 23 yrs old, to claim he wouldn't be a #2 on a good team strains credulity.

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07-22-2013, 03:09 PM
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If he ends up being a 60 to 70 point per year 2nd offensive center, that's worth around $5M per year moving forward.
it's worth a lot more actually

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07-22-2013, 06:18 PM
  #65
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I would think that the Gagner and Little contracts would be a good basis for the AAV of a Hodgson contract.

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07-22-2013, 06:24 PM
  #66
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I think he can progress wl still at a 2C role. He can still pick up some good habits from other players and progress.

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07-22-2013, 06:27 PM
  #67
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I would think that the Gagner and Little contracts would be a good basis for the AAV of a Hodgson contract.
They are not a good comparison. Little and Gagner had more leverage (arbitration rights) where Hodgson did not.

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07-22-2013, 06:57 PM
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They are not a good comparison. Little and Gagner had more leverage (arbitration rights) where Hodgson did not.
Both the Little and Gagner contracts bought some UFA years and a long-term contract for Hodgson would do the same. If we're simply talking a couple years bridge than you'd want a 2 or 3 year deal for around 3.5ish; however, a max term of 8 years would be at the Gagner / Little numbers.

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07-22-2013, 07:03 PM
  #69
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oh... right....
Nice comeback! He's not a great skater - you want to alleviate him of any and all flaws?

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07-22-2013, 07:39 PM
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Nice comeback! He's not a great skater - you want to alleviate him of any and all flaws?
I don't think his skating is an issue. I was mocking the contradiction in your statement.

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07-22-2013, 07:46 PM
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Nice comeback! He's not a great skater - you want to alleviate him of any and all flaws?
Who cares! If Hodgy is playing good hockey, does it matter if he's a great skater or not????? The stuff people complain about a player is laughable.

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07-22-2013, 08:20 PM
  #72
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I don't think his skating is an issue. I was mocking the contradiction in your statement.
It wasn't a contradiction. His skating is the weakest part of his game, but in spite of that he is still an effective player--his game doesn't rely on him skating like the wind. It is based more on his tremendous offensive awareness in reading plays, making smart decisions, and getting to the right spot of the ice to make a play.

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07-22-2013, 08:31 PM
  #73
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6 years, 4.5 million is what I'd like but it'll probably be a higher AAV or shorter contract.

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07-22-2013, 11:23 PM
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Could it be the fanbase is sore because they traded Hodgson away? Canucks fans know Hodgson's a good player and the ones that don't actually believe that are naive. The ones that say this kind of thing, to me, are just sour because they lost a good player and that player isn't on their team anymore.

What is the big reason why most Sabres fans have hated Daniel Briere for so many years? Because he's not a Sabre anymore. Him playing for the Flyers on a colossal contract didn't help means but most fans get upset when a good player they like leaves their team. They then proceed to bash the player and say things like "he wasn't any good anyway" and worship any new pieces they may have received for him in a trade or worship the good players the team still has and say "we don't need Player X, we have Player Y who is better anyway", which is all the fans trying to make themselves feel better in the first place. It's all bogus and sore feelings that the player doesn't play for them anymore.

One thing I just remembered was that rumor has it Hodgson asked for a trade out of Vancouver, which could have gotten Canucks fans riled up. But can you blame him? He had Sedin and Kesler in front of him and knew he would never get top-six minutes at center unless he got out. Hodgson did not pull a Heatley on Vancouver, so much of their hate has to do with them being sore because he's a good player that no longer plays for them IMO. If they had traded Cam Barker, I doubt they'd have the same feelings.
This is completely wrong. Bogus is your random conclusions based on assumptions.

Hodgson was traded because his Dad/agent was overly aggressive with his expectations. He demanded Hodg get more playing time, then requested to be traded to the east. He also blamed management for a misdiagnosis of his back injury, but really for the Canucks, Cody's father was demanding a lot of attention and they didn't have to think about it much when he requested a trade.

Their fans like Kassian; more the style of player needed atm.

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07-22-2013, 11:42 PM
  #75
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5$ mil AAV would be a decent deal with retrospect to the Gagner deal, not as good in regards to the Duchene deal (6$ mil AAV).

4$ - 4.5$ in a long term deal would be ideal but really in the big picture who am I to be complaining about 500k$ in cap space.

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