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Building Through The Draft - Realistically

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Old
07-22-2013, 09:43 AM
  #26
Matteus
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I think our line-up at center will be made of: Gally, Eller, DLR and Vail.

I haven't seen a mix of skill and size like that in the middle for I don't know how long in Montreal

What I'd like to add to the picture, a couple of Mike McPhee types on the wings (for those with long memories) and a big, physical D-man reliable enough to give top-4 minutes.

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Old
07-22-2013, 10:39 AM
  #27
LeHabsMan
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Beaulieu in two or three years. So you think he is going to be in NHL in 2015-16?
Collberg in 2015-16?
Bournival in 2015-16?

So basically, none of our prospects will be NHL ready in the next two or three years.

Should we fire TT?
Beaulieu should be ready for the NHL full time while being a top 4 in 2 seasons max 3.
Bournival should be an NHL regular in 3 but will get call-ups or be the extra forward before. Collberg needs to adapt to Northa American ice. 1 year in Sweden, then another in the AHL then the NHL. There is no point in rushing our prospects.

No need to fire TT.

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07-22-2013, 10:46 AM
  #28
montreal
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Originally Posted by Matteus View Post
My intention was more to see how you HFers feel about the timelines. The names mentioned in the OP reflects what we have and I don't see this group hitting the ice together until four years from now.

That being said, that's an interesting mix if most of them reach their potential.

But MB will have to hit a home run or two if he's going to put together a contender sooner than that.
It's very difficult to guess how much a prospect will progress each year, or how others will adjust to their first pro season.

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07-22-2013, 11:35 AM
  #29
Uber Coca
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Most of those prospects will bust. Building through the draft is a way of saying that Bergevin won't sign lucrative contracts with aging players. He'll mostly build around the present core via the draft or trade. All in all, the chances of seeing most of the prospect you listed on this team are low.

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Old
07-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #30
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Beaulieu in two or three years. So you think he is going to be in NHL in 2015-16?
Collberg in 2015-16?
Bournival in 2015-16?

So basically, none of our prospects will be NHL ready in the next two or three years.

Should we fire TT?
The average age that a hockey player becomes an NHL regular is 23. It's even higher on good teams.

That said....the Habs had a couple of prospects become regulars last year...Tinordi and Dumont will likely be the young players who "graduate" this coming season...in 2014-15 it may well be Bournival, Thomas and NB, but who knows who will surprise or disappoint.

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Old
07-22-2013, 01:59 PM
  #31
Roulin
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
The average age that a hockey player becomes an NHL regular is 23. It's even higher on good teams.

That said....the Habs had a couple of prospects become regulars last year...Tinordi and Dumont will likely be the young players who "graduate" this coming season...in 2014-15 it may well be Bournival, Thomas and NB, but who knows who will surprise or disappoint.
True, the average is 23, but the mode is 20... given what they've shown so far, do you think it's unreasonable to expect Collberg and Hudon to compete for a spot in 2014-15?

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Old
07-22-2013, 02:05 PM
  #32
Dagistitsyn
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
True, the average is 23, but the mode is 20... given what they've shown so far, do you think it's unreasonable to expect Collberg and Hudon to compete for a spot in 2014-15?
Hudon should fit right in.

Andrighetto as well. We're getting smaller.

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Old
07-22-2013, 02:09 PM
  #33
Roulin
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Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
Hudon should fit right in.

Andrighetto as well. We're getting smaller.
Haha, well, I imagine it would be to replace Gionta, so...

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Old
07-22-2013, 02:11 PM
  #34
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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You're taking this too seriously. The core is drafted: Price PK Alex, some depth will come from drafts but some will be other acquisitions when we're in better shape.

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Old
07-22-2013, 02:14 PM
  #35
AJMHABS
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
Kane lite would be unflipping real.

I heard Nystrom was really good too. Any thoughts on him?
With Galchenyuk (Toews) and Collberg (Kane), we will be the next Chicago.

But in all seriousness, Kane-lite would be a great upside for Collberg, although harder to achieve.

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Old
07-22-2013, 02:52 PM
  #36
Habsoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Timelines:

1. Tinordi 2013-14
2. Beaulieu 2014-15
3. LeBlanc 2014-15
4. Nygren 2014-15
5. Collberg 2014-15
6. McCarron 2015-16
7. De La Rose 2016-17
Thinking ur gonna see Jacob before 2016, maybe not full time!

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Old
07-22-2013, 04:10 PM
  #37
CrAzYNiNe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Timelines:

1. Tinordi 2013-14
2. Beaulieu 2014-15
3. LeBlanc 2014-15
4. Nygren 2014-15
5. Collberg 2014-15
6. McCarron 2015-16
7. De La Rose 2016-17
4 rookies in the same year? When was the last time that happened to a contending team?

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Old
07-23-2013, 09:27 AM
  #38
Wandering Maroon
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
Most of those prospects will bust. Building through the draft is a way of saying that Bergevin won't sign lucrative contracts with aging players. He'll mostly build around the present core via the draft or trade. All in all, the chances of seeing most of the prospect you listed on this team are low.
I forgot that you have a crystal ball that can see everything that will happen over the next 5 years! Unless the player is Richard, Beliveau or Lafleur, the posters on this board find a way to put a prospect down. Not every prospect will turn out but not everyone will bust.

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Old
07-23-2013, 09:41 AM
  #39
odishabs
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
4 rookies in the same year? When was the last time that happened to a contending team?
Ottawa

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Old
07-23-2013, 10:16 AM
  #40
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think people take 'building through the draft' too literal. It can include drafting and developing prospects and using them to trade as well - see Sens with the Ryan trade. You can't make those types of trades without building up organizational depth with quality prospects other teams actually want and you have expendable.
I was just going to post that. Drafting well also includes having very good young players close to NHL ready that you can trade for missing pieces on a contender. Even if the Habs contend before the 2013 draft class is ready(in 3-5 years) those are still valuable assets either to come in and keep the Habs at or near the top or as excellent assets to trade if needed.

The logical ETA for the Habs to be a top 5 team year in and year out is in about 2 years with Galchenyuk as #2(growing in to #1) or #1 center. The window is really open at that point with Tinordi and Beaulieu also approaching their prime on defense and hopefully Price more consistent as a top 5 NHL goalie year in and year out. Guys like Gorges Plekanec Emelin Diaz will still be in their primes. Gionta and Markov, one maybe both will have moved on.

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Old
07-23-2013, 10:34 AM
  #41
bsl
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
I
A few added parts and i can honestly see a contender by 2020. Might take a while but it would be a balanced team that is actually built for the playoffs.
2020. Unbelievable. Have you been following the NHL the last ten years? Seems not. This is a really frustrating post you have made, in the context of some excellent threads recently.

1. I've been saying on this board for 6 months now that the NHL has shifted primarily, with some exceptions for star vets, from a 25-35 year age league, to a 21 to 31 year age league. If you do not agree, go look at the last 5 cup winners. Also, there was an extensive thread on this already, and most guys here agreed on this trend, and provided solid evidence for it. Where were you during this debate? Or did you just not get it?

Every single team is in this situation with young guys now. Meaning at least a few of the guys we drafted last year, this year and maybe next year HAVE to pan out in 2, 3 and 4 years respectively, or we miss our window. Why do we miss our window? Because:

2. UH. Re bold above: Price, Subban and Max will no longer be with Habs in 2020, or may not be effective. Max will be done at 32, Subby will be well past his prime at 32, could be great, but could be done also. Price may be a star at 32 but he'll leave in 5 years when his contract is up. The window with them is 2014-2019 at the latest.

How hard is this to understand? My contention is the following: There is no longer a 5-6 year development period for draftees in the NHL. Your pick makes it in 4 years, or he is done, with some exceptions of course, but not many. And I think this likely applies to big D men too. It applies to every skater. Only Goalies are an exception, and that may change also.


Last edited by bsl: 07-23-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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Old
07-23-2013, 11:08 AM
  #42
bsl
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Timelines:

1. Tinordi 2013-14
2. Beaulieu 2014-15
3. LeBlanc 2014-15
4. Nygren 2014-15
5. Collberg 2014-15
6. McCarron 2015-16
7. De La Rose 2016-17
Get real on LL. This is LL's last chance. He will be gone if he does not make the NHL this year, out of camp, or very soon after. Too many very good 21 year olds in the NHL now to hang on to LL. He'll be surpassed, like Gally absolutely torched him last year. Give it up on LL. It's embarrassing. If he is returned to AHL from camp, or is not playing for Habs by Christmas, he is done. I won't hold my breath for this stupid waste of a first round pick.

If DLR does not make it in 2 years, he's gone also.


Last edited by bsl: 07-23-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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Old
07-23-2013, 11:15 AM
  #43
Dagistitsyn
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Get real on LL. This is LL's last chance. He will be gone if he does not make the NHL this year, out of camp, or very soon after. Too many very good 21 year olds in the NHL now to hang on to LL. He'll be surpassed, like Gally absolutely torched him last year. Give it up on LL. It's embarrassing. If he is returned to AHL from camp, or is not playing by Christmas, he is done.

If DLR does not make it in 2 years, he's gone also.
Kind of agree on Leblanc. He needs to show something. This is his last year and then he will be traded..
but why on earth would be DLR only have 2 years? He was JUST drafted.

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07-23-2013, 11:20 AM
  #44
yianik
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Get real on LL. This is LL's last chance. He will be gone if he does not make the NHL this year, out of camp, or very soon after. Too many very good 21 year olds in the NHL now to hang on to LL. He'll be surpassed, like Gally absolutely torched him last year. Give it up on LL. It's embarrassing. If he is returned to AHL from camp, or is not playing for Habs by Christmas, he is done. I won't hold my breath for this stupid waste of a first round pick.

If DLR does not make it in 2 years, he's gone also.
Don't think LL needs to make it out of camp, but agree that he needs to show enough to be a call up this year and that he is back on track. Like any prospect DLR needs to show progress but disagree that he has 2 years to make the team or he is gone.

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Old
07-23-2013, 11:21 AM
  #45
bsl
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
Kane lite would be unflipping real.

I heard Nystrom was really good too. Any thoughts on him?
Kane would be un flipping real. 'Kane lite' means we finish 8th for the next 6 years too. I know what you mean and I appreciate your positivity, but Kane lite? Are we then happy with Habs = 'Hawks lite'? I just can't get that excited by 'Kane lite'.

And yes Kane was drafted much higher, so fair enough. But still.

Gally on the other hand excited me this year, because he was Gally, not a pale comparison to a much better player.

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Old
07-23-2013, 11:26 AM
  #46
bsl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Beaulieu in two or three years. So you think he is going to be in NHL in 2015-16?
Collberg in 2015-16?
Bournival in 2015-16?

So basically, none of our prospects will be NHL ready in the next two or three years.

Should we fire TT?
Exactly. Someone gets it.

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Old
07-23-2013, 11:27 AM
  #47
bsl
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Originally Posted by Bourdon101 View Post
Oh yes, quality of scouting depends on the nhl-readiness of the players you draft... I hate to say this because it feels cliché but look at Detroit.
Uh. The days of developing a pick for 5-6 years are gone.

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Old
07-23-2013, 11:37 AM
  #48
bsl
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
The average age that a hockey player becomes an NHL regular is 23. It's even higher on good teams.

That said....the Habs had a couple of prospects become regulars last year...Tinordi and Dumont will likely be the young players who "graduate" this coming season...in 2014-15 it may well be Bournival, Thomas and NB, but who knows who will surprise or disappoint.
GM it is silly for me to disagree with you but I am convinced that the NHL is getting younger, and that this will continue. I was shocked at Hawks first cup. I simply assumed the core was too young. I was wrong. I was also shocked that Gallagher even made the NHL this year, let alone excelled, because of his age. But it is more evidence of the move toward youth. It might be something to discuss with your peers.

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Old
07-23-2013, 11:39 AM
  #49
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We have great prospect depth going into this season. We had a glaring hole in gritty physical forwards and we filled part of that with the McCarron and DLR selections. Putting them into a group that consists of Galchenyuk and Collberg and we have a pretty well rounded group.

We've already built through the draft. Our drafts have consisted of Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, Subban, Price, Eller (Halak), Tinordi, Galchenyuk, Emelin and White. That's 10 key pieces out of 20.

What we have:
Powerforwards - Pacioretty
Centermen - Plekanec, Eller, Galchenyuk
Puck-moving defensemen - Subban, Markov / Beaulieu
Tough stay-at-home defensemen - Tinordi, Emelin
Superstars - Subban, Galchenyuk (potential)
Young potential - Collberg, McCarron, Beaulieu, Lehkonen, Hudon, Gallagher

Let's fill them into the depth chart:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher
McCarron - Galchenyuk - Collberg
Hudon - Eller - Lehkonen
x - White - x

Tinordi - Subban
Beaulieu - Emelin
x - x

Price
Fucale

What we lack:
Powerforwards - will McCarron and DLR fill that void?
Tough stay-at-home defensemen - we need more.

Our pool is filled with skilled players. Since they've just been drafted, we done yet know the ceilings of McCarron and DLR.

To further build the pool, I'd like us to draft more players with the profile of
Morin
Hartman
McCarron

to really round out the group. Price needs help in front of him and we need to protect our franchise goaltender with playoff type defensemen. With our drafting record, we can risk taking a few home run swings to find elite players to compete in our new division.

*Note, I didn't include Markov on the depth chart because we've begun to see a decline in his play. Even though he did put up a lot of points this year, he struggled with the pace of the game at times. Plekanec hasn't yet shown that slow down.

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Old
07-23-2013, 11:41 AM
  #50
bsl
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
ottawa
zing!

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