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Habs draft Jacob De La Rose with the 34th overall pick (info in OP)

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Old
07-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #376
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Couldn't the Habs sign him to an elc and assign him yo Windsor?

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07-21-2013, 08:43 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Couldn't the Habs sign him to an elc and assign him yo Windsor?
I would assume he has a contract with Leksand and that it is their decision to release him or not, which they clearly don't want to do.

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07-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #378
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Couldn't the Habs sign him to an elc and assign him yo Windsor?
Only first rounders can come over and play in the CHL without consent from their Swedish team.

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07-21-2013, 10:36 AM
  #379
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Rychel being Rychel. When things dont go his way, Id be keeping him away from the media if I'm the Spits. Tough when he's got a stake in the club, but over the last few years he's hurt his org far more than helping it with his mouth. He's emotional and lets it out.

I was hoping they could get DLR over so I could see him play, but he can and hopefully does develop just fine in Sweden.

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07-21-2013, 11:08 AM
  #380
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Yeah, but since I'm assuming we all accept that (in terms of calibre of play/player) Swe. Junior < CHL < SHL < NHL, it would still represent a "step backwards" - enough so that the guy isn't exactly wrong about what he's implying. Doesn't mean the SHL is the best developmental step for everyone and any point along the curve, though.
And not disputing that either. If De La Rose ends up playing a regular role in the SHL, for sure it's great for his development. Was just responding to the statement of that guy about Swedish junior vs CHL.

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07-21-2013, 01:29 PM
  #381
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http://www.dt.se/sport/1.6093663--ja...if-punkt-****-

Tommy Salo on Jacob de la Rose: "I try to look at what is best for the player's development"



Google translation:

He has been heavily verbally attacked by including Windsor Spitfires general manager Warren Rychel.

The latter has accused Tommy Salo for lying in the saga of super talent Jacob de la Rose.

Self says Leksand's sporting director:

- I have at all, never spoken to the man in question, adding:

- I work exclusively with Leksand IF on the eyes but also takes into account the player's best.

Tommy Salo is currently in a warm and sunny Spain for a short vacation. However, he has received reports of the various moves that have been made concerning Jacob de la Rose.

- It is sad to be called a liar when you know you have done nothing wrong.

- I have heard of me with both the Swedish Ice Hockey Association and the International. Jacob is our players, and obviously it is more stimulating to play in SHL than in a junior league in North America, says Salo.

There is also no doubt that LIF's sports counted him in the squad for the comeback in the top flight.

- Jacob has been in the a-team contexts for two seasons. It's clear that we believe in a positive development for him.

- In addition, Johan Rosen will be responsible for the matching of forwards. John and Jacob have worked together before.

How do you see the role of the agent is this kind of time?

- Sometimes I think the guys are listening too much on agents. Advice is not always the best.

- But it is still the player himself to take the last decisive decision emphasizes Tommy Salo.

Your own role as sporting director when there is such a conflict, because you still have to call it?

- I work for LIF, period. Do not own ego to satisfy. Then I try to also look at what is best for the player's development, says Salo.

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07-21-2013, 09:22 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
I could see Bozon, maybeee Collberg. But its really tough for a kid like Hudon to bust, bc even if he never becomes an elite scorer his two way game will make him an NHL 3rd liner somewhere.
This. Big time. I don't think Hudon's size should be a problem. his hocke sense and two way play is just down right gaudy.

Bozon is probably the most likely to bust but I don't even think that will happen. He plays a spirited game. If he was a floater/perimeter play then I'd be worried. If he can make significant strides in skating and strength then he has real high end potential.

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Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
I'm starting to think he has a bigger potential than we think.
Very very excited. I was momentarily taken aback that we didn't take Zykov but I really really liked this pick. He's definitely the surest bet IMnotsohumbleO

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Before he was drafted Fosberg scored 17 points and 30 points this season.
Last season DLR had 12 points.
We need to see if he can improve significantly next season.
Yeah people were flashing his stats that they were better than Zibanedjad's too I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63TPMBrLIIg

DLR'S at 1:32 and I can definitely see some legit offensive potential.

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07-22-2013, 09:13 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Couldn't the Habs sign him to an elc and assign him yo Windsor?
It would depend if he has an out clause in his contract with Leksand. Sounds like he doesn't so they hold the cards.

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07-22-2013, 09:55 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
It would depend if he has an out clause in his contract with Leksand. Sounds like he doesn't so they hold the cards.
that is so ****ing greasy...those *******s....nothing is better for a junior players development than to play in the best junior league in the world....those effing

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07-23-2013, 08:43 AM
  #385
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Swede supporting Leksand here. From my perspective, some of the comments here (like "that is so ****ing greasy...those *******s" and "How about the Habs decide where he'll develop better? Both Windsor and Leksand will only have him in the short term and are biased...") are quite ignorant.

The fact that NHL-teams can snatch players who are under contract without buy-out clauses for a low standardised price is bad enough (like Michael Raffl's move from Leksand to Flyers earlier this summer). When we start to surrender players under contract to junior leagues without getting to name a price, well that would be the day we might as well stop using contracts altogether and just let players represent the team they feel like from day to day. The SHL is not a North American minor league.

In Sweden, teams are clubs, not franchises. There is no such lottery event like the NHL-draft that randomly decides what team a player ends up in. Instead, all clubs have their own junior teams all the way down to about age 6 and players are brought up in this system so we have a lot of local talent representing their respective team. Jacob de la Rose has been in Leksand since age 15 and Filip Forsberg for example has represented Leksand his whole life. Naturally, it is not in the interrest of the club to spend time and money on a player (including that spent on the majority that don't make it to a pro level), if when he finally reaches age and skill enough to contribute to the club we have to release him to CHL for an unsignificant sum of money just because "it's better for the Montreal Canadiens". We couldn't care less about the Montreal Canadiens (no offense).

To us, he's not here "in the short term". He is bred here and he is one of us. That said, staying in the SHL will probably be better than playing in OHL as it is a much better league. Even if he gets less ice time than expected it won't be THAT much worse that you need to worry. There are also the alternatives here to give him ice time with Leksand's U-20 team or let him play with a Hockeyallsvenskan team on a loan spell for a shorter or longer period. When people say things like "He's going to learn absolutely nothing about physical play by playing in Sweden" I wonder if they actually have seen any Swedish hockey or if they take any prejudice they stumble over for granted.

Montreal will get him for a handful of dollars in a year if they want to, but for now he is our player and we decide. If this upsets anyone, try to look at the situation from this side of the pond.

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07-23-2013, 08:47 AM
  #386
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Interview with de la Rose from http://www.hockeysverige.se/article/...om-turbulensen

Quote:
de la Rose on turbulence
"Salo has been clear"
In recent weeks there has been some bickering about Jacob de la Rose, where he mostly has been a passive observer when multiple parties clashed about his career. Now he tells hockeysverige.se about his own thoughts about everything.
- It was not that I wanted to leave Leksand because it would be bad there in any way, says Jacob de la Rose.
It has been speculated and discussed a lot around Leksand 18-year-old forward, Jacob de la Rose. Should he play next season SHL hockey with Leksand in Sweden or junior hockey in North America for the OHL team Windsor?

The answer was SHL and Leksand since he is under contract with the club. Many have painted a picture of a very disappointed de la Rose, but when hockeysverige.se got an interview with him after a round of golf at home in Arvika we instead met a Värmlander which is stoked for league games with Leksand.

Was it a big disappointment that you won't play for Windsor in the OHL?
- No, absolutely not. It was never that I wanted to leave Leksand because it would be bad there somehow. Montreal wanted me to go over there because it would be best for me. When they presented it, I thought that maybe it would be best for me to go over to try get a feel for the game (over there).
- It has, as I said, never been that I want to leave Leksand and now it'll be Leksand that I'll play for and I think it will be damn good there.

Does Montreal view it as more stimulating for your possible future games in the NHL to move over now and play the North American hockey instead of playing SHL?
- No, the quality is better here at home in the top division, but it is about getting the ice time also. Montreal was unsure how much I will get to play. They want me to play these so-called major minutes. In Windsor, I would probably play all powerplay, penalty kill and all other major minutes there.
- Now I'll do everything I can to fight for a place in Leksand, but it's not that I demand (a certain amount of) time or something like that. Ice time is deserved, but I obviously have to work as hard as I can to get to play as much as possible.


Last edited by Simonster: 07-23-2013 at 09:19 AM. Reason: please don't post full articles (piqued). Fixed the translation from google translate to be more comprehensible (Simonster)
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07-23-2013, 08:53 AM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonster View Post
Swede supporting Leksand here. From my perspective, some of the comments here (like "that is so ****ing greasy...those *******s" and "How about the Habs decide where he'll develop better? Both Windsor and Leksand will only have him in the short term and are biased...") are quite ignorant.

The fact that NHL-teams can snatch players who are under contract without buy-out clauses for a low standardised price is bad enough (like Michael Raffl's move from Leksand to Flyers earlier this summer). When we start to surrender players under contract to junior leagues without getting to name a price, well that would be the day we might as well stop using contracts altogether and just let players represent the team they feel like from day to day. The SHL is not a North American minor league.

In Sweden, teams are clubs, not franchises. There is no such lottery event like the NHL-draft that randomly decides what team a player ends up in. Instead, all clubs have their own junior teams all the way down to about age 6 and players are brought up in this system so we have a lot of local talent representing their respective team. Jacob de la Rose has been in Leksand since age 15 and Filip Forsberg for example has represented Leksand his whole life. Naturally, it is not in the interrest of the club to spend time and money on a player (including that spent on the majority that don't make it to a pro level), if when he finally reaches age and skill enough to contribute to the club we have to release him to CHL for an unsignificant sum of money just because "it's better for the Montreal Canadiens". We couldn't care less about the Montreal Canadiens (no offense).

To us, he's not here "in the short term". He is bred here and he is one of us. That said, staying in the SHL will probably be better than playing in OHL as it is a much better league. Even if he gets less ice time than expected it won't be THAT much worse that you need to worry. There are also the alternatives here to give him ice time with Leksand's U-20 team or let him play with a Hockeyallsvenskan team on a loan spell for a shorter or longer period. When people say things like "He's going to learn absolutely nothing about physical play by playing in Sweden" I wonder if they actually have seen any Swedish hockey or if they take any prejudice they stumble over for granted.

Montreal will get him for a handful of dollars in a year if they want to, but for now he is our player and we decide. If this upsets anyone, try to look at the situation from this side of the pond.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, many Habs fans are are generally cautious of the SHL, especially with how Collberg was managed last season.

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07-23-2013, 08:54 AM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonster View Post
Swede supporting Leksand here. From my perspective, some of the comments here (like "that is so ****ing greasy...those *******s" and "How about the Habs decide where he'll develop better? Both Windsor and Leksand will only have him in the short term and are biased...") are quite ignorant.

The fact that NHL-teams can snatch players who are under contract without buy-out clauses for a low standardised price is bad enough (like Michael Raffl's move from Leksand to Flyers earlier this summer). When we start to surrender players under contract to junior leagues without getting to name a price, well that would be the day we might as well stop using contracts altogether and just let players represent the team they feel like from day to day. The SHL is not a North American minor league.

In Sweden, teams are clubs, not franchises. There is no such lottery event like the NHL-draft that randomly decides what team a player ends up in. Instead, all clubs have their own junior teams all the way down to about age 6 and players are brought up in this system so we have a lot of local talent representing their respective team. Jacob de la Rose has been in Leksand since age 15 and Filip Forsberg for example has represented Leksand his whole life. Naturally, it is not in the interrest of the club to spend time and money on a player (including that spent on the majority that don't make it to a pro level), if when he finally reaches age and skill enough to contribute to the club we have to release him to CHL for an unsignificant sum of money just because "it's better for the Montreal Canadiens". We couldn't care less about the Montreal Canadiens (no offense).

To us, he's not here "in the short term". He is bred here and he is one of us. That said, staying in the SHL will probably be better than playing in OHL as it is a much better league. Even if he gets less ice time than expected it won't be THAT much worse that you need to worry. There are also the alternatives here to give him ice time with Leksand's U-20 team or let him play with a Hockeyallsvenskan team on a loan spell for a shorter or longer period. When people say things like "He's going to learn absolutely nothing about physical play by playing in Sweden" I wonder if they actually have seen any Swedish hockey or if they take any prejudice they stumble over for granted.

Montreal will get him for a handful of dollars in a year if they want to, but for now he is our player and we decide. If this upsets anyone, try to look at the situation from this side of the pond.
When the kid says himself that he wants to come play in the CHL, that's the problem when you retains his rights. The kid wants out.

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07-23-2013, 09:03 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
that is so ****ing greasy...those *******s....nothing is better for a junior players development than to play in the best junior league in the world....those effing
Not playing in the "best junior league in the world" didn't hurt Karlsson, Zibanejad, Backstrom, Eriksson, OEL, etc, etc, etc, not to mention any of the older players.

Hockey is a global sport, deal with the fact that European organizations don't want to be undermined by Canadian junior hockey. We aren't talking about the Czech league and their recent development issues. We are talking about a country that has outplayed Canada and the greatest junior league ever in the last two U-20's.

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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
When the kid says himself that he wants to come play in the CHL, that's the problem when you retains his rights. The kid wants out.
He's under contract. It would nice to see him take a first line role in the CHL, sure, but are you suddenly supporting the new KHL philosophy that it's okay to undermine contracts if another team wants you?

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07-23-2013, 09:14 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
When the kid says himself that he wants to come play in the CHL, that's the problem when you retains his rights. The kid wants out.
I posted an interview with him higher up but it popped up after your post due to it being moderated so maybe you missed it. Take a look.

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07-23-2013, 09:35 AM
  #391
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There was more to that interview that was relevant to this whole ordeal so I'm posting that too:

Quote:
Any promise of Tommy Salo or Leksand that Jacob de la Rose would be released to Windsor next season is he also unaware of, of natural causes.
- I have no idea about that because it's Windsor, Montreal, my agent and Tommy Salo who talked about it. I have no idea what has or has not been said.

How has the dialogue between you and Leksand's GM, Tommy Salo, been during this time?
- There is absolutely no ambiguity there. We have talked to each other for all this time and he has been clear that he wanted to keep me in Leksand. He also believes that I will have an important role on the team and that it's best for my development is to stay in Leksand. It's just to respect that for me because I have a contract with Leksand. It doesn't disappoint me, and I'll keep fighting for Leksand and I think that it will be a really great time.

What have the Montreal Canadians said about all this whole thing?
- I have spoken with Christer Rockström, Montreal's Swedish scout, and he too believes it will be very good to play in Leksand for me.

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07-23-2013, 09:39 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Simonster View Post
I posted an interview with him higher up but it popped up after your post due to it being moderated so maybe you missed it. Take a look.
Thanks. It's good to hear the things from the other side as well.

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07-23-2013, 09:52 AM
  #393
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He's under contract. It would nice to see him take a first line role in the CHL, sure, but are you suddenly supporting the new KHL philosophy that it's okay to undermine contracts if another team wants you?
But if he's a 15 year old brought into a club, and as that poster said there are a lot of players whose rights are owned long before that time, how is the contract fair? He wasn't able to make a sensible decision at that young age, so when he has an opportunity to leave after he's drafted, should he not have that right?

He's now an adult, he should be able to forego a commitment he made as a youth. Think about it as emancipation, he should have that right IMO.

Again, this is not a slight to the SHL. There are a lot of advantages for him in that league, like playing against men and playing for the international club. My issue is that at this point in his life he should be able to be his own man and not be stuck somewhere because he was pressured to as a youth.

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07-23-2013, 09:52 AM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonster View Post
Swede supporting Leksand here. From my perspective, some of the comments here (like "that is so ****ing greasy...those *******s" and "How about the Habs decide where he'll develop better? Both Windsor and Leksand will only have him in the short term and are biased...") are quite ignorant.

The fact that NHL-teams can snatch players who are under contract without buy-out clauses for a low standardised price is bad enough (like Michael Raffl's move from Leksand to Flyers earlier this summer). When we start to surrender players under contract to junior leagues without getting to name a price, well that would be the day we might as well stop using contracts altogether and just let players represent the team they feel like from day to day. The SHL is not a North American minor league.

In Sweden, teams are clubs, not franchises. There is no such lottery event like the NHL-draft that randomly decides what team a player ends up in. Instead, all clubs have their own junior teams all the way down to about age 6 and players are brought up in this system so we have a lot of local talent representing their respective team. Jacob de la Rose has been in Leksand since age 15 and Filip Forsberg for example has represented Leksand his whole life. Naturally, it is not in the interrest of the club to spend time and money on a player (including that spent on the majority that don't make it to a pro level), if when he finally reaches age and skill enough to contribute to the club we have to release him to CHL for an unsignificant sum of money just because "it's better for the Montreal Canadiens". We couldn't care less about the Montreal Canadiens (no offense).

To us, he's not here "in the short term". He is bred here and he is one of us. That said, staying in the SHL will probably be better than playing in OHL as it is a much better league. Even if he gets less ice time than expected it won't be THAT much worse that you need to worry. There are also the alternatives here to give him ice time with Leksand's U-20 team or let him play with a Hockeyallsvenskan team on a loan spell for a shorter or longer period. When people say things like "He's going to learn absolutely nothing about physical play by playing in Sweden" I wonder if they actually have seen any Swedish hockey or if they take any prejudice they stumble over for granted.

Montreal will get him for a handful of dollars in a year if they want to, but for now he is our player and we decide. If this upsets anyone, try to look at the situation from this side of the pond.
But of course. You look at your side, we look at ours. Not that it's that earth shattering. But the thing is, it's not like this kid will be in Sweden for the remainder of his career. We are talking about 1 year where I can't wait to see the icetime he'll get. But on our side, it's all about development of OUR player. The only concern is icetime. That's all. He gets it in Sweden, I prefer for him to stick over there. He doesn't, I would have wished he would have come over.

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07-23-2013, 09:54 AM
  #395
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Has Grant done any big pieces on JDLR ? If so, would appreciate being directed to where its at, too many posts to go through. Thanks.

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07-23-2013, 10:24 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
When the kid says himself that he wants to come play in the CHL, that's the problem when you retains his rights. The kid wants out.
Only because the Canadiens made the suggestion...he also stated he has no problem playing in Sweden.

The good news is everyone wants Jacob De La Rose
I am starting to think we have a steal of a 2nd round pick

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07-23-2013, 10:27 AM
  #397
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If DLR gets a big role on his team, chances are the team gets to keep him longer since the Habs don't have to worry about poor development. I doubt they would risk losing him after 1 year by under-utilizing him. Put him in the top 6 with a lot of icetime and Habs likely don't care whether he goes to the OHL or not.

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07-23-2013, 10:39 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Simonster View Post
There was more to that interview that was relevant to this whole ordeal so I'm posting that too:
thanks for the info...It's always good to get both sides of the story before making assumptions.

From the interview, he sounds pretty mature

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07-23-2013, 12:04 PM
  #399
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But if he's a 15 year old brought into a club, and as that poster said there are a lot of players whose rights are owned long before that time, how is the contract fair? He wasn't able to make a sensible decision at that young age, so when he has an opportunity to leave after he's drafted, should he not have that right?
I said he joined Leksand at 15 years old, but as I also described we do have youth teams all the way to ~age 6. JDLR started playing in our U-16 and U-18 teams at that point. His first senior contract was signed before last season and it is a 2-year deal.

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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
If DLR gets a big role on his team, chances are the team gets to keep him longer since the Habs don't have to worry about poor development. I doubt they would risk losing him after 1 year by under-utilizing him. Put him in the top 6 with a lot of icetime and Habs likely don't care whether he goes to the OHL or not.
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But of course. You look at your side, we look at ours. Not that it's that earth shattering. But the thing is, it's not like this kid will be in Sweden for the remainder of his career. We are talking about 1 year where I can't wait to see the icetime he'll get. But on our side, it's all about development of OUR player. The only concern is icetime. That's all. He gets it in Sweden, I prefer for him to stick over there. He doesn't, I would have wished he would have come over.
The point is he isn't your player yet. On some people here it sounds like you believe that Leksand is obligated to act as to make JDLR as good a player as possible for when the Habs decide to bring him over. He won't be put on a 1st or 2nd line to improve for you, he will be put there if he earns it and it is quite unlikely. I understand that you wish that things are maximised for his development, but you can't demand it and you do not have a case if it doesn't happen.

Leksand's business is winning hockey games in Sweden and using our players as we see fit to achieve this. That include JDLR being everywhere from 1st line to outside the team depending on how he performs. Leksand's business is not developing prospects for the NHL. A lot of Swedish hockey fans are not happy with the deal the Swedish Hockey Association has with the NHL where you pretty much can snatch whoever whenever for a relatively small sum as it is undermining the ambition for SHL and its teams to be internationally competitive and attractive.

I guess the economic side of things also do play a small role in this. The deal between Sweden and NHL is that the clubs a player has represented the last four years are getting payed a quarter of the total sum per season he represented them. If JDLR stays one more year with us we will get 4/4 if this money but if he left now we'd only get 3/4 as he has only been here for three seasons to this date. This is only a minor reason though I'd say and definitely not at the core of the issue.

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07-23-2013, 12:28 PM
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HiggsBozon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonster View Post
I said he joined Leksand at 15 years old, but as I also described we do have youth teams all the way to ~age 6. JDLR started playing in our U-16 and U-18 teams at that point. His first senior contract was signed before last season and it is a 2-year deal.




The point is he isn't your player yet. On some people here it sounds like you believe that Leksand is obligated to act as to make JDLR as good a player as possible for when the Habs decide to bring him over. He won't be put on a 1st or 2nd line to improve for you, he will be put there if he earns it and it is quite unlikely. I understand that you wish that things are maximised for his development, but you can't demand it and you do not have a case if it doesn't happen.

Leksand's business is winning hockey games in Sweden and using our players as we see fit to achieve this. That include JDLR being everywhere from 1st line to outside the team depending on how he performs. Leksand's business is not developing prospects for the NHL. A lot of Swedish hockey fans are not happy with the deal the Swedish Hockey Association has with the NHL where you pretty much can snatch whoever whenever for a relatively small sum as it is undermining the ambition for SHL and its teams to be internationally competitive and attractive.

I guess the economic side of things also do play a small role in this. The deal between Sweden and NHL is that the clubs a player has represented the last four years are getting payed a quarter of the total sum per season he represented them. If JDLR stays one more year with us we will get 4/4 if this money but if he left now we'd only get 3/4 as he has only been here for three seasons to this date. This is only a minor reason though I'd say and definitely not at the core of the issue.
You better kiss him goodbye, he ain't playing in sweden after this season.

It's just an ******* move on the part of Salo. The kid has the right to play wherever the hell he wants. If he's even willing to let money on the table to come to Canada, it means he probably has enough of the way he and the other young players are treated in Swedish leagues - like complete sacks of **** to be more explicit.

After following Collberg last season and the way he was treated, I wish all of your promising prospects realize they can't develop in this bs league and come to America to learn and play a North-American game on smaller rinks.

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