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Craig Rivet. Someone has to bring this up...

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Old
11-01-2006, 12:46 PM
  #76
Pascal
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I'm amazed people have only realised the fact Rivet is awful on defense just now..

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11-01-2006, 12:55 PM
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There are a few obvious problems with Souray but honestly, his inconsistency with scoring doesn't mean anything. What people have to realize is, he isn't a forward. If he scores 15 goals in the first 25 games of the season, then scores 5 for the rest of the season, that's still good. It's not consistent but I'm just saying, people are hard on him when he's ultimately a defensemen. He's no Paul Coffee.

Another thing, is that Souray frequently is the reason we get scored on. Not to put 100% of the blame on him (a couple times it is his fault purely, all though ultimately it's the goaltending) but last year we saw him so many times on the highlight reel.... Alfredson to Heatly.... Heatly to Alfredson..... SCORES cause Souray didn't take the man... or Souray didn't block off the pass, or Souray was just plain out of position. Oh Souray's pinching.... odd man rush.... goal....

I don't blame him as much last season. Last season it was Theo. One thing I think that made the habs better wasn't the physical effects of getting rid of Theo, but the mental.

When your on a team with a Goalie getting a fatcat salary who can't stop anything, it's probably very dissapointing to be winning a game by a stretch and lose it due to poor goaltending choices. i.e. going down too early, playing the puck to the other teams offense, leaving the net at an inopertune time, always getting beaten on the glove side etc.

So really, the entire teams morale was probably quite low due to the fact of "why even bother... theo is just going to lose us the game anyways".

Players get tired of giving 110% every game only to reap no benefits. I've seen games where Montreal literally had to fight to get a 1 goal win because Theo was letting in weak goals from every angle. Montreal would be fighting for their goals... giving even 150%, the other team would come into our zone, do a weak slap from the blue line... goal. It's hard when your goalies making what? 5 mil and isn't performing. You want to keep him cause you think it's just a slump... you want to give him all the opertunity he needs to get his game back because how are you going to trade off a bad goalie with a huge salary?

Either way. Last season I don't blame any of the habs for underachieving. It was a rough season. By far one of the worst I've seen in a while (excluding years they didn't make the playoffs) but honestly... you have to hand it to them... they still made the playoffs and beat Boston yet again. Once Theo got traded... once Gainey took control of coaching (be it him coaching or putting Carb/Muller there) the team has become 1000x better. 1000x more fun to watch. Everything.

Gainey = God.

He makes pimp trades and he knows what he's doing. He enlists good management for our team (even the rookie management he gets, is smart management. Who honestly though Carboneau would be a BAD coach????)

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11-01-2006, 12:57 PM
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I'm amazed people have only realised the fact Rivet is awful on defense just now..
What's funny is. I was the one who made the "Rivet should retire" thread. I don't think he should retire... but one thing is true, he's not fast enough for the new NHL. Doesn't mean he should retire as he's a veteran and has skill, just not a good skill set for our team. He needs to be on a slower team.

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11-01-2006, 01:03 PM
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Rivet terrifies me when he's on the PP, I can't for the life of me understand why he's there.

I could live with him being ineffective on the PP, but he's actually a liability.

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11-01-2006, 01:04 PM
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I'm amazed people have only realised the fact Rivet is awful on defense just now..
I thought he played a strong game last night, won the majority of hus battles and was rewarded by his coach by being used in key situations. That's how you can always tell what the coach thinks.

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11-01-2006, 01:07 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Rivet terrifies me when he's on the PP, I can't for the life of me understand why he's there.

I could live with him being ineffective on the PP, but he's actually a liability.
Thing is, they won't use a forward on the 2nd pairing, and all I can see is that JN scares the staff in terms of puck handling right now. I think if the entire D was available, Bouillon and Dandy would be used.

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11-01-2006, 01:20 PM
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Patrick Traverse scares me.

Rivet's game will get better, it's just a matter of time.

And McPhee touches on an important point - Rivet is not the first choice for 2nd PP. Dandenault or Bouillon would be there if available and they seem rightfully scared to use Niinimaa at this point. And I don't think Komisarek's passing skills and vision are good enough for this responsibility (but he's still developing, so who knows in the future). In other words, Rivet is not being used where he should be. Still, it's nice to have a player that's versatile enough to fill-in when need be.

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11-01-2006, 01:22 PM
  #83
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I thought he played a strong game last night, won the majority of hus battles and was rewarded by his coach by being used in key situations. That's how you can always tell what the coach thinks.
He can be OK on some nights, but I never understood how he could have a top 4 status, even on the habs. I've seen him do bonehead plays for years, and now he doesn't fight much anymore, and he never hits people hard either. So what does he do? for 2.5M a year he should be better.

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11-01-2006, 01:28 PM
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He's better then Patrice Brisebois. Last season we had Briseby, like 1000 players breezed by him and easily scored. How to deke Brisebois: Skate past him.

Seriously though, it's not really his speed, it's his boneheaded plays, puck giveaways etc. Brisebois accounted for most of the goals against us in his last season with us.

(When I say most, I don't mean 51%+ of the goals, I mean he has the highest percentage of errors leading to goals on our team. Not that the stat exists but if you watched the habs it was obvious)

Hated that guy. Patrice Brisebois... ugh. Rather Rivet over him any day. (Want Quintal back!!)

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11-01-2006, 01:31 PM
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He can be OK on some nights, but I never understood how he could have a top 4 status, even on the habs. I've seen him do bonehead plays for years, and now he doesn't fight much anymore, and he never hits people hard either. So what does he do? for 2.5M a year he should be better.
I think that's an issue with fans. If he was paid 4M, should he be even better ? He is what he always has been. A good supporting cast d man who is trusted with key minutes who plays his best with a mobile LD. When things are going well for him, he can play 30 seconds on the pp with success, he did last year and was productive. This year he's been awful at it and doesn't appear comfortable.

He never was a hitter, in the old league he'd punish with his stick, he'll battle, but he doesn't move into people like a hitter does. Komi and Bouillon are the only guys we have that really do that. Fighting ? I haven't seen occasions when he hasn't answered the bell, he's willing but is smart enough to stay oout of trouble, like Souray is.

When he plays well, he gets good body position, and eliminates his guy, a key when he's on the pk. Last night was the 1st game this year when he's been able to do that, like he did last year. I hope it's a matter of communication, or trusting his partner, but the team needs him to be solid in those situations. They obviously count on him in that role, they wouldn't open the gate and write cheques to aguy they don't trust.

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11-01-2006, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oop007 View Post
He's better then Patrice Brisebois. Last season we had Briseby, like 1000 players breezed by him and easily scored. How to deke Brisebois: Skate past him.

Seriously though, it's not really his speed, it's his boneheaded plays, puck giveaways etc. Brisebois accounted for most of the goals against us in his last season with us.

(When I say most, I don't mean 51%+ of the goals, I mean he has the highest percentage of errors leading to goals on our team. Not that the stat exists but if you watched the habs it was obvious)

Hated that guy. Patrice Brisebois... ugh. Rather Rivet over him any day. (Want Quintal back!!)
Ahhhh Yes... good ol' Quintal! He was solid defensively... a good charcter guy also when he wanted to be (We won;t talk about when he bounced from Montreal to NY).

I'd still rather get rid of Rivet all together though...

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11-01-2006, 01:33 PM
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Rivet terrifies me when he's on the PP, I can't for the life of me understand why he's there.

I could live with him being ineffective on the PP, but he's actually a liability.
Couldn't agree more... Remeber that feeling you would get when Roy would come out of hsi net back in the day when he was with Montreal... well i get that smae feeling everytime Rivet is near a puck...

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11-01-2006, 01:36 PM
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I got that feeling everytime theodore played the puck. I honestly haven't seen a goalie play the puck worse then Theo, in my entire hockey-watching "career". Seriously though, the guy is horrible at playing the puck. Always onto the stick of the other teams forwards in the defensive zone.

I swear to god, half the highlight reel saves Theo has, if you look carefully.. he caused them to get the opertunity. I think it's dumb to make it a highlight reel save when the goalie caused the play to occur. If anything that shud be considered "luck", not a good save. Infact, I consider those garbage saves cuz Theo did it so frequently.

Theo + Brisebois on 1 team = Can't possibly win the cup.

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11-01-2006, 01:45 PM
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Rivet terrifies me when he's on the PP, I can't for the life of me understand why he's there.

I could live with him being ineffective on the PP, but he's actually a liability.
You just have a feeling something bad will happen.

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11-01-2006, 01:49 PM
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The guy has dropped off in a big way since last year. Everytime he touches the puck, or is in the corners I get scared because I'm almost certain he'lll lose any type of one on one battle.

I'm not doubting his heart at all, or his leadership outisde of the rink, but the guy just can't cut it in this "new" NHL. I would love nothing more than to see him turn it around, but with Streit playing very well right now, I do believe that Rivet could be the odd man out when Dandenault and/or Bouillon come back.

I know that a lot of people would rather see Sourray traded, but I realy think that Sheldon brings a lot more to the team then we give him credit for. Rivet will be the first one gone in my opinion... probably for nothing more than a draft pick.
IT IS TOO BAD SOME FANS FAIL OR REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS. MORE LOYALTY TO RIVET THEN ANYTHING. STREIT IS IMPROVING EVERY HOCKEY GAME. RIVET DID PLAY WELL LAST NIGHT HOWEVER HIS PLAY THIS SEASON HAS BEEN ABISMAL. WHEN DANDENEAULT RETURNS YOU WILL PROBABLY SE NINIMAA IN THE PRESS BOX THE FIRST GAME BUT THEY WILL PROBABLY ROTATE A FEW GUYS IN AND OUT. BUT WHEN BOULLION RETURNS I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HIM WITH SOURAY. GREAT COMBO AND WOULD VRING OUT THE BEST IN BOTH OF THEM. RIVET WILL SIT, NOT EVERY GAME BUT ALOT OF THE TIME. IT WILL BE THE BEST MOVE FOR THE TEAM AND THATS WHAT WE ALL WANT. RIGHT???

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11-01-2006, 01:51 PM
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IT IS TOO BAD SOME FANS FAIL OR REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS. MORE LOYALTY TO RIVET THEN ANYTHING. STREIT IS IMPROVING EVERY HOCKEY GAME. RIVET DID PLAY WELL LAST NIGHT HOWEVER HIS PLAY THIS SEASON HAS BEEN ABISMAL. WHEN DANDENEAULT RETURNS YOU WILL PROBABLY SE NINIMAA IN THE PRESS BOX THE FIRST GAME BUT THEY WILL PROBABLY ROTATE A FEW GUYS IN AND OUT. BUT WHEN BOULLION RETURNS I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HIM WITH SOURAY. GREAT COMBO AND WOULD VRING OUT THE BEST IN BOTH OF THEM. RIVET WILL SIT, NOT EVERY GAME BUT ALOT OF THE TIME. IT WILL BE THE BEST MOVE FOR THE TEAM AND THATS WHAT WE ALL WANT. RIGHT???
And here I go Again on my own , going down the only road I've ever known.......For crying out loud do we have to put up with a rivet bashing thread after every bloody game???
Makes me wish Ribs was still in Montreal....almost

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11-01-2006, 01:53 PM
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out of he, Markov and Souray if we can only re-sign 2 I'm hoping it's Markov and Souray...but honestly I see Rivet as the most likely one to return....

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11-01-2006, 02:09 PM
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And here I go Again on my own , going down the only road I've ever known.......For crying out loud do we have to put up with a rivet bashing thread after every bloody game???
Makes me wish Ribs was still in Montreal....almost
Tritone, we're solid vets. We never post in capitals because our bad spelling would be more noticeable.

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11-01-2006, 02:11 PM
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It's not something about the so-called ''new NHL'' that's giving Rivet trouble as I think he played the best hockey of his career last season.

I had hated him for years but kinda reversed my opinion of him during the last season. He's back to playing like he did back when I hated him though... it's almost sad.

He's still better than Niinimaa though. I just wish he'd go back to his form from last year when he actually played intelligently.

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11-01-2006, 03:04 PM
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I'm amazed people have only realised the fact Rivet is awful on defense just now..


I know what you mean! Apparently to most people, our two best defensemen are Rivet and Souray! Absolute iron men defensively. Really, it's laughable.

I don't care what people say about the +/- stat, but look who always leads the team in the negatives. Like it or not, it still shows they are most often then not the two d-men on the ice when a goal is scored against.

The only thing that cracks me up more are the disillusioned people who think these two have these great leadership abilities. Excuse me people, but when Koivu went out in the playoffs last year - where were the great Souray and the mighty Rivet's leadership skills? Exactly.

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11-01-2006, 03:33 PM
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I know what you mean! Apparently to most people, our two best defensemen are Rivet and Souray! Absolute iron men defensively. Really, it's laughable.

I don't care what people say about the +/- stat, but look who always leads the team in the negatives. Like it or not, it still shows they are most often then not the two d-men on the ice when a goal is scored against.

The only thing that cracks me up more are the disillusioned people who think these two have these great leadership abilities. Excuse me people, but when Koivu went out in the playoffs last year - where were the great Souray and the mighty Rivet's leadership skills? Exactly.
I think Rivet is a solid NHL defenseman. I think Rivet has had a poor start to the season. I think he played a strong game last night.

No one calls him an iron man, no one rates him with the elite d men in the league. He's always been considered a character guy, and is one of the voices in the room, which really means that he doesn't hide out in th etrainer's romm in the bad times.

If we disagree,fine, doesn't mean anyone's right is it's very subjective, don't put words into anyone's mouth though. Great and mighty are your words to make yourself look witty, I'm not sure what poster used them. Again, I get back to why Rivet is asked to play the tough minutes, the 5 on 3's ? I think it's because he is trusted by the staff.

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11-01-2006, 03:44 PM
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I'm amazed people have only realised the fact Rivet is awful on defense just now..
I'm really not saying this to brag or anything, but before last year, personally I always had him pegged as what he's been for most of his career. A solid 3rd pairing guy who has his weaknesses, but brings leadership all the time and toughness when he wants to. He's not the best defensively and he won't bring much offensively, but as a 3rd pairing guy without too much pressure and limited icetime, he can be an asset.

He was excellent with Markov last year, but more and more I think people are realizing it was more Markov's play than anything Rivet was doing. If he was getting Dandenault's type money, he'd be good on the 3rd pairing imo.

As it stands though, with Streit emerging as a reliable 3rd pairing guy and Dandy and Bouillon signed through next year, I think Rivet's future with this club might be in jeopardy, unless he's willing to take a serious pay cut. It's a shame, but that's how it works in the cap world. I wouldn't mind keeping him as a 3rd pairing guy, but we've got Dany, Streit and Bouillon, all three of which are cheaper, so Rivet might be gone after this season. You can never underestimate leadership and what he brings to the dressing room though, so maybe he will be here next year. I just think he may be victim of the b*tch we call the cap. (Don't get me wrong, I think balance was needed in the league, but more and more I think we'll be seeing reliable/well liked veterans put aside simply for budgetary reasons, which is a shame.)

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11-01-2006, 03:50 PM
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I'm really not saying this to brag or anything, but before last year, personally I always had him pegged as what he's been for most of his career. A solid 3rd pairing guy who has his weaknesses, but brings leadership all the time and toughness when he wants to. He's not the best defensively and he won't bring much offensively, but as a 3rd pairing guy without too much pressure and limited icetime, he can be an asset.

He was excellent with Markov last year, but more and more I think people are realizing it was more Markov's play than anything Rivet was doing. If he was getting Dandenault's type money, he'd be good on the 3rd pairing imo.

As it stands though, with Streit emerging as a reliable 3rd pairing guy and Dandy and Bouillon signed through next year, I think Rivet's future with this club might be in jeopardy, unless he's willing to take a serious pay cut. It's a shame, but that's how it works in the cap world. I wouldn't mind keeping him as a 3rd pairing guy, but we've got Dany, Streit and Bouillon, all three of which are cheaper, so Rivet might be gone after this season. You can never underestimate leadership and what he brings to the dressing room though, so maybe he will be here next year. I just think he may be victim of the b*tch we call the cap. (Don't get me wrong, I think balance was needed in the league, but more and more I think we'll be seeing reliable/well liked veterans put aside simply for budgetary reasons, which is a shame.)
He very well could be the odd man out as he doesn't bring a 'highlight' asset. otoh, maybe he'll be the only one willing to sign.

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11-01-2006, 03:57 PM
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He very well could be the odd man out as he doesn't bring a 'highlight' asset. otoh, maybe he'll be the only one willing to sign.
That's a good point. I doubt Gainey will push hard to resign Niinimaa, but if talks break down with Souray, I'm sure Gainey would be willing to take Rivet back. Markov seems like he'll be the "must sign" guy. Unless he's really unhappy, or wants to test FA waters, it seems to me that Gainey will push very hard to get him back. Souray would be a priority, but if he wants to leave, I don't think Gainey will go after him as hard as he will to keep Markov. (All of this is 100% speculation on my part of course. )

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11-01-2006, 05:51 PM
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And here I go Again on my own , going down the only road I've ever known.......For crying out loud do we have to put up with a rivet bashing thread after every bloody game???
Makes me wish Ribs was still in Montreal....almost
I am not bashing, I am bringing up a reasonable concern. Fine, i will not mention it anymore I guess his play will speak for itself.

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