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The Flyers use a compliance buyout on Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (updates in post #1)

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07-23-2013, 02:19 PM
  #626
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It seems the people who harangue Homgren for not re-signing Carle only do so because they feel he was a need on last year's team. Well, it's not like Carle was going to sign a one year deal, so I don't see how you can pin that on Holmgren. I mean, does anyone want Carle on a long term contract?

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07-23-2013, 02:20 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Jeebus...the likelihood of Parise and Suter signing here was like negative percent...
So what? He obviously didn't want Carle at whatever price Carle wanted. And based on the last season, he seems correct.

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07-23-2013, 02:21 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
It seems the people who harangue Homgren for not re-signing Carle only do so because they feel he was a need on last year's team. Well, it's not like Carle was going to sign a one year deal, so I don't see how you can pin that on Holmgren. I mean, does anyone want Carle on a long term contract?
No..

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07-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #629
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So what? He obviously didn't want Carle at whatever price Carle wanted. And based on the last season, he seems correct.
Really? Not making the playoffs doesn't make you look very correct. Again ...there were multiple reasons but Holmgren's miscalcs in assembling the team didn't help.

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07-23-2013, 02:23 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Look what they signed an older Streit for.....it's debatable whether he's worth that money as well and how much better he'll be than Carle. This is my contention. Streit looks like a fix but may not be.
Streit provides more than Carle ever did. Carle was pretty much only effective as a transitional player.

Streit can play that role and he can log heavy PP minutes which will ease Timonen's load.

I agree that Streit's contract will be just as restrictive in the future as a Carle contract would have been, but it is also evident that Streit will be a much more useful tool than Carle was.

So you do have a legitimate point bringing Streit up relative to Carle, but it still doesn't work because Streit still brings more to the table.

Basically, I'd rather have Streit for the next four years than have Carle for a total of six. And that's really what it comes down to.

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07-23-2013, 02:24 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Really? Not making the playoffs doesn't make you look very correct. Again ...there were multiple reasons but Holmgren's miscalcs in assembling the team didn't help.
There were a other reason the Flyers didn't make the playoffs. Carle sitting on the blue line doesn't get them into the playoffs. Losing every single D-man not named Schenn made them miss the playoffs.

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07-23-2013, 02:26 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Really? Not making the playoffs doesn't make you look very correct. Again ...there were multiple reasons but Holmgren's miscalcs in assembling the team didn't help.
Yes, we missed the playoffs, but Carle was straight up terrible last season. Even if we assume that Carle would have propelled us to the playoffs last season (which is a wild assumption), we are still left with five more years of a bad contract for a player who provides relatively little to the team. Do you really throw the cuffs on that quickly for one year where we had very little chance of making noise in the playoffs?

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07-23-2013, 02:27 PM
  #633
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No..
Streit is obviously the "fix" for letting Carle walk for nothing. If he doesn't pan out then we'll see how much the fad hate for Carle is chortled on here. I wasn't a Carle fan necessarily but he did serve a need. He ate a lot of minutes and transition well in Lavi's system. Huskins, Gervais and Foster obviously didn't fill the void and the team lost playoff revenue because a subtraction wasn't made up with his crappy additions in any way. It was a miscalc period..and still might be if Streit isn't all that better than Carle who is younger and more durable.

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07-23-2013, 02:32 PM
  #634
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I don't' think it is. I think Streit is an addition to help bring offense to the D.

Carle's best year he had 42 pts

Streits worst year he had 36 pts.

Carles best year scoring goals was 6 goals (I'm ignoring the 11 he scored 8 years ago)

Streit's worst year scoring goals he scored 7 goals (6 this year in 47 games).

Streit is an overall more offensive Dman.

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07-23-2013, 02:33 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Yes, we missed the playoffs, but Carle was straight up terrible last season. Even if we assume that Carle would have propelled us to the playoffs last season (which is a wild assumption), we are still left with five more years of a bad contract for a player who provides relatively little to the team. Do you really throw the cuffs on that quickly for one year where we had very little chance of making noise in the playoffs?
Carle would have helped more than the three stooges we replaced him with that is for sure.

Also, Carle still was TB's minutes leader and yeah he wasn't great but wasn't terrible..that team had a lot of issues. Chalk it up to a transition year for Carle maybe. Hey we gave Bryz a mulligan and that dude proved nothing his first year other than that he was overpaid.

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07-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #636
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Problem #1, Carle should not be your minutes leader.

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07-23-2013, 02:36 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
I don't' think it is. I think Streit is an addition to help bring offense to the D.

Carle's best year he had 42 pts

Streits worst year he had 36 pts.

Carles best year scoring goals was 6 goals (I'm ignoring the 11 he scored 8 years ago)

Streit's worst year scoring goals he scored 7 goals (6 this year in 47 games).

Streit is an overall more offensive Dman.
Ok but don't we need some defensive help? I think Carle despite his brain farts was better with his D.

Anyway....I just think people are being too optimistic with respect to Streit. He's helps obviously but they still didn't address the need for a big minutes D man which is a tall order but Streit might actually wind up being a less per minute player than Carle...

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07-23-2013, 02:41 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Ok but don't we need some defensive help? I think Carle despite his brain farts was better with his D.

Anyway....I just think people are being too optimistic with respect to Streit. He's helps obviously but they still didn't address the need for a big minutes D man which is a tall order but Streit might actually wind up being a less per minute player than Carle...
The D looked bad because they couldn't figure out how to get the puck out of the zone. Streit fixes that problem from Day 1, plus he can score goals better than everybody on the D.

I get that Streit is probably like having Danny Briere play defense, but his offensive upside is probably one of the best since when Pronger arrived.

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07-23-2013, 02:41 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Carle would have helped more than the three stooges we replaced him with that is for sure.
Sure, and I admitted as much...but that doesn't change the fact that he would still be committed to our roster for 5 more years.

Maybe Carle squeaks us into the playoffs (again, that's a pretty big assumption), but it's not like we were going to make real noise. I'd rather invest in the next five years than blow some money on Carle and commit him long term because he makes our team better for just the one year.

Quote:
Also, Carle still was TB's minutes leader and yeah he wasn't great but wasn't terrible..that team had a lot of issues. Chalk it up to a transition year for Carle maybe. Hey we gave Bryz a mulligan and that dude proved nothing his first year other than that he was overpaid.
Fair enough. But the thing with Carle is that he's not an offensive defender, and he's not sound in his own zone. He is purely a transition guy. And he puts up some points because of that one skill, but he really doesn't bring anything else to the table.

So basically, his points get inflated because he can effectively move the puck up ice (not because he actually generates any offense), which means his salary gets inflated with it. This is precisely the difference between him and Streit. Streit can actually generate offense himself and move the puck up ice. That's much more worthy of a big contract than Carle's one tool game.

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07-23-2013, 02:41 PM
  #640
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Problem #1, Carle should not be your minutes leader.
Well maybe so but he's still pretty capable. Again better than tripling your chances at disaster with Huskins, Gervais and Foster. Also, from what I saw of the TB fans..they mostly complained about Carle b/c of how much he was paid which I'm not arguing that TB shot too much of a load on Carle. However, his mistakes were put under a miscrosope relative to his contract like Bryz was here but the Bryz scrutiny was far more legit. Trust me..Streit is going to be a whipping boy here just like Carle...

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07-23-2013, 02:43 PM
  #641
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Well maybe so but he's still pretty capable. Again better than tripling your chances at disaster with Huskins, Gervais and Foster. Also, from what I saw of the TB fans..they mostly complained about Carle b/c of how much he was paid which I'm not arguing that TB shot too much of a load on Carle. However, his mistakes were put under a miscrosope relative to his contract like Bryz was here but the Bryz scrutiny was far more legit. Trust me..Streit is going to be a whipping boy here just like Carle...
In defense of Holmgren 2 of those guys aren't playing if Coburn/Mesz/Gross/Timonen don't get hurt.

You can't predict injuries

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07-23-2013, 02:47 PM
  #642
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In defense of Holmgren 2 of those guys aren't playing if Coburn/Mesz/Gross/Timonen don't get hurt.

You can't predict injuries
No you can't but as Holmgren himself was quoted as saying all last season...Injuries are not an excuse! Ask Ottawa

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07-23-2013, 02:48 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
No you can't but as Holmgren himself was quoted as saying all last season...Injuries are not an excuse! Ask Ottawa
We make the playoffs despite injuries last season if Bryzgalov is even a competent NHL goaltender. He wasn't, and we missed the playoffs. That's why he's gone.

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07-23-2013, 02:51 PM
  #644
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No you can't but as Holmgren himself was quoted as saying all last season...Injuries are not an excuse! Ask Ottawa
That's politic talk, we all know that. Injuries can be an excuse, some teams over come them like Ottawa. But a lot don't.

What front office exec would blame his teams failures on injuries? None. They all put on the hard face and say that there is no excuse for failing...blah blah blah.

I mean, how many teams are 8-9 deep in Dmen? I get losing 1 or 2, but jesus, they lost 2/3rds of the defense.

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07-23-2013, 02:55 PM
  #645
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No you can't but as Holmgren himself was quoted as saying all last season...Injuries are not an excuse! Ask Ottawa
We should ask Ottawa for Craig Anderson.

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07-23-2013, 03:04 PM
  #646
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We make the playoffs despite injuries last season if Bryzgalov is even a competent NHL goaltender. He wasn't, and we missed the playoffs. That's why he's gone.
As I noted...there is enough blame to go around for missing the playoffs....this includes the coach as well who I still have my doubts about. But again Holmgren bears some big responsibility since he is the one that assembled that team. Obviously, his moves better pan out this year and they should be better but we still have some issues which includes trying to fill Pronger's spot and somebody winning the starting job in net legitimately...

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07-23-2013, 03:27 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
As I noted...there is enough blame to go around for missing the playoffs....this includes the coach as well who I still have my doubts about. But again Holmgren bears some big responsibility since he is the one that assembled that team. Obviously, his moves better pan out this year and they should be better but we still have some issues which includes trying to fill Pronger's spot and somebody winning the starting job in net legitimately...
Statistically speaking, someone already did the math, and if Bryzgalov plays even at a mid-range level instead of bottom of the barrel in terms of save percentage, we make the playoffs despite injuries.

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07-23-2013, 03:30 PM
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Statistically speaking, someone already did the math, and if Bryzgalov plays even at a mid-range level instead of bottom of the barrel in terms of save percentage, we make the playoffs despite injuries.
Round and round we go..and who signed Bryz? Gremlins?

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07-23-2013, 03:36 PM
  #649
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What an idiot, why would he possibly want a former Vezina finalist?

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07-23-2013, 04:45 PM
  #650
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What an idiot, why would he possibly want a former Vezina finalist?
If he did his homework he would have seen that Bryz was not a fit for this team and Lavi's system since he was a systems goalie. They didn't and hence why they had to admit to their rather obvious "mistake." They were highly reactionary (probably due to Snider more than anything). He needed to be more measured but asking Holmgren to be measured is like trying to sedate Mike Tyson in his prime...but again I still think Snider was the major driver although he tries to downplay it saying "I just happened to be at the meeting" discussing Bryz...and he just happened to send his private jet to cater to Bryz who had no other takers by Bryz's own admission! LOL!

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