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Blues acquire Magnus Pääjärvi & 2nd for David Perron

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Old
07-23-2013, 12:29 PM
  #376
Alklha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by your jaskin too much View Post
Even if Perron scores 30 as an oiler, which I think he can do, I think this trade is still a win for the blues. People need to realize that you make trades based on what they are currently doing not what they will do. If a team trades a player that scores 10 goals a season for the past 4 years and then breaks out and scores 40 for his new team, you cannot complain if your a fan of the first team.
To act like what a player will do doesn't come into it is just completely wrong. That is like saying prospects are worthless.

What is undeniable is that we didn't get good value on Perron. Pääjärvi has had pretty clear struggles and we got a second to compensate for the current difference. There were other circumstances that forced us to sell low, but ultimately we got poor value.

That doesn't mean I hate the trade, I like Pääjärvi in the long term and I think this makes us a better team going forward.

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07-23-2013, 01:03 PM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
To act like what a player will do doesn't come into it is just completely wrong. That is like saying prospects are worthless.

What is undeniable is that we didn't get good value on Perron. Pääjärvi has had pretty clear struggles and we got a second to compensate for the current difference. There were other circumstances that forced us to sell low, but ultimately we got poor value.

That doesn't mean I hate the trade, I like Pääjärvi in the long term and I think this makes us a better team going forward.
I think getting a reliable, 22 year old 3rd liner, plus a 2nd round pick, is more than fair compensation for Perron. Perron was an integral part of this team for the past 5 years, so I can see why many people don't think this was an even trade, but Paajarvi is a good fit for our team and that 2nd could easily turn into another Rattie, Jaskin, or Carrier.

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07-23-2013, 01:45 PM
  #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by your jaskin too much View Post
Even if Perron scores 30 as an oiler, which I think he can do, I think this trade is still a win for the blues. People need to realize that you make trades based on what they are currently doing not what they will do. If a team trades a player that scores 10 goals a season for the past 4 years and then breaks out and scores 40 for his new team, you cannot complain if your a fan of the first team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
To act like what a player will do doesn't come into it is just completely wrong. That is like saying prospects are worthless.

What is undeniable is that we didn't get good value on Perron. Pääjärvi has had pretty clear struggles and we got a second to compensate for the current difference. There were other circumstances that forced us to sell low, but ultimately we got poor value.

That doesn't mean I hate the trade, I like Pääjärvi in the long term and I think this makes us a better team going forward.
Yeah, that is a baffling post by jaskin. I suppose the Blues traded Shanahan for Pronger based on how Pronger was playing in Hartford, eh? Foresight and projection plays a HUGE part of trades. There is no way in hell the Blues make that trade if they didn't think Pronger would improve.

Alkha - I'm a bit perplexed by your post. You stated that the Blues got poor value for Perron, but then you assert that the trade makes us a better team going forward...is that because Paajarvi is a better fit? If so, I think you have to take that into account with "value". Value is relative and subjective. Edmonton got good value, but so did the Blues, because as you stated, the trade makes us a better team going forward (or in my opinion, "could" make us a better team going forward).


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 07-23-2013 at 02:24 PM. Reason: fixed formating for clarity
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07-23-2013, 02:23 PM
  #379
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Well, if the team didn't have cap concerns then this trade doesn't happen. Perron is clearly a better player than Pääjärvi at this point in time, and a better system or not, a contending team doesn't make that kind of downgrade for a second round pick.

We are a better team next season with Perron instead of Pääjärvi.

However, we are a better team next season with Roy and Pääjärvi than with Perron, which is what it came down to for us.

We got good value given the circumstances, but we sold low because the marketplace was so limited by teams that couldn't afford to take salary on.

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07-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  #380
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I think Perron is overrated. If Paajarvi can be a 35-point solid 3rd-liner for us that has speed and a good defensive game, plus the 2nd round pick, that's not bad in return for a 2nd-liner. Perron, as of this point in his career, is only averaging barely above 45 points per 82 games. He's not really the offensive player some think he is. He has potential to get there, but after watching him still constantly try to hang onto the puck for so long I really question if he'll ever learn how to produce more. He needs to start changing his game a bit if he wants to...Get a quicker release, pass the puck more, stop trying to stick handle so much, be more disciplined, etc.

Yeah Edmonton's system will probably help him but he still needs to distribute the puck.

I still am happy with this trade. We just need Paajarvi to be a solid 3rd-liner for us who contributes at both ends of the ice. If that allows other guys like Schwartz and Tarasenko to step up and contribute more offense, we could very well be a better team because of it.

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07-23-2013, 03:56 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
I think Perron is overrated. If Paajarvi can be a 35-point solid 3rd-liner for us that has speed and a good defensive game, plus the 2nd round pick, that's not bad in return for a 2nd-liner. Perron, as of this point in his career, is only averaging barely above 45 points per 82 games. He's not really the offensive player some think he is. He has potential to get there, but after watching him still constantly try to hang onto the puck for so long I really question if he'll ever learn how to produce more. He needs to start changing his game a bit if he wants to...Get a quicker release, pass the puck more, stop trying to stick handle so much, be more disciplined, etc.

Yeah Edmonton's system will probably help him but he still needs to distribute the puck.

I still am happy with this trade. We just need Paajarvi to be a solid 3rd-liner for us who contributes at both ends of the ice. If that allows other guys like Schwartz and Tarasenko to step up and contribute more offense, we could very well be a better team because of it.
You're underselling Perron he is a 50 point range guy with the potential to hit in the 30 goal 60 point range. He had a poor season last year and his rookie year that bring his point totals down. He's a good 2nd liner border line first liner on the right teams with the right center. He still hasn't hit his full potential.

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07-23-2013, 03:58 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
You're underselling Perron he is a 50 point range guy with the potential to hit in the 30 goal 60 point range. He had a poor season last year and his rookie year that bring his point totals down. He's a good 2nd liner border line first liner on the right teams with the right center. He still hasn't hit his full potential.
Well I believe he's averaging 47 points per 82 games so far in his career, so yeah he is basically a 50-point player, which is good, but not irreplaceable.

I know he has that potential but I just also don't know if he's consistent enough to hit 30 goals. His wrist shot is good but his release is so slow. I think he can definitely be a 25-goal guy but I don't know, it will be interesting to see how he clicks in Edmonton with guys like Gagner and Yakupov.

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07-23-2013, 06:15 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
To act like what a player will do doesn't come into it is just completely wrong. That is like saying prospects are worthless.

What is undeniable is that we didn't get good value on Perron. Pääjärvi has had pretty clear struggles and we got a second to compensate for the current difference. There were other circumstances that forced us to sell low, but ultimately we got poor value.

That doesn't mean I hate the trade, I like Pääjärvi in the long term and I think this makes us a better team going forward.
If the trade makes the Blues better, they got good value. It was widely known that the Blues were shopping Perron to all takers. Is it possible that another team made a better offer, but the Blues refused because it was a divisional rival or some other complication? Sure, but I think that's unlikely.

Maybe they sold low a bit, but there is no value in a vacuum. In a couple years, we might be talking more about Edmonton selling low on Paajarvi.

As for other people saying that the Blues should have built around Perron - has he seriously given you confidence that he's a player you build around? You don't build around a guy who can get 20-30-50 with good linemates, hoping he'll increase his totals. You build around guys who produce even if they're playing with crap linemates OR guys who produce a lot more than that.

Both teams took a risk. I think it pays off for both of them in the short-term, but long-term is the real question. Does Paajarvi continue to develop? What do the Blues do with that 2nd rounder? Even completely ignoring the cap space the Blues got themselves, I don't buy that anyone can easily chalk this one up as particularly good or bad value as of this moment.

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07-23-2013, 08:24 PM
  #384
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People don't seem to realize that Paajarvi was nearly on pace for scoring 20 goals last year. He know comes to a team with better talent around him and a coach that fits his style of play. And Paajarvi is still young and is still the former top 15 pick.

I have no doubt that Paajarvi can come over and be a 20-30 player for the blues, he has the skill set to succeed under hitchcocks system.

This was a trade that fits both ways. Now we have cap space to resign Stewart and Petro, plus we get a 2nd rounder, and potentially a player who will be as good as Perron, but probably a little worse.

Id take this trade anyday

Perron < Paajarvi, second, ease of resigning Stewart and Petro

But I would not count out paajarvi just yet.

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07-24-2013, 07:54 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Well, if the team didn't have cap concerns then this trade doesn't happen. Perron is clearly a better player than Pääjärvi at this point in time, and a better system or not, a contending team doesn't make that kind of downgrade for a second round pick.

We are a better team next season with Perron instead of Pääjärvi.

However, we are a better team next season with Roy and Pääjärvi than with Perron, which is what it came down to for us.

We got good value given the circumstances, but we sold low because the marketplace was so limited by teams that couldn't afford to take salary on.
The other thing to look at is the future, as well. We can't afford to re-sign all of our guys as they exit RFA and get into UFA territory so sacrifices have to be made somewhere... and when we can get a young guy in his early years of team control like Pääjärvi in return for a guy getting expensive that isn't so bad.

Maybe next season the Blues are a little worse off without Perron but the payroll flexibility isn't just for this season, its for future years, and Pääjärvi has more room for improvement than Perron does at this point in their careers, with Pääjärvi at 22 and Perron at 25.

Heck some people have labelled Pääjärvi a bust when many guys his age are barely making the NHL before they have an impact.

I think this was a very good trade by Armstrong for a couple of reasons.

1) He turned an asset with declining surplus value into one with lots of surplus value. Perron is going starting to get expensive relative to his production and the Blues can't have that in players who are not franchise caliber. Pääjärvi will be cheaper than what he provides on the ice for the next couple of seasons since he's just starting RFA.

2) The asset he acquired better fits our lineup and system, so the possibility that we're actually improving the team with the swap in the short term is there.

3) Payroll flexibility. We'll have more room to sign Bouwmeester/Steen etc. next season, not just Roy this year.

Getting a younger guy like Pääjärvi is a huge plus. I don't think this trade was much of an overpay at all really and it works very well for us with the roster we have constructed.

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07-24-2013, 02:23 PM
  #386
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Yeah you make a good point, we won't be able to keep everyone and you have to make sacrifices at some point. See: what happened to Chicago after both of their cup wins. Their depth players (Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Frolik, Bolland, etc) = gone.

Frankly, considering we knew a cap dump was coming, I am very pleased that we were able to acquire a 6'3'' 210 lb 22-year old former first round pick with a good two-way game and good speed in Paajarvi. That is good value to keep our lineup full.

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07-24-2013, 04:21 PM
  #387
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I think what should also help Maggie is that he no longer has the pressure to live up to his top 10 draft status anymore. He can come here and just be a contributor and not have to live in the shadows of Hall, RNH, Eberle and Yakupov. He will be put in a position to succeed, a 3rd line role asked to focus on his already developed defensive game and will be allowed to grow into his offensive game. If it takes him 2 years to develop into a top 6 forward, so what? He doesn't need to be forced into a top 6 role like he was in Edmonton, he can take his time and really focus on his weaknesses. Realistically all we need from a good 3rd line winger is 15G-20A, anything above that is really a bonus, which he is fully capable of right now and could very well turn into a Jakub Voracek type forward, which in the Hitchcock type system is a MUCH better fit than Perron was.

Plus we get a top 40 pick and cleared enough cap space to lock up Petro, which was the catalyst behind the move in the first place. That and Roy and MPS>>>>Perron

The 2nd round pick shouldn't be overlooked either. We can use it to acquire another piece at the deadline or restock the pipeline with some high end prospects, which is what I hope Army does. He could also move our 2nd and EDM 2nd and acquire another 1st round pick if the right player is available. Next years draft looks decent and we should hopefully be able to draft some high end centers which our pool DESPERATELY needs.

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07-31-2013, 08:59 PM
  #388
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I think this was a totally fair trade for both sides.
You guys got a defensively sound, super speedy winger with room to grow offensively and cap room for other players
We got a player that has offensive instinct and can replace a younger player on our team since we already have too many.

Due to a bet, I have to get my Paajarvi jersey restitched though and replaced by Perron and his 57 lol

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07-31-2013, 09:29 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Turrican View Post
I think this was a totally fair trade for both sides.
You guys got a defensively sound, super speedy winger with room to grow offensively and cap room for other players
We got a player that has offensive instinct and can replace a younger player on our team since we already have too many.

Due to a bet, I have to get my Paajarvi jersey restitched though and replaced by Perron and his 57 lol
haha! what was the bet?

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08-01-2013, 09:09 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Turrican View Post
Due to a bet, I have to get my Paajarvi jersey restitched though and replaced by Perron and his 57 lol
Might as well take mine in too...




What do you mean Perron isn't Swedish!?

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