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Old
07-23-2013, 07:41 PM
  #1
TeeeRuss
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Det - Buf


Vanek
Scott


Cory Emmerton
Adam Almqvist
Johan Franzen
Mikael Samuelsson
1st Rounder

Is this Red Wings fan dreaming or is this fair value? Wings get Vanek to add a much needed sniper to our top six, while the Sabres get a good prospects in Almqvist, Franzen capable of 20-25 goals, Samuelsson who has a hard shot for the PP but has battled injuries (still a good 3rd liner), Emmerton a solid 3-4th line centre who can kill penalties and a 1st Rounder most likely in the 20-24th selection range. I think its fair value, but what do you think?

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07-23-2013, 07:45 PM
  #2
ZeroPT
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I'd be okay with this. Let's ignore the cap dumps it's :
Almqvist+1st+Franzen+Emmerton
for
Vanek
That's quite a good deal, If there were another winger prospect we could iclude instead of almqvist? maybe tvordon?

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07-23-2013, 07:45 PM
  #3
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Too many moving pieces, imo, and Franzen doesn't really fit the rebuild in my mind.

We would be looking for young, preferably NHL-ready talent or picks.

Admittedly I don't know who Almqvist is; what does he project as at the NHL level?

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07-23-2013, 07:46 PM
  #4
HooliganX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeeRuss View Post

Vanek
Scott


Cory Emmerton
Adam Almqvist
Johan Franzen
Mikael Samuelsson
1st Rounder

Is this Red Wings fan dreaming or is this fair value? Wings get Vanek to add a much needed sniper to our top six, while the Sabres get a good prospects in Almqvist, Franzen capable of 20-25 goals, Samuelsson who has a hard shot for the PP but has battled injuries (still a good 3rd liner), Emmerton a solid 3-4th line centre who can kill penalties and a 1st Rounder most likely in the 20-24th selection range. I think its fair value, but what do you think?
Franzen is a player that really doesn't interest a rebuilding team and is pretty much a cap dump in the deal. I think Buffalo would want one of Detroit's higher end prospects in return.

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07-23-2013, 07:47 PM
  #5
shultzyfeelinirie20
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how about Vanek and Hodgson 2014/2nd for Franzen,Tatar,Smith,Nyquist??

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07-23-2013, 07:50 PM
  #6
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While the value might be there, I don't think the piece's are what Buffalo is looking for. Franzen doesn't match up with the age group of the Buffalo players, they have a ton of defensive prospects who are better than Almqvist. The first is a nice piece, but chances are it'll be a later first as well.

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07-23-2013, 07:51 PM
  #7
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by shultzyfeelinirie20 View Post
how about Vanek and Hodgson 2014/2nd for Franzen,Tatar,Smith,Nyquist??
I really don't see why Buffalo would have any interest in Franzon. Then it's basically Tatar,Smith and Nyquist for Vanek and Hodgson doesn't seem like enough to motivate Buffalo unless then value Smith and Tatar more then I do.

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07-23-2013, 07:54 PM
  #8
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Detroit needs to give up another 1st for Scott....

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07-23-2013, 07:54 PM
  #9
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Buffalo isn't doing that. Only high end player in the trade is 33.

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Old
07-23-2013, 08:30 PM
  #10
shultzyfeelinirie20
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alright then switch the 2nd from buff to det?? thats gotta be somewhat reasonable

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07-23-2013, 08:34 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shultzyfeelinirie20 View Post
alright then switch the 2nd from buff to det?? thats gotta be somewhat reasonable
No. We are not trading Hodgson unless a player of equal or better value while fitting the rebuilding plan is coming back. 3 good prospects won't cut it. There are very few players that fit our needs and that might realistically be traded for Hodgson. The dude was on pace for 60 points this past season. Not trading him whatsoever.

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07-23-2013, 08:35 PM
  #12
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how about mantha,outlett and franzen and either a 1st/tatar/nyquist for vanek and hodgson?? who else would you consider in our top 6?

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07-23-2013, 08:41 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by shultzyfeelinirie20 View Post
how about mantha,outlett and franzen and either a 1st/tatar/nyquist for vanek and hodgson?? who else would you consider in our top 6?
Detroit's future gets gutted.

Alright that's an exaggeration, but it takes a pretty hard hit.

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07-23-2013, 08:49 PM
  #14
shultzyfeelinirie20
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yeah but Vanek n Hodgson are still younger and can help out the top 6 not that we need it but i think it will help espically with helm out hodgson could take his spoit n have anderrson on the 4th line center

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07-23-2013, 09:00 PM
  #15
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Buffalo has no need to move Hodgson -- a young, established player -- for prospects.

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07-23-2013, 09:18 PM
  #16
ZeroPT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shultzyfeelinirie20 View Post
how about mantha,outlett and franzen and either a 1st/tatar/nyquist for vanek and hodgson?? who else would you consider in our top 6?
NO. If you didn't quite understand the description of player I provided I'll show you a couple examples:
Kadri
RNH
Seguin
Skinner
Duchene
Tavares
Stepan

These are the types of players that I would move Hodgson for (obviously Bufalo would have to add substantially to most of these players) Detroit doesn't have a player like that. We have no reason to move our best young NHLer for unproven prospects who could very easily bust. Now Vanek on the other hand...

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07-23-2013, 09:25 PM
  #17
tsujimoto74
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The only thing in that package Buffalo should care about is the 1st rounder. Interestingly enough, a rebuilding team doesn't have much use for cap dumps, spare part bottom 6ers, or players over 30+...especially not for their best trade chip.

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Old
07-23-2013, 09:30 PM
  #18
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Vanek only has one year on his deal, but this still isn't the package they are probably looking for.

They are going to want one of Nyquist, Tatar or Jurco. One of them has to be in the deal as does our first and then you start branching off.

Because of our situation there would need to be a cap dump or dumps if we did that today, which I don't think Buffalo would have a huge problem with if they got the right top end prospect that was NHL ready, the first and maybe a couple mid-tier guys.

I do expect the Wings to aggressively pursue Vanek should he become available, but it is far off to seeing what that package would be and I am sure Wings fans wouldn't be super happy but he is a guy I would pay a big exchange for if the extension can be hammered out.

Tatar (top 9, top 6 upside NHL ready guy), Pulkkinen, x prospect, cap dump, first. Assuming Vanek will talk extension than probably worth coughing up. Wings fans can scream about it, but that isn't far off what Hossa and Kovy returned, it is going to look something like that.

Not sure the Wings should deal Franzen. He is a compliance buyout or keep him kind of guy right now. Don't want his contract in somebody else's hands, especially in division where their cap-recapture is minimal and they can encourage retirement. He will need to pick his destination to put us at ease if he is dealt later on.

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07-23-2013, 09:32 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
NO. If you didn't quite understand the description of player I provided I'll show you a couple examples:
Kadri
RNH
Seguin
Skinner
Duchene
Tavares

Stepan

These are the types of players that I would move Hodgson for (obviously Bufalo would have to add substantially to most of these players) Detroit doesn't have a player like that. We have no reason to move our best young NHLer for unproven prospects who could very easily bust. Now Vanek on the other hand...
Lock this thread. Things getting cray cray up in here. Don't need a small center that puts up points against opposition's 3rd line.

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07-23-2013, 09:34 PM
  #20
ZeroPT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Vanek only has one year on his deal, but this still isn't the package they are probably looking for.

They are going to want one of Nyquist, Tatar or Jurco. One of them has to be in the deal as does our first and then you start branching off.

Because of our situation there would need to be a cap dump or dumps if we did that today, which I don't think Buffalo would have a huge problem with if they got the right top end prospect that was NHL ready, the first and maybe a couple mid-tier guys.

I do expect the Wings to aggressively pursue Vanek should he become available, but it is far off to seeing what that package would be and I am sure Wings fans wouldn't be super happy but he is a guy I would pay a big exchange for if the extension can be hammered out.

Tatar (top 9, top 6 upside NHL ready guy), Pulkkinen, x prospect, cap dump, first. Assuming Vanek will talk extension than probably worth coughing up. Wings fans can scream about it, but that isn't far off what Hossa and Kovy returned, it is going to look something like that.

Not sure the Wings should deal Franzen. He is a compliance buyout or keep him kind of guy right now. Don't want his contract in somebody else's hands, especially in division where their cap-recapture is minimal and they can encourage retirement. He will need to pick his destination to put us at ease if he is dealt later on.
Great post. Here's kindof a counter offer following your structure for the Vanek contract:

Vanek (possibly with salary retained)
for

Nyquist+Pulkinnen+Emmerton+Samuelsson+1st

Would you do that deal?

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07-23-2013, 09:38 PM
  #21
The Zetterberg Era
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
Great post. Here's kindof a counter offer following your structure for the Vanek contract:

Vanek (possibly with salary retained)
for

Nyquist+Pulkinnen+Emmerton+Samuelsson+1st

Would you do that deal?
I protect Nyquist before Tatar. Tatar is a very solid player, this would be an interesting deal. I'm forgainst it.

If they are willing to retain some salary we could do it right now, this particular deal if we can make it cap compliant accomplishes what we are trying to do in one swoop. Would still rather it be Tatar over Nyquist though with that said and when giving up 3 NHL players, I am sure the Wings would push that and keep the guy they value more between the two.

The Vanek deal is going to be a hard deal on any franchise, really the hard part here is the division aspect. I'm not for the chase if we cannot extend him, which means Buffalo is going to want certain things. The Wings system is crazy loaded in depth, so is Buffalo's system, so they are going to want certain guys. I am guessing Pulkkinen will be one of those mid-tier guys they like. One of the big three wing prospects is going to go in Nyquist, Tatar or Jurco. They make decent trade partners depending on Buffalo's opinion on some of our guys. We have a lot of depth on the wings and I am assuming that is the area they are looking heavily into acquiring. It also allows the Wings to protect Jarnkrok without spoiling talks which is what happens in the past in Wings deals. So they could be interesting swap partners if they get over the division element and Vanek isn't pining for Minnesota like we are about to read in this thread at some point.

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Old
07-23-2013, 09:39 PM
  #22
ZeroPT
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Lock this thread. Things getting cray cray up in here. Don't need a small center that puts up points against opposition's 3rd line.
Did you even read what I was posting or even continue to read what I posted? I never said anything about wanting to move Hodgson for any of those players, I just said that if I were to move CoHo, those players are the types of players I would be looking for. The hell is the problem with that?? Oh an for your uneducated comment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxmW7R3XtU
that clip is him stealing the puck off of Eric Staal, then dangling around Semin and one of the best young defenders in the game before finishing off the play nicely (goalie fail also helped)

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07-23-2013, 09:48 PM
  #23
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It's a shame Buffalo really loaded their D prospects, because we have some fabulous mid-tier guys there right now that would really help this deal along that we are going to have to move a couple of.

The reality is these guys aren't all going to play in Detroit, on top of that we might be looking at expansion where we lose them for nothing soon because we cannot protect them all. So moving several assets for a Vanek is something the Wings should look at, I just hope Holland picks the right ones to keep and the right ones to send like he has in the past.

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07-23-2013, 09:52 PM
  #24
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Taking Samuelsson as a cap dump I dont have a problem with

taking Frazen back--that is an albatross i wont no part of with a rebuilding deal.

the asking price for Vanek would be a 1st/Mantha+ Nyquist/Tatar

hodgson is going nowhere unless its part of a deal for a better, young center.

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07-23-2013, 10:03 PM
  #25
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Taking Samuelsson as a cap dump I dont have a problem with

taking Frazen back--that is an albatross i wont no part of with a rebuilding deal.

the asking price for Vanek would be a 1st/Mantha+ Nyquist/Tatar

hodgson is going nowhere unless its part of a deal for a better, young center.
Buffalo takes little risk adding Franzen...

Been hitting the 25-30 range for the last five years, which is great production for what his cap hit is. $4M will be peanuts by the time he's in the twilight of his career, and if he retires, it falls back on Detroit.

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