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2013 Penguins Summer Sign & Trade Emporium | Part XIII | No Buyouts for You!

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Old
07-24-2013, 11:57 AM
  #426
Chili Goal
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Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
The best thing to do with Orpik IMO is to let him eat some limited minutes for us this year, and begin to scale back those minutes as Depres and other young D gain experience, trade him as the deadline approaches to a contender out west for picks/prospects or whatever roster needs we have then.

Lots of teams will want him for the stretch run. The other option is to just ride him out through this year's playoffs, he'll be playing for a job next year, and you should get some decent use out of him.

Under no circumstances should we ever resign the guy though. That's the only real mistake we can make with him.
the bolded part is what I believe will happen. last playoffs' disappointment aside, we will again be in contention if reasonably healthy, and this year's "all in" decision will be keeping 44 as a lame duck. the justification will be that he's worth more to us during a cup run than any return he might fetch in trade.

MAYBE they trade his UFA rights after the season, but even that I doubt. it sort of sucks, because he likely would bring a nice young forward back, but it is what it is.

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07-24-2013, 01:08 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Probably. They are very weak on defense. Orpik and Niskanen would be a huge improvement for them. Plus the Lightning have great forward depth, some of which could be coming back to the Penguins in a deal.

The issue is that Orpik has a LMC, which means he can list up to 8 teams he'll refuse a trade to. Being that Tampa Bay was the 3rd worst team in the NHL last year, I have to wonder if that's one of the teams Orpik would say no to.
It all depends on his opinion. He may want to go somewhere that has better weather. It would work well for both teams though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
The best thing to do with Orpik IMO is to let him eat some limited minutes for us this year, and begin to scale back those minutes as Depres and other young D gain experience, trade him as the deadline approaches to a contender out west for picks/prospects or whatever roster needs we have then.

Lots of teams will want him for the stretch run. The other option is to just ride him out through this year's playoffs, he'll be playing for a job next year, and you should get some decent use out of him.

Under no circumstances should we ever resign the guy though. That's the only real mistake we can make with him.
I have a feeling they will ride him out too which is crap because he has value. The family mentality has to go if he is traded though which I don't see happening. We could use some good forward prospects.

Bottom line is I don't think Shero could resign him even if he wanted. The cap goes up great but you would eat that extra space right back up. So trade him while he has value; before he gets injured this season.

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:26 PM
  #428
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sometimes a player is more valuable in a playoff run than he is in a trade. Orpik could very well be one of them. You can't trade every player going into the last year of his contract un-signed.

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07-24-2013, 01:27 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
sometimes a player is more valuable in a playoff run than he is in a trade. Orpik could very well be one of them.
That's true. However a strong bottom six is also important in a playoff run - something the Penguins do not have right now.

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07-24-2013, 01:30 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
That's true. However a strong bottom six is also important in a playoff run - something the Penguins do not have right now.
I can understand both sides of this. But the idea that we have to trade him because we might lose him for nothing is wrong imo.

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07-24-2013, 01:34 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I can understand both sides of this. But the idea that we have to trade him because we might lose him for nothing is wrong imo.
Another reason to trade him is to free up more cap space in order to make that bottom six stronger.

Losing Orpik would be no small thing, but considering how weak the bottom six is and the fact that the Penguins have all this depth on defense, it would be the lesser of two evils IMO.

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:36 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
sometimes a player is more valuable in a playoff run than he is in a trade. Orpik could very well be one of them. You can't trade every player going into the last year of his contract un-signed.
What players do the Penguins trade in this scenario

That just seemed like an odd statement as if we always do it. That said, you either trade Orpik in the offseason or you keep him for the playoffs. Contending teams never subtract for a playoff run. My personal preference would be to trade him for organizational need now and let Despres grow into the top 4 position right off the bat.

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:39 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Another reason to trade him is to free up more cap space in order to make that bottom six stronger.

Losing Orpik would be no small thing, but considering how weak the bottom six is and the fact that the Penguins have all this depth on defense, it would be the lesser of two evils IMO.
I stand by what I've said all off-season. If you trade Orpik, its because we can get a good return for him that helps us right now. Its not to create cap space or because its the best asset management decision. Trading Orpik for a solid 3rd liner would be stupid. You don't move Orpik so we can fit in a Matt Cooke replacement. If you are trading Orpik it needs to be for someone that can at the very least push for a top 6 spot.

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07-24-2013, 01:39 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
What players do the Penguins trade in this scenario

That just seemed like an odd statement as if we always do it. That said, you either trade Orpik in the offseason or you keep him for the playoffs. Contending teams never subtract for a playoff run. My personal preference would be to trade him for organizational need now and let Despres grow into the top 4 position right off the bat.
Same here. Anybody who minimizes what Orpik has done for this team is a moron, but in the cap era you have to make hard choices. When you have the amount of depth on defense that the Penguins do, and the fact that Despres is on the cusp of top-4, that IMO makes Orpik expandable - especially if it can make forward depth and the bottom 6 better.

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07-24-2013, 01:40 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
We have absolutely no depth at top 4 D. There's Despres and then nothing.

I stand by what I've said all off-season. If you trade Orpik, its because we can get a good return for him that helps us right now. Its not to create cap space or because its the best asset management decision. Trading Orpik for a solid 3rd liner would be stupid. You don't move Orpik so we can fit in a Matt Cooke replacement. If you are trading Orpik it needs to be for someone that can at the very least push for a top 6 spot.
I stated that in a previous post. If Orpik goes, it should bring back a lot.

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:41 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
What players do the Penguins trade in this scenario

That just seemed like an odd statement as if we always do it. That said, you either trade Orpik in the offseason or you keep him for the playoffs. Contending teams never subtract for a playoff run. My personal preference would be to trade him for organizational need now and let Despres grow into the top 4 position right off the bat.
We've only done it with Staal. But since the Staal trade, it seems to be what people expect. We obviously did it with Staal and then the huge speculation around Letang and even Malkin.

As for trading Orpik now, see above. If the right deal is there, I say take it. But don't settle because you feel he needs to be traded.

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:42 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
I stated that in a previous post. If Orpik goes, it should bring back a lot.
and I'm fine with that. My response that you replied to was saying he needs traded because we can't let him leave for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovifan27 View Post
I have a feeling they will ride him out too which is crap because he has value. The family mentality has to go if he is traded though which I don't see happening. We could use some good forward prospects.
I completely disagree with this statement. Not with trading Orpik in general.

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07-24-2013, 01:43 PM
  #438
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There's no chance Orpik will be moved. I'm not sure why that keeps coming up.

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07-24-2013, 01:45 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
We've only done it with Staal. But since the Staal trade, it seems to be what people expect. We obviously did it with Staal and then the huge speculation around Letang and even Malkin.

As for trading Orpik now, see above. If the right deal is there, I say take it. But don't settle because you feel he needs to be traded.
Gotcha. We are in agreement here. It's certainly more valuable to keep him for this season then to trade him for a crappy return because you're afraid of losing him for nothing.

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:47 PM
  #440
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There's no chance Orpik will be moved. I'm not sure why that keeps coming up.
I think its very very unlikely he gets moved. I wouldn't quite say there's no chance, but its very low. We are all but set up to just move Niskanen and call it an off-season.

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07-24-2013, 02:28 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think its very very unlikely he gets moved. I wouldn't quite say there's no chance, but its very low. We are all but set up to just move Niskanen and call it an off-season.
The fun part is guessing what he will be traded for. I think many will be surprised by what Shero will be able to get for a 26 yr old puck-moving D who's on a very affordable contract. The fact that there's only 1 year left on his contract before UFA is not necessarily a bad thing. Some GMs actually like the flexibility of having a short commitment...

I predict a very good forward prospect who can get called up if needed.

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07-24-2013, 02:36 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
The fun part is guessing what he will be traded for. I think many will be surprised by what Shero will be able to get for a 26 yr old puck-moving D who's on a very affordable contract. The fact that there's only 1 year left on his contract before UFA is not necessarily a bad thing. Some GMs actually like the flexibility of having a short commitment...

I predict a very good forward prospect who can get called up if needed.
He needs to convince them that he's a 26 yr old puck-moving D who's on a very affordable contract when its easy to look at him and see a fairly expensive 3rd pairing d-man who consistently disappoints when forced into a larger role. After being given up on by two teams in 3 years I don't think that's going to be an easy sale.

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07-24-2013, 02:39 PM
  #443
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m PITT avoids Salary Arbitration with Robert Bortuzzo and agrees on 2 year deal -- AAV $600,000

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Old
07-24-2013, 02:47 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m PITT avoids Salary Arbitration with Robert Bortuzzo and agrees on 2 year deal -- AAV $600,000
boosh

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Old
07-24-2013, 03:18 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m PITT avoids Salary Arbitration with Robert Bortuzzo and agrees on 2 year deal -- AAV $600,000
Excellent.

As to Orpik being traded, I do not expect it to happen. Shero likes to go into the playoffs with a lot of veteran defensive depth. Do you really see us going in like this:

Martin - Depres
Scuderi - Letang
Bortuzzo - Engelland
Dumoulin

Heck, I don't like that very much, you're one injury away from Bort/Eng in your top 4.

Next year those guys will have more experience, and that lineup will look better.

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Old
07-24-2013, 03:23 PM
  #446
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Well we are now almost Tanner Glass above the cap, so there's nothing left to do but wait for the Niskanen trade.

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Old
07-24-2013, 03:25 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
He needs to convince them that he's a 26 yr old puck-moving D who's on a very affordable contract when its easy to look at him and see a fairly expensive 3rd pairing d-man who consistently disappoints when forced into a larger role. After being given up on by two teams in 3 years I don't think that's going to be an easy sale.
In a world where Jordan Leopold gets 2.25 mil per for 2 years, that shouldn't be a hard sell.

As for when he was forced into a larger role, I thought he acquitted himself very well. He stunk last playoffs, but whenever injuries moved him up the depth chart in the regular season, he was good.

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Old
07-24-2013, 03:43 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
In a world where Jordan Leopold gets 2.25 mil per for 2 years, that shouldn't be a hard sell.

As for when he was forced into a larger role, I thought he acquitted himself very well. He stunk last playoffs, but whenever injuries moved him up the depth chart in the regular season, he was good.
that's where I disagree outside of a short stretch at the start of this season.

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Old
07-27-2013, 12:20 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Well we are now almost Tanner Glass above the cap, so there's nothing left to do but wait for the Niskanen trade.

I`d be quite happy for Glass (it costs us 175,000 in cap space) to be demoted and Nisky traded. That would give us just over 2 mil to keep open for something at the deadline or pick something up now.

Anyone know much about Vinny Prospal? His numbers look solid and could provide some flexibility for our lines. A third line of Jokinen-Sutter-Prospal would give us some secondary scoring which lacked this season.

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Old
07-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #450
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I`d be quite happy for Glass (it costs us 175,000 in cap space) to be demoted and Nisky traded. That would give us just over 2 mil to keep open for something at the deadline or pick something up now.

Anyone know much about Vinny Prospal? His numbers look solid and could provide some flexibility for our lines. A third line of Jokinen-Sutter-Prospal would give us some secondary scoring which lacked this season.
if we demote Glass we need to sign another forward, so it would have to be pick up something now.

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