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Sergey Tolchinsky NYR Bound? [Nope! Signs with Canes 8/22]

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Old
07-24-2013, 05:40 PM
  #26
JohnC
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5'8"? What is that? Like 5'4"?

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07-24-2013, 05:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Oh please, this guy brings skill, something our prospect pool is still bereft of. I don't care if he's Pee Wee Herman, if he keeps his head up and isn't a purely perimeter player, the guy has the skill to be a very good prospect for us

And yes, it would be a two way deal. He would go back to juniors for at least one more season.
Agreed. It seems like he'll be looked at real closely in Traverse tourney, but he should be signed and be held onto because the skill he has is just too good.

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07-24-2013, 05:50 PM
  #28
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Teams are trying to find that Martin St. Louis clone but it will probably never happen.

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07-24-2013, 05:50 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I've never heard about an undrafted free agent having a limited number of teams that he can sign with.

If the Rangers were to sign him (and I'm not sure why he wouldn't have to go back into the draft) he wouldn't count towards the 50 contract limit unless he played in 10 NHL games.
It's a new provision in the CBA. Us and Carolina get exclusive negotiating rights until September.

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07-24-2013, 05:53 PM
  #30
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So am I the only one saying, "Let's sign Sergey Tolchinsky"?

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07-24-2013, 06:06 PM
  #31
Joey Bones
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Originally Posted by Clowes Line View Post
So am I the only one saying, "Let's sign Sergey Tolchinsky"?
Crafty right?

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07-24-2013, 06:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I've never heard about an undrafted free agent having a limited number of teams that he can sign with.

If the Rangers were to sign him (and I'm not sure why he wouldn't have to go back into the draft) he wouldn't count towards the 50 contract limit unless he played in 10 NHL games.
He won't count against the 50 limit right now because the SPC won't start until next year. Next year he will be sent back to juniors and the contract won't count against the limit. He won't actually be getting paid other than signing bonus money.

18 and 19 year old players in the AHL will have their ELC slide, but they still count against the limit AFAIK.

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07-24-2013, 06:19 PM
  #33
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Sergey is interesting. Only slightly bigger than Zucc but far more agile and more of a goal scorer. Seems like a player that's hard to defend because he just slips past you. Can skate too. I'd def sign him.

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07-24-2013, 06:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
He won't count against the 50 limit right now because the SPC won't start until next year. Next year he will be sent back to juniors and the contract won't count against the limit. He won't actually be getting paid other than signing bonus money.

18 and 19 year old players in the AHL will have their ELC slide, but they still count against the limit AFAIK.
St. Croix didn't have his contract count towards the limit last season. Unless there's some provision where it counts for AHL players only (which I think is extremely unlikely). It's a moot point in this case, as Tolchinsky wouldn't be able to play in the AHL next season.

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07-24-2013, 06:30 PM
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I'd take a flier on him small but a lot of his goals have come from in front. Tells me he is fearless.

I like it.

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07-24-2013, 06:32 PM
  #36
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Offdacrossbar has talked about this player before. Probably jumping for joy

I would definitely take a flyer on this kid. What's there to lose? Though I wonder if he signs with the Hurricanes to get a better shot of getting a spot.

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07-24-2013, 06:35 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'd take a flier on him small but a lot of his goals have come from in front. Tells me he is fearless.

I like it.
I'd rather have a small perimeter player than a small grinder. Will just be that much harder for him to make a living that way in the NHL. Nigel Dawes comes to mind.

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07-24-2013, 06:39 PM
  #38
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For those talking about his size, if its not an issue for Zuccarello, why not for him? If its true about his speed and goal scoring abilities, I'd rather sign this kid and give him a shot?

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07-24-2013, 06:42 PM
  #39
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Size isn't an issue for Zuccarello?

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07-24-2013, 06:43 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Tolchinsky would be required to sign an ELC. He probably wouldn't be sniffing at an NHL roster spot for a couple seasons, so he'd be independent to anything involving Stepan/Zuccarello.
Exactly. I reread my post and it seems like I meant he doesn't deserve a one-way deal. I actually meant there's no way for him to get one.

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07-24-2013, 06:51 PM
  #41
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All it costs is money. Not a draft pick. Not a player or prospect. Almost zero downside to taking a shot unless you are worried about the amount of contracts the Rangers have. I think they have about 4 people signed for '14-'15.

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07-24-2013, 06:52 PM
  #42
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Got no problem with bringing him in. But people see prospects like this and go overboard thinking they've got Martin St. Louis.

What, 1% chance to be St. Louis? Maybe? Very very slim chance of being Briere? Normally slim chance of developing into MZA/JAM/Gerbe?

Nate Gerbe may be the most dynamic player to come out of the NCAA in the last 5-10 years. Tremendous skillset with the top end skating to boot. A lot of Hobey finalists peak in college because they don't have the skating, NCAA has a lot of tree trunks on D still. Gerbe was the total package (except size obviously). Now he can't get a UFA contract.

Again, for a song why not. But also how alluring is the KHL gonna be for a kid like this that will need to pay dues in a big way. Needs time to develop physically, develop his skills in close quarters and develop the ability to make decisions as he advances to pro hockey where there is less time. If he plays another year in the O, a year in the AHL, what's his mindset? Don't give me the "well he came over the Canada to develop!" argument, because so did Burmistrov.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I'd rather have a small perimeter player than a small grinder. Will just be that much harder for him to make a living that way in the NHL. Nigel Dawes comes to mind.
This is a really good point and something that doesn't get talked about a ton.

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07-24-2013, 07:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
All it costs is money. Not a draft pick. Not a player or prospect. Almost zero downside to taking a shot unless you are worried about the amount of contracts the Rangers have. I think they have about 4 people signed for '14-'15.
Agreed 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Got no problem with bringing him in. But people see prospects like this and go overboard thinking they've got Martin St. Louis.

What, 1% chance to be St. Louis? Maybe? Very very slim chance of being Briere? Normally slim chance of developing into MZA/JAM/Gerbe?

Nate Gerbe may be the most dynamic player to come out of the NCAA in the last 5-10 years. Tremendous skillset with the top end skating to boot. A lot of Hobey finalists peak in college because they don't have the skating, NCAA has a lot of tree trunks on D still. Gerbe was the total package (except size obviously). Now he can't get a UFA contract.

Again, for a song why not. But also how alluring is the KHL gonna be for a kid like this that will need to pay dues in a big way. Needs time to develop physically, develop his skills in close quarters and develop the ability to make decisions as he advances to pro hockey where there is less time. If he plays another year in the O, a year in the AHL, what's his mindset? Don't give me the "well he came over the Canada to develop!" argument, because so did Burmistrov.
Like Championship said, might as well try and go for the 50/50 high risk high reward player. BTW wasn't he ranked a 1st round talent this past year

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07-24-2013, 08:22 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
St. Croix didn't have his contract count towards the limit last season. Unless there's some provision where it counts for AHL players only (which I think is extremely unlikely). It's a moot point in this case, as Tolchinsky wouldn't be able to play in the AHL next season.
St. Croix was in juniors. That's why it didn't count. The difference between a player in juniors and in the AHL is the AHL player is getting paid under his ELC, even if it slides.

When Miller signed his ELC after being drafted, he got his signing bonus, but didn't get paid under his ELC while playing in juniors. Last year, his contract would have slid since he was 19 playing in the AHL, but he played too many games in the NHL (I think the cutoff was 6 last year, but might be wrong on that). Whether he was playing in the AHL or NHL, he was playing under his ELC. That's why it counts against the 50 limit. Again, I might be wrong about that, but I'm reasonably certain that's the case.

If you think about it, there's no way they can know for sure if the ELC will slide or not if the player is in the AHL, until the season is over. So it would have to count against the limit.

But as you said, he isn't eligible to play in the AHL next season and there's no way he'll be in the NHL, so it's a moot point. Just me being anal

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07-24-2013, 08:27 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Clowes Line View Post
Am I the only person saying, "Who the **** is Sergey Tolchinsky?"
I was so excited about this news until I stopped myself to ask, "Who the hell is Sergey Tolchinsky?"

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07-24-2013, 08:33 PM
  #46
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Sounds like Corey Millen redux. A shifty crafty waterbug. He is still young and he's got room to grow--I suppose.


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07-24-2013, 08:44 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
Like Championship said, might as well try and go for the 50/50 high risk high reward player.
See, this is what I'm kind of talking about. It isn't close to 50/50. There is maaaybe a 50% chance he becomes a replaceable, one-dimensional, 40 point part available in UFA every single summer.

Yes he could also be more. Yes he is just as worthy of a contract, likely more, than numerous past NYR undrafted UFA experiments. Not knocking the kid or saying he shouldn't be brought in...just offering some perspective before the runaway hype locomotive gets rolling down hill.

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07-24-2013, 09:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I'd rather have a small perimeter player than a small grinder. Will just be that much harder for him to make a living that way in the NHL. Nigel Dawes comes to mind.
Not sure I see the connection you are making.

Most of the "grinders" we have do their grinding along the wall and rarely in front of the net.

What I see is a solid little finesse player popping into holes in front and taking advantage of his movement.

Can that translate to the NHL? don't know, but I'm not sure I'd relate a small shifty net front presence type of player to grinder.

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07-24-2013, 09:12 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
See, this is what I'm kind of talking about. It isn't close to 50/50. There is maaaybe a 50% chance he becomes a replaceable, one-dimensional, 40 point part available in UFA every single summer.

Yes he could also be more. Yes he is just as worthy of a contract, likely more, than numerous past NYR undrafted UFA experiments. Not knocking the kid or saying he shouldn't be brought in...just offering some perspective before the runaway hype locomotive gets rolling down hill.
Statistically, there isn't a 50% chance that any player drafted outside of the top 5 becomes an NHLer.

That is to say, I agree with you. It's fun to bring in new prospects. But we gotta stay realistic about them.

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07-24-2013, 09:46 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Size isn't an issue for Zuccarello?
Well everyone has seemed to like him this time around for the most part and I'd say he's played pretty well.

All I'm saying is that he's obviously bigger than Zuccarello. Why not give him a shot? Some guys are late bloomers. Maybe he got the kick in the ass he needed and really figured things out when he went undrafted. Sometimes it's the chip on the shoulder that drives a player to be better.

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