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Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-24-2013, 05:40 PM
  #776
CrAzYNiNe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Your numbers are all wrong, buddy. You seriously expect the cap to remain the same in 5 years? You think Subban.would go for anything less than a 10 cap hit, even if the contracts ends at his 36?

Don't dream, buddy. Teams will be hungry for a veteran as skilled as Subban, and won't hesitate to shell out the cash. For god's sake, just look at this year's selection of UFA, and what they have been paid!!

AND THE CAP IS GOING DOWN
What about the cap?

Yes I expect Subban to sign before he gets to UFA, like most top end talents did this year. He wants to be a Hab, he is playing for the team he grew up watching.

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07-24-2013, 05:46 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
What about the cap?

Yes I expect Subban to sign before he gets to UFA, like most top end talents did this year. He wants to be a Hab, he is playing for the team he grew up watching.
And he would have done so at a cap hit of 10m average if he keep being the Subban we believe him to be. Minimum.

Because here's a fact: cap will go up. Inflation will hit the UFA market, and it will affect resignings as well. Claiming you could sign Subban at a 6M cap hit in 4 years.is just hallucinating, man. Come out of the Rabbit Hole.

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07-24-2013, 05:49 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
And he would have done so at a cap hit of 10m average if he keep being the Subban we believe him to be. Minimum.

Because here's a fact: cap will go up. Inflation will hit the UFA market, and it will affect resignings as well. Claiming you could sign Subban at a 6M cap hit in 4 years.is just hallucinating, man. Come out of the Rabbit Hole.
It's only an idea. I just looked at Perrys and Getzlafs contract and they are paid well into the 7+ million. I'm think that the discounts only come on contract going after 36 years old. Signing him long term next year, gives him 2 contracts that will break the bank, not just one.

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07-24-2013, 05:51 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
It's only an idea. I just looked at Perrys and Getzlafs contract and they are paid well into the 7+ million. I'm think that the discounts only come on contract going after 36 years old. Signing him long term next year, gives him 2 contracts that will break the bank, not just one.
And you can.be sure that if either of these players would sign the same contract this year, they would break the 8 million bar. That's how yhea biz works.

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07-24-2013, 06:09 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Yes you sign him in his prime, but 8 years after 28, he is 36. No longer his prime. Front load the contract, within the rules. What do you not understand?

2017-2018 ---> 9,000,000$ (end of the season he is 29)
2018-2019 ---> 9,000,000$ (end of the season he is 30)
2019-2020 ---> 9,000,000$ (end of the season he is 31)
2020-2021 ---> 5,850,000$ (end of the season he is 32)
2021-2022 ---> 5,850,000$ (end of the season he is 33)
2022-2023 ---> 5,850,000$ (end of the season he is 34)
2023-2024 ---> 4,500,000$ (end of the season he is 35)
2024-2025 ---> 4,500,000$ (end of the season he is 36)
Cap hit of 6.69 million cap hit.

Look at the cap hit, very reasonable.

Cap hit of 5 million from 2013 until that contract

2013 ---------> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 24)
2013-2014 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 25)
2014-2015 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 26)
2015-2016 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 27)
2016-2017 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 28)

If not for this bridge, Subban would never have a cap hit over 7 million. Now he will. GET IT?
I'll help you out on this, although I shouldnt since you get it right ?

on the example you gave (9 mil first three years), 5 of the 8 years he is paid below market value, 5 of 8, more than half his contract (get it?)... and you expect him to accept that ? while there's 29 other GMs competing to acquire his services ? and then you ask others if they GET IT ???



Do yourself a favor, when you make such posts, at least don't ask others if they get it, cause in a single post like this, you're showing you don't and it's obvious.

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07-24-2013, 06:11 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
we have him for less $ for three years, but have to pay him 9 mil + after... when he's a FA, when he's in his prime... and we have to compete with 29 other GMs to re-sign him.

good damn! that sounds like such a great idea! maybe we'll get lucky and see the cap raise enough to finally have our first player making 10 per! can't wait!
Well no, you don't have to compete with 29 other teams unless you opt to do so.
You're arguing under the assumption he would absolutely want to test free agency, and that either he would not want to re-sign or that we wouldn't want to extend him. I can tell you PK would accept an extension at a hometown discount and it holds as much water as what you're saying now. Really who cares, you're talking about 5 years from now, so many things can happen between now and then.

You're also assuming that he would cost 9-10+M in 5 years.

Lots of assumption going on here. You're pretty much looking at the absolute worst case scenario only.

And if PK's goal is to become an UFA then he's not going to sign an extension now that will lock him up for 8years.

Really, your argument here is really weak. The bridge deal had absolutely nothing to do with trying to buy UFA years off. That was not the objective.

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07-24-2013, 06:35 PM
  #782
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Well no, you don't have to compete with 29 other teams unless you opt to do so.
You're arguing under the assumption he would absolutely want to test free agency, and that either he would not want to re-sign or that we wouldn't want to extend him. I can tell you PK would accept an extension at a hometown discount and it holds as much water as what you're saying now. Really who cares, you're talking about 5 years from now, so many things can happen between now and then.

You're also assuming that he would cost 9-10+M in 5 years.

Lots of assumption going on here. You're pretty much looking at the absolute worst case scenario only.

And if PK's goal is to become an UFA then he's not going to sign an extension now that will lock him up for 8years.

Really, your argument here is really weak. The bridge deal had absolutely nothing to do with trying to buy UFA years off. That was not the objective.
well yes, there would be no reason for P.K. to rush to sign a new contract when he knows he'll have leverage within a few months...


Nope, not really, but that he'll use it as leverage definitely (remember who is agent is ?).


Wrong, we're talking about the great idea brought up by LG that we should have signed in 5 for 5 instead of the 2 years deal, so it's four years, when P.K. will be a 28 years old UFA. So the idea is, give him a little more for 5 years, up till he's a top end D, 28 years old, UFA... so you too are willing to take the risk to see PK gone just so Habs can save a few $ ? really ? and you're the one telling others their "point" are garbage ? seriously ?


that's kinda easy to figure what he may cost in four or five years -> this season, well next when salary cap will be at 64 Mil, a D like Letang will make 7+, there's also players who already signed 8MIl per extensions, again, knowing cap will be 64 next season... so you think top end players will not make 9 in a few years when the cap will be higher, really ? come on now...


so, you know MB objectives now, really ?

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07-24-2013, 07:09 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well no, you don't have to compete with 29 other teams unless you opt to do so.
You're arguing under the assumption he would absolutely want to test free agency, and that either he would not want to re-sign or that we wouldn't want to extend him. I can tell you PK would accept an extension at a hometown discount and it holds as much water as what you're saying now. Really who cares, you're talking about 5 years from now, so many things can happen between now and then.

You're also assuming that he would cost 9-10+M in 5 years.

Lots of assumption going on here. You're pretty much looking at the absolute worst case scenario only.

And if PK's goal is to become an UFA then he's not going to sign an extension now that will lock him up for 8years.

Really, your argument here is really weak. The bridge deal had absolutely nothing to do with trying to buy UFA years off. That was not the objective.
Of course it is partly about that. Do you think Bergevin is going to now sign him to a 3 year deal? Its also partly why Subbans worth goes up the further you go out in the contract timeline.

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07-24-2013, 07:15 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well yes, there would be no reason for P.K. to rush to sign a new contract when he knows he'll have leverage within a few months...

Nope, not really, but that he'll use it as leverage definitely (remember who is agent is ?).

Wrong, we're talking about the great idea brought up by LG that we should have signed in 5 for 5 instead of the 2 years deal, so it's four years, when P.K. will be a 28 years old UFA. So the idea is, give him a little more for 5 years, up till he's a top end D, 28 years old, UFA... so you too are willing to take the risk to see PK gone just so Habs can save a few $ ? really ? and you're the one telling others their "point" are garbage ? seriously ?

that's kinda easy to figure what he may cost in four or five years -> this season, well next when salary cap will be at 64 Mil, a D like Letang will make 7+, there's also players who already signed 8MIl per extensions, again, knowing cap will be 64 next season... so you think top end players will not make 9 in a few years when the cap will be higher, really ? come on now...

so, you know MB objectives now, really ?
Still doesn't mean he wouldn't sign an extension. It's not like players re-signing on their current teams, even at discount, when they're set to become UFAs is rare.

And again, the most important point that you obviously ignored, if PK's goal is to hit the open market, then he won't sign an extension past his UFA years, and now with arbitration+Norris in his corner, Bergevin won't be able to play hard ball.


Whitesnake made it very simple. Just look around the league, look at the players that signed 2 year bridge deals. You'll see one common ground, they still had quite a few question marks and/or were unproven. That's why he was signed to that deal. Nothing to do with grabbing UFA years. You don't need to know MB to figure this one out.

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07-24-2013, 07:19 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Of course it is partly about that. Do you think Bergevin is going to now sign him to a 3 year deal? Its also partly why Subbans worth goes up the further you go out in the contract timeline.
Well no, because PK won the Norris. But do you actually think Bergevin would sign PK to a bridge deal if he knew he would have won the Norris the same year??

Heck, Bergevin said so himself, he wanted to see more things from PK. Therrien continued in the same line by saying PK is good but he can be great.
That's proof enough management wasn't sold on him just yet. So no, I don't think this was a big calculated move about alienating him from his teammates and having a contractual dispute with him so that we can hopefully grab 3 UFA years off him in his next contract.

It's a huge reach. Bridge deals are given to unproven or questionable players. It doesn't have to do with UFA years.

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07-24-2013, 07:44 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well no, because PK won the Norris. But do you actually think Bergevin would sign PK to a bridge deal if he knew he would have won the Norris the same year??

Heck, Bergevin said so himself, he wanted to see more things from PK. Therrien continued in the same line by saying PK is good but he can be great.
That's proof enough management wasn't sold on him just yet. So no, I don't think this was a big calculated move about alienating him from his teammates and having a contractual dispute with him so that we can hopefully grab 3 UFA years off him in his next contract.

It's a huge reach. Bridge deals are given to unproven or questionable players. It doesn't have to do with UFA years.
You're barking up the wrong tree . It's all about controlling the player and balancing that against cost . These things are foremost on every GM 's mind not just Bergevin's .

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07-24-2013, 08:02 PM
  #787
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Still doesn't mean he wouldn't sign an extension. It's not like players re-signing on their current teams, even at discount, when they're set to become UFAs is rare.

And again, the most important point that you obviously ignored, if PK's goal is to hit the open market, then he won't sign an extension past his UFA years, and now with arbitration+Norris in his corner, Bergevin won't be able to play hard ball.


Whitesnake made it very simple. Just look around the league, look at the players that signed 2 year bridge deals. You'll see one common ground, they still had quite a few question marks and/or were unproven. That's why he was signed to that deal. Nothing to do with grabbing UFA years. You don't need to know MB to figure this one out.
Of course I ignore it, cause he doesnt make sense... at the end of his current contract he wont have much leverage so I don't see him refusing a 8 years contract at more or less 7 Mil per (you know, close to 60 freakin Million dollars)... two or three month before he's about to become UFA ( wit the 5 for 5 that's what would happen), THEN he has leverage, THEN he can ask for the moon cause he knows he'll get it (from more than one team), so yeah, MB would HAVE to match the best offers from the 29 other GMs (including GMs who's resume show they're willing to make crazy offers - see Philly and NYR among others)... and if you think these offers would be bellow 8 or 8.5, then you're just being naive.

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07-24-2013, 08:21 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Of course I ignore it, cause he doesnt make sense... at the end of his current contract he wont have much leverage so I don't see him refusing a 8 years contract at more or less 7 Mil per (you know, close to 60 freakin Million dollars)... two or three month before he's about to become UFA ( wit the 5 for 5 that's what would happen), THEN he has leverage, THEN he can ask for the moon cause he knows he'll get it (from more than one team), so yeah, MB would HAVE to match the best offers from the 29 other GMs (including GMs who's resume show they're willing to make crazy offers - see Philly and NYR among others)... and if you think these offers would be bellow 8 or 8.5, then you're just being naive.
Exactly.

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07-24-2013, 09:08 PM
  #789
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Not necessarily.

5 years from 2013 bring us to the 2016-2017 where Subban turns 28 in May. Before that time he could of signed an extension (He is a habs fan, and like you would you take more money to play else where? I wouldn't)for 8 years, taking him to 36 years old, where you can front load a contract following these simple rules: 35% year to year rule + the 50% of lowest to highest.

Still a better outcome than this stupid bridge contract shenanigans.
It doesn't matter... it's another false objection.

So he's 28 when we have to renew him, doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Sooner or later you have to renew the guy as a UFA. Whether he's 28 or 30 or whatever...

Bottom line is we're going to pay more over the long run than we otherwise would've. Folks can try to dress it up however they wish, it doesn't make any difference. All we can do now is hope that MB learns from this and doesn't try the same crap with Galchenyuk.

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07-24-2013, 09:10 PM
  #790
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It doesn't matter... it's another false objection.

So he's 28 when we have to renew him, doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Sooner or later you have to renew the guy as a UFA. Whether he's 28 or 30 or whatever...

Bottom line is we're going to pay more over the long run than we otherwise would've. Folks can try to dress it up however they wish, it doesn't make any difference. All we can do now is hope that MB learns from this and doesn't try the same crap with Galchenyuk.

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07-24-2013, 09:12 PM
  #791
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Yes you sign him in his prime, but 8 years after 28, he is 36. No longer his prime. Front load the contract, within the rules. What do you not understand?

2017-2018 ---> 9,000,000$ (end of the season he is 29)
2018-2019 ---> 9,000,000$ (end of the season he is 30)
2019-2020 ---> 9,000,000$ (end of the season he is 31)
2020-2021 ---> 5,850,000$ (end of the season he is 32)
2021-2022 ---> 5,850,000$ (end of the season he is 33)
2022-2023 ---> 5,850,000$ (end of the season he is 34)
2023-2024 ---> 4,500,000$ (end of the season he is 35)
2024-2025 ---> 4,500,000$ (end of the season he is 36)
Cap hit of 6.69 million cap hit.

Look at the cap hit, very reasonable.

Cap hit of 5 million from 2013 until that contract

2013 ---------> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 24)
2013-2014 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 25)
2014-2015 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 26)
2015-2016 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 27)
2016-2017 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 28)

If not for this bridge, Subban would never have a cap hit over 7 million. Now he will. GET IT?
You're wasting your time with that guy. Lots of emoticons, no substance.

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07-24-2013, 09:14 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Your numbers are all wrong, buddy. You seriously expect the cap to remain the same in 5 years? You think Subban.would go for anything less than a 10 cap hit, even if the contracts ends at his 36?

Don't dream, buddy. Teams will be hungry for a veteran as skilled as Subban, and won't hesitate to shell out the cash. For god's sake, just look at this year's selection of UFA, and what they have been paid!!

AND THE CAP IS GOING DOWN
Players sign for discounts with their own teams all the time. That's why it's a good idea not to piss them off and lowball them in their RFA years. Tons of guys sign for more reasonable amounts to stay with their teams.

PK is now far more likely to make us pay through the nose and I don't see how anyone can blame him.

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07-24-2013, 09:16 PM
  #793
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It doesn't matter... it's another false objection.

So he's 28 when we have to renew him, doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Sooner or later you have to renew the guy as a UFA. Whether he's 28 or 30 or whatever...

Bottom line is we're going to pay more over the long run than we otherwise would've. Folks can try to dress it up however they wish, it doesn't make any difference. All we can do now is hope that MB learns from this and doesn't try the same crap with Galchenyuk.
Until you hit the player like Tyler Myers who all of a sudden declines and us now making 2x what he is worth. PK didn't prove enough and our front office felt it was worth waiting. This was a pragmatic and intelligent decision that illustrates our current managements competence.

I knew PK would be an all star before he had his amazing playoff but that doesn't mean it's smart to sign him to a huge contract. None of our players are guaranteed to get better and we should have no problem being patient before paying them top dollar. If they want to stay they will take a Pacioretty type deal (not exact money but he definitely took a disocunt). Otherwise they will cash in.

PK deserves 7.5M AAV but I hope he signs for a discount and goes with 6.75. Although I will admit I kind of hope he gets 7.6. (Maybe Galchenyuk will take 2.7 )

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07-24-2013, 09:26 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Of course I ignore it, cause he doesnt make sense... at the end of his current contract he wont have much leverage so I don't see him refusing a 8 years contract at more or less 7 Mil per (you know, close to 60 freakin Million dollars)... two or three month before he's about to become UFA ( wit the 5 for 5 that's what would happen), THEN he has leverage, THEN he can ask for the moon cause he knows he'll get it (from more than one team), so yeah, MB would HAVE to match the best offers from the 29 other GMs (including GMs who's resume show they're willing to make crazy offers - see Philly and NYR among others)... and if you think these offers would be bellow 8 or 8.5, then you're just being naive.
I'm not saying he wouldn't have more leverage. I'm saying we are talking under the premise that PK 4 years from now will be worth the moon, that he will absolutely ask for it.
There's a lot of players that also agree to discounts, I don't see why it would be out of the question for Pk to go down that path if management had shown trust in him by giving him a 5y deal out of his ELC.
And at that point, I'd be more than happy to give him all he wants (assuming he continues his progression) considering we would have already had 5 years of him at below market value.

What we can probably agree on right now is that PK, we are going to pay a lot more. If Letang got in the 7M range, then a Norris trophy winner probably gets more. Are we going to buy UFA years? I would freaking hope so, but nothing guarantees it. I guess we'll see.

In any event, I still think having PK at a below value contract for the next 4 years would have been better as those are the years that will really define our team and decide if the Bergevin/Therrien was te right pick.
I would not be worried about PK hitting free agency 4 years from now because so many things can happen within that time, and I don't see a big deal with him asking for a million or so more than he will likely make. Every dollar counts but I put more importance on the 2.5-3M we would have saved over the next 4 years as those are the years where we will be building.

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07-24-2013, 09:27 PM
  #795
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Until you hit the player like Tyler Myers who all of a sudden declines and us now making 2x what he is worth. PK didn't prove enough and our front office felt it was worth waiting. This was a pragmatic and intelligent decision that illustrates our current managements competence.

I knew PK would be an all star before he had his amazing playoff but that doesn't mean it's smart to sign him to a huge contract. None of our players are guaranteed to get better and we should have no problem being patient before paying them top dollar. If they want to stay they will take a Pacioretty type deal (not exact money but he definitely took a disocunt). Otherwise they will cash in.

PK deserves 7.5M AAV but I hope he signs for a discount and goes with 6.75. Although I will admit I kind of hope he gets 7.6. (Maybe Galchenyuk will take 2.7 )
No player is without risk. There will always be players who don't live up to their contracts.

5 mil per year though isn't a bad risk to take. And if you really are going to force a bridge on PK (something that doesn't make a whole lot of sense) and want to pay him less over a couple of years, there's absolutely no way we should be shoving 2.8 million down his throat. There's just no way to justify that amount.

I don't see 5 for 25 as a huge contract. 8 for 56 is a huge contract. 5 for 5 for a guy who'd already shown himself to be a quality number one blueliner at the age of 22 is a smart risk to take. Even if he'd just played at the level he was already at 5 million was very good value. And like I said, lowballing him was an awful move.
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I'm not saying he wouldn't have more leverage. I'm saying we are talking under the premise that PK 4 years from now will be worth the moon, that he will absolutely ask for it..
We certainly did ourselves no favours in this area by screwing him over and forcing him into a deal for less than 3 million per. Don't blame him at all now if he does ask for the moon.


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07-24-2013, 09:31 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
You're barking up the wrong tree . It's all about controlling the player and balancing that against cost . These things are foremost on every GM 's mind not just Bergevin's .
I think you're giving too much credit to Bergevin, and if that's really the issue than the deal could have been one of a year short from UFA. If PK was too amped up on getting UFA years, then he will not re-sign an 8 year deal. If he refused to do so before, then I don't see how he would agree to one now with a Norris in hand. He is eligible for arbitration now, Bergevin won't be able to force anything on him anymore to the point of sitting out.

In any event we will pay him 7-8M now, unless MB pulls a bunny out of his hat. We won't be taking advantage of a Norris winner at a below value deal.

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07-24-2013, 09:38 PM
  #797
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

We certainly did ourselves no favours in this area by screwing him over and forcing him into a deal for less than 3 million per. Don't blame him at all now if he does ask for the moon.
Exactly. People are arguing that we would have had to pay through the nose for him had we signed him until UFA years, but that's a moot point considering we now are going to pay him 7-8M anyways.

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Old
07-24-2013, 10:02 PM
  #798
Habsterix*
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The bridge deal had absolutely nothing to do with trying to buy UFA years off. That was not the objective.
Yes it absolutely does! With your way (5 year deal), he's under contract for 5 years, then becomes a UFA. With the bridge deal, he signed for two years, is a RFA with limited rights, then signs the 8 year deal before becoming a UFA. So you're comparing overpaying for two years (the first two) and having him a total of 5 years until UFA, and underpaying for two years (the first two) and having him for 10 years before becoming a UFA. Immense difference but of course, to fully understand, one must also know the difference between UFA and RFA leverage when negotiating contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you're giving too much credit to Bergevin, and if that's really the issue than the deal could have been one of a year short from UFA.
Personally, I think that you're underestimating Bergevin. He seems like a very smart hockey man from what everyone around the NHL is saying.

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Old
07-24-2013, 10:09 PM
  #799
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Yes it absolutely does! With your way (5 year deal), he's under contract for 5 years, then becomes a UFA. With the bridge deal, he signed for two years, is a RFA with limited rights, then signs the 8 year deal before becoming a UFA. So you're comparing overpaying for two years (the first two) and having him a total of 5 years until UFA, and underpaying for two years (the first two) and having him for 10 years before becoming a UFA. Immense difference.


Personally, I think that you're underestimating Bergevin. He seems like a very smart hockey man from what everyone around the NHL is saying.
Yes, but assuming he does agree to an 8tear extension, we are not getting him at a cheap price. So the point is moot. Will it be a discount in 5 years? Time will tell, all we know now is that he will get a huge amount on his next deal. At least we would have had him for 5 years at below value.

As for Bergevin, I was all for him, I still believe in him, but he's made some head scratching moves. NHL is a club, unqualified people get jobs, some rather poor hokey minds still have jobs despite failing. So it really doesn't mean much what the rest of the league thinks. It certainly is better to have good things said about him, but he's a rookie GM, and he isn't/won't be mistake free.
He might have looked at the UFA status, but I don't think it had anything to do with it really.

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Old
07-24-2013, 10:18 PM
  #800
Habsterix*
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ECWHSWI and I don't always see eye to eye but I understand what he's trying to tell you guys and for those who, like me, are more the visual type, here's a way to better understand it.

2012-13: $2.875M...........$5M
2013-14: $2.875M (RFA)..$5M
2014-15: $8M (as RFA)....$5M
2015-16: $8M.................$5M
2016-17: $8M.................$5M
2017-18: $8M.................UFA
2018-19: $8M
2019-20: $8M
2020-21: $8M
2021-22: $8M
2022-23: UFA

I've used the same $8M figure I did from my previous argument, based on what Letang was given.

Now how much will it cost when he becomes a UFA in 2017-18? I bet that it'll be a lot more than $8M (or whatever figure he agrees to).

As you can see, with the bridging contract, the Habs can have Subban for 10 years while negotiating as a RFA with more limited rights. With the situation that has a few here with panties in a knot, he's only signed for 5 years, then can walk away if he's not happy.

Of course, nothing says that he wouldn't negotiate a shorter term as a RFA after, but money and job security talks as most players have shown since the new CBA was signed.

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