HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New Jersey Devils
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Team better off without Kovalchuk?

View Poll Results: Better without Kovalchuk?
Yes, better without Kovalchuk 86 52.44%
No, worse without Kovalchuk 78 47.56%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-24-2013, 11:26 PM
  #101
Aethon
12 Axes
 
Aethon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 35,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NjDevsRR View Post
2011-2012 Kovalchuk was awesome.
Yeah...the year Parise did all the heavy lifting digging pucks out of the corner and keeping the play alive.

No question the devils were a better team with both of them....but
We saw two instaces of only Kovalchuk and they both were horrific failures.

Aethon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 11:27 PM
  #102
Aethon
12 Axes
 
Aethon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 35,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefatsurfer View Post
To be fair, Kovalchuk was injured for a good chunk of the season. I agree though, he was unspectacular
You mean beyond the 10 games?

Aethon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 11:33 PM
  #103
Bleedred
Kalinin is JAG
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sign Tallinder!!!!!!
Country: United States
Posts: 60,342
vCash: 500
If he didn't come out and drop this bomb on us 2 weeks ago, then yeah I would have thought maybe he wasn't completely healthy. It's what I thought the whole time. I never thought Kovalchuk would walk out like this, I always thought a lot more of him as a person. I always had Zach pegged as a phoney.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 11:37 PM
  #104
onefatsurfer
I speak in code
 
onefatsurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jersey Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,211
vCash: 500
His mother's quote about him sacrificing his body or whatever... Yeah, I think he was playing hurt.

Man, I wish he wasn't hurt during our finals run.

onefatsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 11:58 PM
  #105
StvBroDan
vPLAY WITH HEARTv
 
StvBroDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Yeah...the year Parise did all the heavy lifting digging pucks out of the corner and keeping the play alive.

No question the devils were a better team with both of them....but
We saw two instaces of only Kovalchuk and they both were horrific failures.
Parise and heavy lifting does not belong together.

StvBroDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:00 AM
  #106
StvBroDan
vPLAY WITH HEARTv
 
StvBroDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
If he didn't come out and drop this bomb on us 2 weeks ago, then yeah I would have thought maybe he wasn't completely healthy. It's what I thought the whole time. I never thought Kovalchuk would walk out like this, I always thought a lot more of him as a person. I always had Zach pegged as a phoney.
Wasn't hurt he was pouting

StvBroDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:03 AM
  #107
NjDevsRR
Registered User
 
NjDevsRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ocean County, NJ
Posts: 4,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Yeah...the year Parise did all the heavy lifting digging pucks out of the corner and keeping the play alive.

No question the devils were a better team with both of them....but
We saw two instaces of only Kovalchuk and they both were horrific failures.
Gimme a break, his all around game was incredible that season, PP PK, all situations. He showed it in the playoffs without Zach as well.

NjDevsRR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:04 AM
  #108
Balance
Jesus loves you!
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,362
vCash: 500
The other great thing about Kovalchuk was that we never gave Parise one of the worst contracts in the league. Thank god.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:12 AM
  #109
NJD Kula
THE SPITFIRES LINE
 
NJD Kula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Пок
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefatsurfer View Post
His mother's quote about him sacrificing his body or whatever... Yeah, I think he was playing hurt.

Man, I wish he wasn't hurt during our finals run.
That and I wish Elias did more, was invisible in the finals. If he played half as well as he usually does in the playoffs the Cup was the Devils for sure. I can't remember though, was Patty also injured?

NJD Kula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:26 AM
  #110
tailfins
Registered User
 
tailfins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 982
vCash: 500
I was going to comment on the question, but then I thought about how Lou would answer the question. The reality is that the question is irrelevant. We don't have Kovy. The question is whether or not the team as constituted can contend / win a championship. Even if we win, there will always be a question of whether we could have won with Kovy. Who cares, though? He's not here, but the rest of the team is.

To be a contending team, I think Lou needs to pull another rabbit out of his hat and get a young scorer. Without that, we are not contenders. I think we're equal / worse than last year.

tailfins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:31 AM
  #111
devilsblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Can I ask you a serious question?

When in his 3&1/2 years here did we see the Kovy Dynamo?

Just curious for reference.
I thought late 10-11 and mid 11-12 were good examples of Kovy Dynamo. Just dangerous in all facets, had teams on their heals, even when we were on the PK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
He wasn't even that....people have been crapping on Henrique's season for months now....they both scored the same amount of goals...think about that for a second.
Sure the goals were the same, but in less games Kovalchuk had 4x the # of assists as Henrique. Twice as many points. If Henrique was on a 25ish goal pace and 65ish point pace dudes would be amped. But for Kovy? Meh. Which speaks to Kovy's ability and the expectations placed on him.

Weak point on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NjDevsRR View Post
Gimme a break, his all around game was incredible that season, PP PK, all situations. He showed it in the playoffs without Zach as well.
Agree. Now I don't think it was all season. And I agree with Jim in that I don't think we saw consistent effort throughout his tenure here in NJ(although late 11-12 did turn out to be injury). Some times it looked like he floated. But mid 2011-12, I did think Kovy was pretty incredible.

devilsblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:34 AM
  #112
devilsblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
I was going to comment on the question, but then I thought about how Lou would answer the question. The reality is that the question is irrelevant. We don't have Kovy. The question is whether or not the team as constituted can contend / win a championship. Even if we win, there will always be a question of whether we could have won with Kovy. Who cares, though? He's not here, but the rest of the team is.

To be a contending team, I think Lou needs to pull another rabbit out of his hat and get a young scorer. Without that, we are not contenders. I think we're equal / worse than last year.
But Lou is a GM not an internet forum poster. This is what forums like this are about, discussing hypotheticals and potentialities as well as realities.

devilsblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 12:43 AM
  #113
manilaNJ
Optimism: Unwavering
 
manilaNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 6,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kulador View Post
That and I wish Elias did more, was invisible in the finals. If he played half as well as he usually does in the playoffs the Cup was the Devils for sure. I can't remember though, was Patty also injured?
Yep. Groin injury that required surgery during the summer.

manilaNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 02:26 AM
  #114
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
 
Benedict Parisechuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 8,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
I was going to comment on the question, but then I thought about how Lou would answer the question. The reality is that the question is irrelevant. We don't have Kovy. The question is whether or not the team as constituted can contend / win a championship. Even if we win, there will always be a question of whether we could have won with Kovy. Who cares, though? He's not here, but the rest of the team is.

To be a contending team, I think Lou needs to pull another rabbit out of his hat and get a young scorer. Without that, we are not contenders. I think we're equal / worse than last year.
Were a significantly better hockey team than we were last season. It's not even close really. Last season was the worst Devils team in 20 years.

Benedict Parisechuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 02:36 AM
  #115
Bleedred
Kalinin is JAG
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sign Tallinder!!!!!!
Country: United States
Posts: 60,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoDevilsfan26 View Post
Were a significantly better hockey team than we were last season. It's not even close really. Last season was the worst Devils team in 20 years.
I kinda thought the same thing too. The 07-08 team was pretty bad and the 06-07 team was nothing special. I kinda thought last year was one of the worst though at times. I guess you could say we were unlucky a little bit. Team averaged about 1.5 posts per game when we were losing it seemed.

I wasn't really surprised at the failure of the team though. I think this team is much better constructed. Aside from Olesz, there are no bargain bin D'Agostini, Butler, or Poni, types. Olesz won't be expected to be a top 6 like those guys though.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 03:38 AM
  #116
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
 
Benedict Parisechuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 8,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I kinda thought the same thing too. The 07-08 team was pretty bad and the 06-07 team was nothing special. I kinda thought last year was one of the worst though at times. I guess you could say we were unlucky a little bit. Team averaged about 1.5 posts per game when we were losing it seemed.

I wasn't really surprised at the failure of the team though. I think this team is much better constructed. Aside from Olesz, there are no bargain bin D'Agostini, Butler, or Poni, types. Olesz won't be expected to be a top 6 like those guys though.
Those teams still ended up with over 100 points. Last year was a complete joke. The first month was most likely a mirage and the real team showed up over those last 3 months. Everything that could go wrong did. The group we have right now is miles ahead of the cornucopia of horse*** we had going in and out of the lineup last year.

Benedict Parisechuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 03:54 AM
  #117
TheUnseenHand
BringBackZharkov
 
TheUnseenHand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 23,276
vCash: 500
Zach and Kovy belong together. One is infinitely more effective when playing with the other. The difference is that Kovy was capable of taking over a game if he wanted and Zach wasn't. I completely understand both sides of the "who was more important" debate. Zach is a more complete player. Kovy is a more dominating player when he wants to be.

Now to answer the question, I do actually think they are better off going back to a team of no names that are constantly underestimated. It just seems more Devils like. In the short term, though, the team is not better without him.

TheUnseenHand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 04:18 AM
  #118
NC107*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryGigantic View Post
This is part that isn't discussed as much, but with the quirks of the new "cap recapture" rule in the CBA regarding players retiring ahead of their contracts, Holy Mother of God if Quitterchuk made this decision a year or two from now we'd be bent over for years with just as much nothing to show for it.

The absolute best time for the Russian Momma's boy to get all nostalgic (for money) was exactly as it played out.

So if this was in the cards since the recent lockout, I say this is for the best.

He worked the timing with Lou.

NC107* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 05:31 AM
  #119
GDDevils*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,044
vCash: 500
From day one Kovy never fit the mold of a Devil player. After the trade it was painful to watch the team try to adjust to his way of playing. While he may have been a fantastic player this team was not built to maximize his abilities. From systems that didn't mesh with his style to players that couldn't compliment it either. The Kovy experiment was a pretty big flop. I really liked him as a player but he never really lived up to his hype. I'm sad to see him go but excited that I might get to see good old TEAM hockey. The way we used to do it, everyone towing the line.

GDDevils* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 05:39 AM
  #120
britdevil
Tea with milk...
 
britdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Internets.
Posts: 20,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDDevils View Post
From day one Kovy never fit the mold of a Devil player. After the trade it was painful to watch the team try to adjust to his way of playing. While he may have been a fantastic player this team was not built to maximize his abilities. From systems that didn't mesh with his style to players that couldn't compliment it either. The Kovy experiment was a pretty big flop. I really liked him as a player but he never really lived up to his hype. I'm sad to see him go but excited that I might get to see good old TEAM hockey. The way we used to do it, everyone towing the line.
Couldn't agree more.

I think I was forcing myself to love Kovy, when in reality it was just never meant to be. Pumped for some old time Devils hockey. There's no Quit in Team.

britdevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 08:50 AM
  #121
Balance
Jesus loves you!
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnseenHand View Post
Zach and Kovy belong together. One is infinitely more effective when playing with the other. The difference is that Kovy was capable of taking over a game if he wanted and Zach wasn't. I completely understand both sides of the "who was more important" debate. Zach is a more complete player. Kovy is a more dominating player when he wants to be.

Now to answer the question, I do actually think they are better off going back to a team of no names that are constantly underestimated. It just seems more Devils like. In the short term, though, the team is not better without him.
I agree. The team was much better with Kovalchuk only then when Parise was only on the team.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 08:58 AM
  #122
NC107*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,877
vCash: 500
From: pucksandpitchforks.com

Comparing the forward losses to the three major forward additions, the Devils have made up for their losses and some.

Losses: Clarkson, D’Agostini, Kovalchuk, Ponikarovsky, and Sullivan combined for:
40 Goals, 47 Assists, 87 Points, 142 Penalty Minutes, and a -30 plus/minus.

Additions: Clowe, Jagr, and Ryder combined for:
35 Goals, 57 Assists, 92 Points, 123 Penalty Minutes, and a +1 plus/minus.


Now on to the power play. Like before, the stats of the power play have been compared, but only for the three major losses compared to the additions.

Losses: Clarkson, Kovalchuk, and Sullivan combined for:
12 Power Play Goals and 18 Power Play Assists for 30 Points

Additions: Clowe, Jagr, and Ryder combined for:
15 Power Play Goals and 17 Power Play Assists for 32 Points.

Clowe was a weak link on the man-advantage last season, only posting a goal and three assists, but with that the Devils still have gained more with their additions.

NC107* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 09:02 AM
  #123
Brooklyndevil
82nd Airborne
 
Brooklyndevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,873
vCash: 500
No doubt about it. His contract was a killer and he may have been are most dangerous player offensively, however he's no longer the 40 to 50 goal scorer. I believe one guy that's relieved is big Lou.

Brooklyndevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 09:05 AM
  #124
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Nova Nation
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PA/NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 47,314
vCash: 500
I still think he could've been the 40 goal scorer but they tried to turn him into a 2 way grinder while playing on his off wing

it was silly all around

Zajacs Bowl Cut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 09:11 AM
  #125
NHL Fanatik*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,072
vCash: 500
Poll is decently close, makes me excited for this upcoming season.

Or maybe interested is the better word.

NHL Fanatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.