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Team better off without Kovalchuk?

View Poll Results: Better without Kovalchuk?
Yes, better without Kovalchuk 86 52.44%
No, worse without Kovalchuk 78 47.56%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-25-2013, 08:16 AM
  #126
TheUnseenHand
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Originally Posted by NJDevilsFan44 View Post
Poll is decently close, makes me excited for this upcoming season.

Or maybe interested is the better word.
I'm both interested and excited. Mostly excited. My expectations are tempered, but Devils hockey always gets me excited. Can Not Wait for this season to start!

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07-25-2013, 02:25 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by GDDevils View Post
From day one Kovy never fit the mold of a Devil player. After the trade it was painful to watch the team try to adjust to his way of playing. While he may have been a fantastic player this team was not built to maximize his abilities. From systems that didn't mesh with his style to players that couldn't compliment it either. The Kovy experiment was a pretty big flop. I really liked him as a player but he never really lived up to his hype. I'm sad to see him go but excited that I might get to see good old TEAM hockey. The way we used to do it, everyone towing the line.
Very uneven, but there was a finals run during his tenure, so I wouldn't call it a complete flop.

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07-25-2013, 03:15 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
I still think he could've been the 40 goal scorer but they tried to turn him into a 2 way grinder while playing on his off wing

it was silly all around
Not really he almost hit 40 goals in the SCF year and might have got there if he played the whole season. And the first half of 10-11 was bad for everyone but he started scoring at a pretty rapid pace when Lemaire came in. I don't think they tried to turn him into a grinder--they just wanted him to get better defensively which he did.

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07-25-2013, 03:17 PM
  #129
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they turned him into a 2 way player. I think that is pretty evident. you dont try and change the way that type of player plays, they didnt sign him to be a 2 way player.

I doubt he would've ever scored 40 again in NJ.

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07-25-2013, 03:22 PM
  #130
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I didn't argue that they tried to make him a two way player but you said they tried to make him a grinder which I don't think they did. Who knows if he would have hit 40 as a Devil but I think it's a safe bet he would be near or above PPG and around 30+ goals in the system he was in with us which is pretty good.

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07-25-2013, 03:26 PM
  #131
Benedict Parisechuk
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His defense was nothing to really to brag about. He just backchecked more often. I mean, anything could have been better than the controller unplugged stuff he was doing in Atlanta but he was still floating a ton out there. Ill say this, I won't miss the assload of errant passes he loved to make that led to odd man rushes for the other team. That was easily the most frustrating thing about him.

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07-25-2013, 03:48 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by ChicagoDevilsfan26 View Post
His defense was nothing to really to brag about. He just backchecked more often. I mean, anything could have been better than the controller unplugged stuff he was doing in Atlanta but he was still floating a ton out there. Ill say this, I won't miss the assload of errant passes he loved to make that led to odd man rushes for the other team. That was easily the most frustrating thing about him.
For me the dumb passes were a close 2nd to his refusal to initiate any body contact or show any effort to contest a loose puck.

Every game it was the same...he would stick his stick in and do a skate by and the possession would end. It would also leave a defenseman flatfooted at the blue line unsure whether or not to provide puck support....for 26 minutes a game.


Say what you want but it wasn't easy to play with Kovalchuk. Reads were almost iimpossible, trying to figure out what he was doing or where he was going to be made life for his linemates a much bigger chore.

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07-25-2013, 03:53 PM
  #133
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Not a complete flop, we never paid him north of 6 million dollars. Thats pretty damn good for a sniper in his prime. We would have never had that cup run as well.

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07-25-2013, 04:04 PM
  #134
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Kovalchuk was the master of the low percentage play. On stages like the World Championships when the talent level drops 5 fold, those low percentage plays look like spectacular feats of superhuman skill...against NHL caliber players the puck usually gets transitioned quickly for an odd man rush.

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07-25-2013, 04:07 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
For me the dumb passes were a close 2nd to his refusal to initiate any body contact or show any effort to contest a loose puck.
This was by far his worst attribute. The man is monstrously large and strong, yet he battled less than Tedenby.

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07-25-2013, 07:12 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnseenHand View Post
I'm both interested and excited. Mostly excited. My expectations are tempered, but Devils hockey always gets me excited. Can Not Wait for this season to start!
enough with the offseason, time to bring it on. . I am excited but cautious about this next season. October cannot get here soon enough

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07-25-2013, 07:15 PM
  #137
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team will be better off in the long run.. as of now.. no. I was one of the few that was glad that kovy retired.

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07-25-2013, 08:32 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Devilswede View Post
Simply put: short team It's a big NO. The guy is a world class player and one of the best. Of course it hurts us.

Long run: yes. The team gains cap space and doesn't get burdened by a huge contract and more penalties. Because let's face it, he wasn't going to keep playing until he was 42.
Started reading this thread thinking the same thing. But you put it out first. Absolutely agree.

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07-25-2013, 08:42 PM
  #139
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Short term, long term both yes the Devils are better off...there is no denying the man's skill but it never fit into any teams structure. So they accommodated him and that in and of itself was the problem.

The devils made great strides trying to mold him into their philosophy, but in doing so took away from much of the uniqueness of that player....

So what to do? Let him freewheel and disrupt the entire philosophy or try and take a highly skilled player and force him into a mold that he obviously never fit?

Neither scenario is good for a team....hence him being gone is for the best.

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07-25-2013, 09:03 PM
  #140
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Now that players have been signed to bolster the offense, I believe we'll be better, absolutely. Short term and obviously long term.

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07-27-2013, 11:31 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
they turned him into a 2 way player. I think that is pretty evident. you dont try and change the way that type of player plays, they didnt sign him to be a 2 way player.

I doubt he would've ever scored 40 again in NJ.
I agree. I remember seeing Kovy when he was in town and I was like wtf who is this crazy Russian guy blasting rockets from the blue line. I saw him regularly score like 2 goals per game against NJ. When he was traded to us I was excited we got him, but we changed his game. Made him better both ways, but the Kovy that could score every time he touches the pick was kind of gone.

We got rid of him at the right time. This season through the next 2-3 years would be nice to have him but after that who knows what we would be stuck with.

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07-27-2013, 10:42 PM
  #142
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The problem with Kovalchuk was that we paid for the game-breaking guy that probably peaked between 25 and 27 years old. There is no doubt in my mind that Kovalchuk would have been a productive forward for a LONG time in the NHL, but he simply wasn't the singular guy you could rely on to carry a team with two bad goaltenders and a lackluster group of defensemen. Parise and Kovalchuk worked well together because finally neither one of them had to be THE guy.

No doubt in my mind that Parise was missing Kovalchuk more than Kovalchuk was missing Parise. Even with all of Kovalchuk's injuries and lackluster play this season, he still had more points per game than Parise. I'll apologize in advance for using a small sample to prove any point, but the 11-12 playoffs tell me everything I need to know. Kovalchuk and Parise were split up, Parise played with the most effective forward on the team (Elias), and couldn't outscore the slowest Kovalchuk we will ever see, while Kovalchuk drew the top defensive pairs and Parise got nearly a 60% o-zone start rate.

Kovalchuk rules, Parise drools. It just sucks we got Parise's prime years and Kovalchuk's decline, and not the other way around.

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07-27-2013, 10:50 PM
  #143
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I remember one game about 10 years ago, Kovalchuk broke Marty's shutout in a game with about 2 seconds left. It was definitely less than 5 seconds left. It was also a road game because I wasn't there. It was on the power play and on one of those one time blasts from the point (Or half boards maybe) that we rarely saw last year at all. It was one of my first memories of Kovalchuk and from then on, he was one of my favorite non Devils players in the league.

It's like a break up!

No it's not! **** it!

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07-27-2013, 11:03 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
No doubt in my mind that Parise was missing Kovalchuk more than Kovalchuk was missing Parise. Even with all of Kovalchuk's injuries and lackluster play this season, he still had more points per game than Parise. I'll apologize in advance for using a small sample to prove any point, but the 11-12 playoffs tell me everything I need to know. Kovalchuk and Parise were split up, Parise played with the most effective forward on the team (Elias), and couldn't outscore the slowest Kovalchuk we will ever see, while Kovalchuk drew the top defensive pairs and Parise got nearly a 60% o-zone start rate.

Kovalchuk rules, Parise drools. It just sucks we got Parise's prime years and Kovalchuk's decline, and not the other way around.
The difference in points was marginal at best.... .79 vs .83 and when you factor in the minutes played it becomes a joke....18 goals vs 11 is the way I see it and Parise brings so much more to the table on nightly basis that there is no conversation. Not that this thread is a Parise v. Kovalchuk... but Kovalchuk has been a difficult fit his whole career not just in New Jersey... you need to let him do his thing to be effective, but while letting him do his thing you destroy your club...sorry but Parise would slot in on any team in the NHL...Kovalchuk is a chore....that is the difference.

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07-27-2013, 11:03 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
Couldn't agree more.

I think I was forcing myself to love Kovy, when in reality it was just never meant to be. Pumped for some old time Devils hockey. There's no Quit in Team.
I have been a fan of K******** since he was a rookie. Was girlish about us somehow landing him. And saw flashes of the player I knew, enough to entertain me and give me hope in crunch time.

But it was square peg/round hole from day one. And Jim was more right than wrong about him.

However, had his back held up I think he carries us on that same back to the Cup.

He probably would have left anyway, but would have helped cement both his and the team legacies had we won. Even as it is, he took us further than any of the previous Parise teams.

So I feel in a sense it was a success, because of that magical run, and now we get to go back to reality and be the Devils again.

And I am good with that. More than good... I'm Psyched.

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07-27-2013, 11:10 PM
  #146
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IMO the minutes destroyed Kovalchuk. He often times look tired towards the end of games, looked disinterested sometimes. I still will take to my grave that he gave us a very average to below average effort in 2013 though.

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07-27-2013, 11:21 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
The difference in points was marginal at best.... .79 vs .83 and when you factor in the minutes played it becomes a joke....18 goals vs 11 is the way I see it and Parise brings so much more to the table on nightly basis that there is no conversation. Not that this thread is a Parise v. Kovalchuk... but Kovalchuk has been a difficult fit his whole career not just in New Jersey... you need to let him do his thing to be effective, but while letting him do his thing you destroy your club...sorry but Parise would slot in on any team in the NHL...Kovalchuk is a chore....that is the difference.
You don't NEED to do anything with Kovalchuk. Just because Deboer didn't know what to do with him doesn't mean that's what anyone HAS to do with him. He became a PK weapon and a solid backchecker in 11-12, and his numbers without Parise were better than Parise's without him that season.

Besides, once the team was deep in 11-12 he wasn't playing half the game, and he wouldn't have been playing the entire powerplay if there was more than four-fifths of a good offensive defenseman on the team in his two and two half-seasons here. Kovalchuk has always played best when he played the least. He averaged under 23 minutes per game in the 11-12 playoffs and basically put the team on his broken back. Parise got the easier minutes as a result and disappeared. Sure Parise could slot in to any team, but if that team's relying on him to be a top-line scorer, I bet they're not very good.

EDIT: Also, blaming the team's failures on ONLY Kovalchuk whenever he played without Parise is ridiculous. It's not Kovalchuk's fault that 11 other forwards can go completely cold (while carrying anchors like Palmieri and Ponikarovsky on his line) while he goes top-2 in team scoring or that Johan Hedberg can have the worst stretch of goaltending most Devils fans will ever see.

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07-27-2013, 11:30 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
You don't NEED to do anything with Kovalchuk. Just because Deboer didn't know what to do with him doesn't mean that's what anyone HAS to do with him. He became a PK weapon and a solid backchecker, and his numbers without Parise were better than Parise's without him.

Besides, once the team was deep in 11-12 he wasn't playing half the game, and he wouldn't have been playing the entire powerplay if there was more than four-fifths of a good offensive defenseman on the team in his two and two half-seasons here. Kovalchuk has always played best when he played the least. He averaged under 23 minutes per game in the 11-12 playoffs and basically put the team on his broken back. Parise got the easier minutes as a result and disappeared. Sure Parise could slot in to any team, but if that team's relying on him to be a top-line scorer, I bet they're not very good.
All I have to say is look no further than Atlanta/Winnipeg...

Atlanta was a better team after the trade and won at a better pace (that season) without him and Winnipeg was in far better shape last season than we were.

There is a reason for that.


Last edited by JimEIV: 07-27-2013 at 11:51 PM.
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07-27-2013, 11:44 PM
  #149
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And look at the the Thrashers wins from 2007 all the way to 2011...no difference.

From 2007-08 to their last year in Atlanta they won 34,35,35, and 34 games in their final season without him...no difference whatsoever.
So much for the "Game breaker" Atlanta player.

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07-27-2013, 11:52 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
All I have to say is look no further than Atlanta/Winnipeg...

Atlanta was a better team after the trade and won at a better pace without him and Winnipeg was in far better shape last season than we were.

There is a reason for that.
Of course there's a reason for that, and it's not Kovalchuk. Aren't you the one routinely chiding the "potential" of those bottom-feeding teams that always seem to make some late, futile push as soon as the games mean nothing?

Besides, Winnipeg finished only 3 points ahead of one of the worst shooting teams in the league, and gave up the fourth most goals in the process. If that's "far better shape" then I'm not sure why I care who or what you think is good or bad in the first place.

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