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Raphael Diaz Appreciation Thread

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Old
07-25-2013, 10:01 AM
  #151
Tyson
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We have enough offensive D. He is a good player no doubt but his style is redundant. Small, Soft D. Habs can do better.

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07-25-2013, 10:05 AM
  #152
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He reminds me a lot of Mark Streit.

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07-25-2013, 10:09 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
We have enough offensive D. He is a good player no doubt but his style is redundant. Small, Soft D. Habs can do better.
How is his style redundant? They have Subban who is an RFA next summer and Markov who is a UFA. Beaulieu has some upside but at this point he is a year from making any kind of full time NHL impact.

"small, Soft D" is a big part of Chicago and LA winning cups. They didn't just have a bunch of big grunts to hack people in front of the net, they each had 3-4 puck movers back there.

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07-25-2013, 10:22 AM
  #154
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Sadly, most posters on here only sees his size, they don't see a guy that can play effective defense, move the puck and collect a cool 35 points doing it.

He's a trading chip for sure, but I have a feeling he'll take a huge step forward this year

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07-25-2013, 10:46 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
On the contrary, you can't win a cup without first having the potential. That's like saying I'll win the lottery without a ticket.

Bergevin isn't PASSIVELY waiting, he's added people to help develop the young players and gave them opportunities last year to see where their development is at.

You seem to want a Gainey(2009 version) quick fix, and we saw how that blew up in his face.

As I said earlier, no needs exist that there are no internal solutions.

In nets, Price can be 200% better than he was down the stretch. On defense, a healthy Emelin and a developped Tinordi are the missing elements.
Gainey was not a good GM. Just because his trades were foolish should not automatically disqualify any other Habs GM from making trades to improve this team.

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07-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
How many Cups were won by a team that 3 years earlier had great potential?

This board has become so absurdly polarized that reasonable discussion and compromise is virtually impossible.

Too many here ( almost ) is some schmuck assuming his opinions are equal or better than the teams management. Many, in fact, presume to intuitively know just what the GM is planning!

So much hubris. So many egos. So little real intelligent discussion by so many.

Stop with the "I know all about high level NHL motivations and strategies. "

Our speculations are not facts, nor even generally plausible on a professional level. It's merely a bunch of opinonistas seemingly compensating for a lack of meaningful connection elsewhere.

I love this team and have for 45 years. But I do not feel a sense of entitlement. I feel pride having seen close to half of the 24.
Lighten up. I didn't bash anyone. I stated an opinion. It's a hockey message board. Since none of us (as far as I know) are not employed in upper management for the Habs, we are all stating opinions.

The real hubris and ego is a post like yours where you try to dismiss an opinion that differs from yours. We disagree. Big deal.

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07-25-2013, 11:32 AM
  #157
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Gainey was not a good GM. Just because his trades were foolish should not automatically disqualify any other Habs GM from making trades to improve this team.
I have no problem with any GM making moves to improve his team, but building a winner is by drafting well and developing your young players, not trading them for quick, short term solutions. The media and their whole "trade deadline" mentality where a "name" is added so they win the deal isn't how you build a winner. Usually deals are fine for "finishing" a team like Boston with Kelly/Peverly but not to build a core.

Again, unless Emelin won't be extended, I don't see the point of trading for a big name "stay at home d-man" when we have those players here(Emelin Gorges) and on the way(Tinordi Pateryn Ellis etc). If we can get a Murray Fistric or whoever cheap on a 1 year deal, I'm all for it, it doesn't hurt the future nor use ridiculous cap space.

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07-25-2013, 11:39 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
Sadly, most posters on here only sees his size, they don't see a guy that can play effective defense, move the puck and collect a cool 35 points doing it.

He's a trading chip for sure, but I have a feeling he'll take a huge step forward this year
Replacing Diaz with a 6'4" stiff that can't play is a step backward, not forward.

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07-25-2013, 12:45 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Lighten up. I didn't bash anyone. I stated an opinion. It's a hockey message board. Since none of us (as far as I know) are not employed in upper management for the Habs, we are all stating opinions.

The real hubris and ego is a post like yours where you try to dismiss an opinion that differs from yours. We disagree. Big deal.
I actually was not referring to you specifically, except in the opening paragraph.

The rest of my points stand as thread after thread become full of antagonistic, long-winded sermonizing by posters unwilling and unable to adapt or evolve a simplistic opinion.

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07-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I have no problem with any GM making moves to improve his team, but building a winner is by drafting well and developing your young players, not trading them for quick, short term solutions. The media and their whole "trade deadline" mentality where a "name" is added so they win the deal isn't how you build a winner. Usually deals are fine for "finishing" a team like Boston with Kelly/Peverly but not to build a core.

Again, unless Emelin won't be extended, I don't see the point of trading for a big name "stay at home d-man" when we have those players here(Emelin Gorges) and on the way(Tinordi Pateryn Ellis etc). If we can get a Murray Fistric or whoever cheap on a 1 year deal, I'm all for it, it doesn't hurt the future nor use ridiculous cap space.
We already have a D core. Subban, Markov, Emelin, Tinordi.

The problem is that two of our core have had serious knee injuries and Tinordi is not proven yet.

We have a talented PMD in Diaz who should be traded to address the lack of physicality from our D.

The Habs did not struggle when Diaz was injured. The Habs struggled mightily when Emelin was injured. That bit of reality should show what is needed on the Habs roster.

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07-25-2013, 02:25 PM
  #161
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Norris?

Norris.

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07-25-2013, 03:22 PM
  #162
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With Markov's knees being one uncomfortable plane ride away from fully dissolving, it's probably a good idea to hang on to Diaz who does well on the PP. Better to have a cheap in house safety net versus trading away picks/prospects for a stop gap if Markov or PK for that matter were to get injured mid-season.

They can move a forward for help on D... preferably someone who is redundant and one dimensional.

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07-25-2013, 10:05 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
With Markov's knees being one uncomfortable plane ride away from fully dissolving, it's probably a good idea to hang on to Diaz who does well on the PP. Better to have a cheap in house safety net versus trading away picks/prospects for a stop gap if Markov or PK for that matter were to get injured mid-season.

They can move a forward for help on D... preferably someone who is redundant and one dimensional.
i agree with your general sentiment, but this is just the kind of echo-chamber HF "truism" that gets repeated but has no ground in reality

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:19 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
We already have a D core. Subban, Markov, Emelin, Tinordi.

The problem is that two of our core have had serious knee injuries and Tinordi is not proven yet.

We have a talented PMD in Diaz who should be traded to address the lack of physicality from our D.

The Habs did not struggle when Diaz was injured. The Habs struggled mightily when Emelin was injured. That bit of reality should show what is needed on the Habs roster.
The problem with your approach is it's very short sighted and doesn't fit at all with the timeframe MB seems to have to build a top contender.

The lack of physicality on defense already has solutions in place and on the way.

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07-26-2013, 08:26 AM
  #165
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It must have been asked earlier on, but why a Raphael Diaz appreciation thread? He's just an average guy that will hit the trade market or waiver wire somewhere down the line.

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07-26-2013, 08:35 AM
  #166
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It must have been asked earlier on, but why a Raphael Diaz appreciation thread? He's just an average guy that will hit the trade market or waiver wire somewhere down the line.
If he is an average guy why would he be on the waiver wire? That makes no sense.

I can see him being traded, but I'd like him extended first, we need him until guys like Beaulieu are ready for a top 4 role in 2 years.

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07-26-2013, 08:54 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If he is an average guy why would he be on the waiver wire? That makes no sense.

I can see him being traded, but I'd like him extended first, we need him until guys like Beaulieu are ready for a top 4 role in 2 years.
I was being sarcastic, I read this thread and it looked like we were retiring his jersey. He is a guy that got easy minutes and got some pp time till PK got back and thats it.

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07-26-2013, 09:03 AM
  #168
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I was being sarcastic, I read this thread and it looked like we were retiring his jersey. He is a guy that got easy minutes and got some pp time till PK got back and thats it.
He improved his production and earned almost 3 minutes of ice time per night more with his play following a season in which he was considered one of the more promising NHL rookies. But whatever, right? Trends, schmends.

Why people are so quick to replace him among the 6/7 full-timers is beyond me.

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07-26-2013, 10:15 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
He improved his production and earned almost 3 minutes of ice time per night more with his play following a season in which he was considered one of the more promising NHL rookies. But whatever, right? Trends, schmends.

Why people are so quick to replace him among the 6/7 full-timers is beyond me.
If he is a valuable commodity, he will be valued by other teams looking for a player like him. Thats excellent because we need something different on our D core, we already have Markov, PK Subban as puck movers but what we need is a throwback to Lyle Odelin to help these guys out when the going gets rough. If that guy exsists, then lets send Diaz and someone else to get him. We have too much of one thing right now and that will get us nowhere. I love Emelin and like the future of Tinordi but we need a guy of that nature with NHL experience to balance out our D core. Diaz is the odd man out, so why not move him to greener pastures and get the guy we need.

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07-26-2013, 10:17 AM
  #170
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I was being sarcastic, I read this thread and it looked like we were retiring his jersey. He is a guy that got easy minutes and got some pp time till PK got back and thats it.
I don't find he got easy minutes. Maybe more last year once Markov and PK were back but his rookie year he played pretty tough minutes and was solid.

I find he gets heavily underrated here because he's 5'11" and smart and not a 6'4" grunt who hacks in front of the net.

I see him having a very solid NHL career playing about 20 minutes a night, helping on both PP and PK, plus being a well above average puck mover. A poor man's Keith.

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07-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
If he is a valuable commodity, he will be valued by other teams looking for a player like him. Thats excellent because we need something different on our D core, we already have Markov, PK Subban as puck movers but what we need is a throwback to Lyle Odelin to help these guys out when the going gets rough. If that guy exsists, then lets send Diaz and someone else to get him. We have too much of one thing right now and that will get us nowhere. I love Emelin and like the future of Tinordi but we need a guy of that nature with NHL experience to balance out our D core. Diaz is the odd man out, so why not move him to greener pastures and get the guy we need.
Marov is a UFA after next year and you need more than 2 PMD's so trading Diaz for a stay at home guy fills one hole creating another. Plus with Gorges, Tinordi, Emelin plus Pateryn/Ellis the "stay at home" mix will be fine going forward. If they want to sign a uFa to help with Emelin out, that's fine but makes no sense to trade assets for one. Fistric or Murray would be fine.

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07-26-2013, 10:24 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
If he is a valuable commodity, he will be valued by other teams looking for a player like him. Thats excellent because we need something different on our D core, we already have Markov, PK Subban as puck movers but what we need is a throwback to Lyle Odelin to help these guys out when the going gets rough. If that guy exsists, then lets send Diaz and someone else to get him. We have too much of one thing right now and that will get us nowhere. I love Emelin and like the future of Tinordi but we need a guy of that nature with NHL experience to balance out our D core. Diaz is the odd man out, so why not move him to greener pastures and get the guy we need.
Incredibly short-sighted. Markov is beyond "peak" effectiveness, and soon to be begging for a smaller role among the blueliners. Beaulieu is also at LEAST a year from being able to contribute nearly as efficiently offensively at the top level. So there's Subban moving the puck, and then there's... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't find he got easy minutes. Maybe more last year once Markov and PK were back but his rookie year he played pretty tough minutes and was solid.

I find he gets heavily underrated here because he's 5'11" and smart and not a 6'4" grunt who hacks in front of the net.

I see him having a very solid NHL career playing about 20 minutes a night, helping on both PP and PK, plus being a well above average puck mover. A poor man's Keith.
We are easily in better agreement here than the other thread.

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07-26-2013, 10:57 AM
  #173
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As long as Diaz is a cost-effective option and no worse than #6 on our depth chart, I vote keep him. He's all of that and more so far. But he gave me reason to hope for even more still with his pre-injury play last season. Will he be able to sustain or even build on that? I don't really know, but it's well worth waiting at least another year to gather more info. All you could possibly do is Sell Low on him at this point, no sense in doing that.

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07-26-2013, 11:03 AM
  #174
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Incredibly short-sighted. Markov is beyond "peak" effectiveness, and soon to be begging for a smaller role among the blueliners. Beaulieu is also at LEAST a year from being able to contribute nearly as efficiently offensively at the top level. So there's Subban moving the puck, and then there's... ?



We are easily in better agreement here than the other thread.
I agree with you 99% of the time. On this, I disagree. Stanley Cup contending teams address needs of the present and handle future needs when the future becomes the present.

The value of Diaz could land us a physical DMan this season. There will be opportunities next season to address Markov leaving.

Again, the Habs did not struggle when Diaz was out. The Habs struggled when we lost Emelin.

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07-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #175
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I agree with you 99% of the time. On this, I disagree. Stanley Cup contending teams address needs of the present and handle future needs when the future becomes the present.

The value of Diaz could land us a physical DMan this season. There will be opportunities next season to address Markov leaving.

Again, the Habs did not struggle when Diaz was out. The Habs struggled when we lost Emelin.
Drewiske, Emelin, and Tinordi will all be in the lineup this year, whether it be among the suited 6/7 or the press box. Subban is likely the only other puckmoving defenseman that we can expect to hold down 20 mins/night from pre- to post-season, and you might as well consider him a physical defenseman - 'cause he is. Diaz at just over $1 million is a luxury considering the role he fills, and how effectively he is proving in it. BG said it best, just a post ago.

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