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Sergey Tolchinsky NYR Bound? [Nope! Signs with Canes 8/22]

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07-25-2013, 10:35 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
5 foot 6 doesn't stop Rocco Grimaldi from being a legitimate NHL prospect, don't know why it would this kid.

If he has a big scoring year in the OHL this season teams will be all over him.
Rocco has a much better build.

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07-25-2013, 10:41 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Rocco has a much better build.
Physical development for some players happens later. Skill is harder to teach than how to eat.

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07-25-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Physical development for some players happens later. Skill is harder to teach than how to eat.
Tolchinsky doesn't have the build to develop all that much physically. Rocco does. You could even tell at the combine that Rocco could add a lot of weight/muscle (and he has). I don't see Tolchinksy being able to add anything (especially with the fact that he had trouble maintaining weight, even).

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07-25-2013, 10:56 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Tolchinsky doesn't have the build to develop all that much physically. Rocco does. You could even tell at the combine that Rocco could add a lot of weight/muscle (and he has). I don't see Tolchinksy being able to add anything (especially with the fact that he had trouble maintaining weight, even).
He's very young. He is skinny, like you said. He will develop physically as he matures.

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07-25-2013, 11:21 AM
  #80
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considering some of the minimal talent slugs we've offered contracts to in the past, this would seem to be a no brainer. this kid has talent oozing. his size/weight is a huge concern.

upside is a kid who can be an offensive catalyst who plays the pk, pp and can make a difference on the score sheet. downside is he never plays a minute in the nhl or gets hurt and never gets healthy.

if it doesnt pan out, his cost is only $$ not a pick or a player. i say offer him a deal and hope he finds a niche.

deck is stacked against him for sure, but who doesnt like a feel good story ?

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07-25-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
It's a new provision in the CBA. Us and Carolina get exclusive negotiating rights until September.
I might have to look that up. I'm just curious because undrafted NCAA forward Ludwig Karlsson attended camp with Nashville recently and the rumor is that he's going to sign with Ottawa today.

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07-25-2013, 12:09 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
I might have to look that up. I'm just curious because undrafted NCAA forward Ludwig Karlsson attended camp with Nashville recently and the rumor is that he's going to sign with Ottawa today.
That's a different situation as Karlsson isn't draft eligible anymore; he's a UFA. Tolchinsky could re-enter the draft next year if he doesn't sign with us or Carolina.

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07-25-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That's a different situation as Karlsson isn't draft eligible anymore; he's a UFA. Tolchinsky could re-enter the draft next year if he doesn't sign with us or Carolina.
Yeah, that's the only difference I could figure without reading through the CBA.

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07-25-2013, 12:25 PM
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Size isn't an issue for Zuccarello?
Its not for MSL. Then again it was an issue for Nigel Dawes.

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07-25-2013, 12:47 PM
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Its not for MSL. Then again it was an issue for Nigel Dawes.
I disagree that it's not an issue for MSL. Obviously he's a great player, but don't you think he'd be better if he was 6'1"?

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07-25-2013, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
He's very young. He is skinny, like you said. He will develop physically as he matures.
You're missing the point of what I am saying. Teams are betting on him not to develop because of his already documented problems even maintaining his current weight (let alone adding more). He's not the same body type as Grimaldi. Why do you think one went undrafted and one went in the high 2nd round? Both are extremely skilled offensively. Rocco, though, has a projectable frame.

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07-25-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
Its not for MSL. Then again it was an issue for Nigel Dawes.
Skating was more the issue for Dawes than anything else. He was little and had good size, but his skating was atrocious.

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07-25-2013, 01:30 PM
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I hope we sign him, though. Even with the 5% or so chance he has at becoming a top line player (and he's truly top 6 or bust). You shouldn't pass up on a talent like him.

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07-25-2013, 01:32 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You're missing the point of what I am saying. Teams are betting on him not to develop because of his already documented problems even maintaining his current weight (let alone adding more). He's not the same body type as Grimaldi. Why do you think one went undrafted and one went in the high 2nd round? Both are extremely skilled offensively. Rocco, though, has a projectable frame.
One is Russian? I am not saying he is Rocco Grimaldi. What I am saying is that for the skill and hockey IQ he brings, on top of his high end skating and elusiveness, he is exactly the type of player the Rangers SHOULD sign. If he doesn't work out, that's fine, but he is already one of the better undrafted players they will be able to find. Let him continue to work on his game and get him working out with the Rangers strength and conditioning guys.

He had no issue playing with the Rangers prospects in prospects camp. Obviously NHL players are bigger and stronger than those players but as he gets older, he is not going to get stronger and bigger? I HIGHLY doubt that.

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07-25-2013, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
One is Russian? I am not saying he is Rocco Grimaldi. What I am saying is that for the skill and hockey IQ he brings, on top of his high end skating and elusiveness, he is exactly the type of player the Rangers SHOULD sign. If he doesn't work out, that's fine, but he is already one of the better undrafted players they will be able to find. Let him continue to work on his game and get him working out with the Rangers strength and conditioning guys.

He had no issue playing with the Rangers prospects in prospects camp. Obviously NHL players are bigger and stronger than those players but as he gets older, he is not going to get stronger and bigger? I HIGHLY doubt that.
Tolch is already over here. He wouldn't drop out of the draft completely because he's Russian.

Again, look at their pictures. Rocco was always "thicker." He never had documented weight problems. And his body has filled out as most scouts thought it would. Tolch is a completely different story which is why offda and I are actually on the same page for once. That should tell you something.

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07-25-2013, 01:40 PM
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Is it too early to overly inflate the value of his rights in trade proposals?

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07-25-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Tolch is already over here. He wouldn't drop out of the draft completely because he's Russian.

Again, look at their pictures. Rocco was always "thicker." He never had documented weight problems. And his body has filled out as most scouts thought it would. Tolch is a completely different story which is why offda and I are actually on the same page for once. That should tell you something.
Many young Russians come over early and still leave. Burmistrov just did it.

He would never have gone super high, but if he was a 5th round talent, is it so crazy to believe that would make him drop 2-3 rounds? I don't think so.

I'm not arguing he is remotely similar to Grimaldi. All I am saying is that it is not unheard of for a kid at 17/18 to be skinny and then slowly add some strength and weight over the next 4 years.

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07-25-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Is it too early to overly inflate the value of his rights in trade proposals?
Never

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07-25-2013, 02:28 PM
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Elite prospects actually lists him as 5'9"

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=108653

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07-25-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Sign Stepan, Zuccc, Mashinter and this Crafty Dwarf as well. His Contract Will not count this year anyways. Next year we can unload some scrubs with expiring contracts and see what hoppens. He could become a free asset without costing anything really.See no harm in that.
There are however a lot of potential SIGNINGS for next year within the system now. Skjei, Nieves, Fogarty (doubtful), Andersson, Spelling come to mind.
Agreed although with Spelling moving back to Denmark I don't think he'll be growing in his development. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

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It's a better use of a contract than Jason Wilson or Michael Kantor.
Agreed 100%

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Would have no problem giving him a contract. High skill with great wheels and a great compete level. Maybe we luck out and he grows a couple inches. Ya never know.
This. I think he is a way better chance than taking one on Wilson & Kantor, like Fitzy said above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
5 foot 6 doesn't stop Rocco Grimaldi from being a legitimate NHL prospect, don't know why it would this kid.

If he has a big scoring year in the OHL this season teams will be all over him.
Yeah, but like Jonathan said earlier he does have a better frame than Tolchinsky. I don't think it matters much because I think Grimaldi & Tolchinsky are two different players, but ya never know.

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07-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Many young Russians come over early and still leave. Burmistrov just did it.

He would never have gone super high, but if he was a 5th round talent, is it so crazy to believe that would make him drop 2-3 rounds? I don't think so.

I'm not arguing he is remotely similar to Grimaldi. All I am saying is that it is not unheard of for a kid at 17/18 to be skinny and then slowly add some strength and weight over the next 4 years.
He was a 1st round talent on pure talent levels. 3rd round because of size, IMO.

And it would be very surprising to see someone like Tolch put on weight. Again, this kid has documented weight problems. We're talking about a kid who has struggled to maintain weight. It would be very surprising to see him fill out much if at all.

I'm willing to bank on him being able to compete without having to fill out much.

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07-25-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
Elite prospects actually lists him as 5'9"

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=108653
Jonathan.'s Prospects lists him at 6'4".

He's around 5'6" or so. He's nowhere near 5'9".

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07-25-2013, 02:48 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Is it too early to overly inflate the value of his rights in trade proposals?
Yes. We are currently in phase 1, inflating a player's abilities.

Phase 2 (trades) comes when the next shiny new toy comes along

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07-25-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He was a 1st round talent on pure talent levels. 3rd round because of size, IMO.

And it would be very surprising to see someone like Tolch put on weight. Again, this kid has documented weight problems. We're talking about a kid who has struggled to maintain weight. It would be very surprising to see him fill out much if at all.

I'm willing to bank on him being able to compete without having to fill out much.
He didn't really put up 1st round numbers. ~50 points in 65 games. That's good, not great. His size is why he fell. The Russian factor, I am sure, did not help.

Either way, he should be signed.

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07-25-2013, 02:54 PM
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Jonathan.'s Prospects lists him at 6'4".

He's around 5'6" or so. He's nowhere near 5'9".
Yeah I don't think he's that tall.

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