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Old
07-25-2013, 04:09 AM
  #126
The Zetterberg Era
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
An excellent goal-scoring prospect, one of our best goaltending prospects, and one of our best young scorers in exchange Hodgson and what will likely be only one season of Vanek? No thanks.
Don't see Mrazek listed there, so not sure what that was about.

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07-25-2013, 08:06 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
An excellent goal-scoring prospect, one of our best goaltending prospects, and one of our best young scorers in exchange Hodgson and what will likely be only one season of Vanek? No thanks.
Misread Mantha as Mrazek?

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07-25-2013, 08:19 AM
  #128
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07-25-2013, 08:44 AM
  #129
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I meant defense prospects. Lack of sleep will do this.

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07-25-2013, 09:30 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
Hossa in 2008 a prospect was Esposito..he was a top pens prospect, a first , armstrong and christensen were roater players (better than a b prospect) they also received dupuis which at the time he wasn't very good.

Penner in 11 Tuebert 1st 3rd...this one is a strech, Tuebert was a top prospect in a shallow pool 3rd is kinda close to b prospect . Nvm bad example.

Staal - Sutter I would say he was close to established and would be my a prospect, 8th overall and dumoulin.

Pronger -Lupul ,Sbisa, 09 1st 10 1st and a third.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
Jame, I hope you appreciate the time I put in looking up the trades, my wife is not the happiest
the only relevant trade you mentioned was the Hossa trade, and Esposito was NOT an "A Prospect"

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07-25-2013, 09:37 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
In the Kovalchuk trade Bergfors is rated similarly to Armia so that would be the A prospect, Cormier was the B prospect and New Jersey gave up the first too.
Bergfors was not an A prospect, Armia is

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07-25-2013, 10:07 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Bergfors was not an A prospect, Armia is
They were both ranked as 7b's according to hf, bergfors didnt pan out but if armia is an A prospect, so was Bergfors at the time.

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07-25-2013, 10:42 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Ace13 View Post
yes... actually I did.
You clearly didn't. I said that the only players I would move hodgson for are:
Seguin
RNH
Duchene
Kadri
Tavares

Then I said Obviously Buffalo would have to add substantially in order to acquire these players.
You have a brain don't you?USE IT.

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07-25-2013, 11:46 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
They were both ranked as 7b's according to hf, bergfors didnt pan out but if armia is an A prospect, so was Bergfors at the time.
Bergfors was 23 with 4 full seasons in the AHL and 1 in the NHL when he was traded. The shine had come off in a BIG way. He was not an "A Prospect" or "top prospect" or anything remotely close to that at the time he was traded.

Joel Armia just turned 20, and is the #32 overall prospect on HF.

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07-25-2013, 01:08 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Bergfors was 23 with 4 full seasons in the AHL and 1 in the NHL when he was traded. The shine had come off in a BIG way. He was not an "A Prospect" or "top prospect" or anything remotely close to that at the time he was traded.

Joel Armia just turned 20, and is the #32 overall prospect on HF.
The guy got traded with 27 points in 54 games. He was producing well in the NHL I don't know where you got the idea that he lost his "shine".

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07-25-2013, 01:51 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
The guy got traded with 27 points in 54 games. He was producing well in the NHL I don't know where you got the idea that he lost his "shine".
from watching him at the time, instead of looking up his stats on the internet

the guy failed to crack the big club year after year, and finally, when he was no longer waiver exempt, the devils were forced to keep him up.

he got to ride shotgun with zajac/parise. they did a good job pumping up his value early in the season, before dumping him.

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07-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
from watching him at the time, instead of looking up his stats on the internet

the guy failed to crack the big club year after year, and finally, when he was no longer waiver exempt, the devils were forced to keep him up.

he got to ride shotgun with zajac/parise. they did a good job pumping up his value early in the season, before dumping him.
hmmm you're probably right about that, but with his increased value I still feel he had about the same value as an A prospect.

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07-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
hmmm you're probably right about that, but with his increased value I still feel he had about the same value as an A prospect.
sorry, but that's just totally crazy...

Nic Bergfors at 23 had "about the same value" as Galchenyuk, Yakupov, Tarasenko, Huberdeau, etc????

Bergfors wasn't even in HFs Top 50 when he was traded....

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07-25-2013, 02:24 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
sorry, but that's just totally crazy...

Nic Bergfors at 23 had "about the same value" as Galchenyuk, Yakupov, Tarasenko, Huberdeau, etc????

Bergfors wasn't even in HFs Top 50 when he was traded....
Maybe not as high as them but I think he had similar value at the time to what Armia has now. We can use HF's top 50 if you want, but if we take that ranking into consideration I want to use their player rating system as well, as both are/were ranked exactly the same.

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07-25-2013, 02:43 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Maybe not as high as them but I think he had similar value at the time to what Armia has now. We can use HF's top 50 if you want, but if we take that ranking into consideration I want to use their player rating system as well, as both are/were ranked exactly the same.

you can use whatever you want

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07-25-2013, 03:06 PM
  #141
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If Vanek was 26 instead of 29 I'd take it

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07-25-2013, 03:42 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post

you can use whatever you want
Well if we're going to use HF's top 50, why can't we use their ranking system as well? If anything what you're arguing is that Armia isn't an A prospect.

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07-25-2013, 04:26 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
You clearly didn't. I said that the only players I would move hodgson for are:
Seguin
RNH
Duchene
Kadri
Tavares

Then I said Obviously Buffalo would have to add substantially in order to acquire these players.
You have a brain don't you?USE IT.
Wow, that's a little bit of an overreaction for me failing to read a part of your post. I admitted I didn't see it. Take a chill pill big guy. This isn't even a real trade proposal, so try not taking it so seriously

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07-25-2013, 04:29 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Well if we're going to use HF's top 50, why can't we use their ranking system as well? If anything what you're arguing is that Armia isn't an A prospect.
Agree, at the time Bergfors was pretty highly thought of, hard to remember now, but he was impressive and had a strong start in the NHL before this trade. He was supposed to be the major future asset and I have to say I was a believer back then, sometimes things go sideways.

He was more a proven commodity in the NA, I am sure a lot of GMs were comfortable with his projections.

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07-25-2013, 04:55 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Maybe not as high as them but I think he had similar value at the time to what Armia has now. We can use HF's top 50 if you want, but if we take that ranking into consideration I want to use their player rating system as well, as both are/were ranked exactly the same.
Bergfors was never anywhere near the prospect Armia is. He was a nice young player who many thought if he reached his ceiling could be a top 6 player. Some of his luster had definetely worn off when he was traded. Armia has the potential and skillset necessary to be a top line player at the nhl level. No offense to the way HF rates players, but it seems like some of their ratings for probability of success and talent scores are pulled out of a hat. I put much more stock into a list taking the 50 best prospects in the game and ranking them but hey to each his own.

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07-25-2013, 05:06 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Bergfors was never anywhere near the prospect Armia is. He was a nice young player who many thought if he reached his ceiling could be a top 6 player. Some of his luster had definetely worn off when he was traded. Armia has the potential and skillset necessary to be a top line player at the nhl level. No offense to the way HF rates players, but it seems like some of their ratings for probability of success and talent scores are pulled out of a hat. I put much more stock into a list taking the 50 best prospects in the game and ranking them but hey to each his own.
I agree that sometimes their rating system is suspect, but i don't know why, I felt Bergfors was justified at the time. He had all the tools going for him, what his issue was, was his work ethic. I'm actually surprised he never made it.
Anyhow back to the topic I don't really think Vanek would be a good fit for Detroit mainly due to the cap. I think a deal focused around Nyquist and a first would be fair, but the deal would be tough to make since it kills their cap situation.

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07-25-2013, 06:09 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
I agree that sometimes their rating system is suspect, but i don't know why, I felt Bergfors was justified at the time. He had all the tools going for him, what his issue was, was his work ethic. I'm actually surprised he never made it.
Anyhow back to the topic I don't really think Vanek would be a good fit for Detroit mainly due to the cap. I think a deal focused around Nyquist and a first would be fair, but the deal would be tough to make since it kills their cap situation.
Nyqvist and a first seems like a pretty good value to me.

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07-27-2013, 10:36 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Ace13 View Post
Wow, that's a little bit of an overreaction for me failing to read a part of your post. I admitted I didn't see it. Take a chill pill big guy. This isn't even a real trade proposal, so try not taking it so seriously
You said you saw that part, make up your mind.

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07-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by SlugLife978 View Post
Did you miss the part where he said "obviously Bufalo would have to add substantially to most of these players"?

He's pointing out that Buffalo has absolutely zero incentive to move Hodgson unless it's as part of a package deal for a better center.
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yes... actually I did.
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
You said you saw that part, make up your mind.
No, I said I missed it from the beginning. The first guy asked if I "missed the part" where you said BUF would have to add substantially, and my response was "yes... actually I did" thus admitting I didn't see it.

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07-28-2013, 12:10 PM
  #150
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No, I said I missed it from the beginning. The first guy asked if I "missed the part" where you said BUF would have to add substantially, and my response was "yes... actually I did" thus admitting I didn't see it.
wow I'm an idiot, my bad bud.

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